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DR Blues
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:25:00 -
[1]
Is buying cheap (free or stolen: Roughly 35% of the market.) ferregel en sell it for high prices not an exploit? I mean people getting banned from using an moon mining exploit and with the stolen goods still on the market other people making huge profit. In my region i can only see 1 reseller of ferrogel for high prices. So the rich is getting richer from (free . In my country the man that buys the stuff from the thief is just as bad as the thief. Ironic?
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Orogaldeo
Amarr Extreme Solutions Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:27:00 -
[2]
Market Speculation is not considered exploiting. Creating Stuff with Nothing starting from Nothing is considered an Exploit. ________________________________
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar Ninjas N Pirates Wong Thong Crew
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:28:00 -
[3]
Evading concord is an exploit
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:28:00 -
[4]
You have to prove that the buyer of the stolen goods indeed knew the goods were stolen, which brings the problem.
What would you have CCP do? Remove all the items, transfer all ISKs made by illegal goods back, also remove all items bought with that ISK made etc etc.
You see the problem
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Haywoode Jablome
The Templars Knights
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:28:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Haywoode Jablome on 16/12/2008 10:29:00
Originally by: DR Blues Is buying cheap (free or stolen: Roughly 35% of the market.) ferregel en sell it for high prices not an exploit? I mean people getting banned from using an moon mining exploit and with the stolen goods still on the market other people making huge profit. In my region i can only see 1 reseller of ferrogel for high prices. So the rich is getting richer from (free . In my country the man that buys the stuff from the thief is just as bad as the thief. Ironic?
In my country too, and once caught, the judges rule as simply as this: If your goods are this cheap, you had to know that it is faul play...
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Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:33:00 -
[6]
No, it's not an exploit. The minerals are irrevocably entwined in the market now and removing them would be pure folly.
Unless your country is New Eden in a fictional spaceship game i think that has little bearing on the situation.
Vote for Karille next CSM cycle. Forum players need a voice too. |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:33:00 -
[7]
Wait, wait, I got one. In my country we elected Bush twice.
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Euriti
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Wait, wait, I got one. In my country we elected Bush twice.
Atleast he can dodge shoes.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.12.16 10:34:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 16/12/2008 10:38:44
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Wait, wait, I got one. In my country we elected Bush twice.
Yeah but, you know there's an old saying in Tennessee, I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says; elect me once, shame on... shame on you. Elect me... you can't get elected again.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.16 11:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DR Blues Is buying cheap .. not an exploit
First, I'll assume there is no moral difference whether they buy illegal goods for own use, storage, or further sale.
Also, in game one ferrogel is identical to other, which leads to conclusion that about all recent T2 mods/ships requiring that material are made partly from illegal stuff.
You still want to suggest that all people using those T2 mods/ships are also exploiters, and should be punished (now that is has become know that their items do contain illegal parts)?
If you just want to argue "rich getting rich is bad", "Eve shouldn't have capitalism", should focus on that and don't confuse the issue by talking about the ferrogel exloit.
Or, more on point: obviously the producers and speculators trading with Ferrogel aren't thinking 'ooh last chance to get those illegal goods', but rather 'seems Ferrogel is now cheaper than it will be in the future, so better buy some'.
-Lasse who hasn't traded with Ferrogel
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Wee Trade
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Posted - 2008.12.16 11:43:00 -
[11]
i made 10 billion thanks to the ferrogel this week :D, please remove all the cheaters so i can make even MOAH
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DR Blues
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Posted - 2008.12.16 13:36:00 -
[12]
I dont mind people make isk out of this. It's only strange that people are banned for the exploit while other people still benefit from it.
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Kainoss
Gallente Phantom Squad Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.12.16 14:54:00 -
[13]
It is only illegal to KNOWINGLY purchase from a thief. I am sure you have purchased a Tech 2 item at some point in your EvE time. How about we punish you too? If we went by your definition of justice every person that has ever bought Tech 2 would get banned. ------------
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2008.12.16 14:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DR Blues Is buying cheap (free or stolen: Roughly 35% of the market.)
Okay, how can I tell which is the 65% of ferrogel that isn't from an exploit? I certainly can't do it by price, becuase it now costs considerably more than it did a week or so ago.
Buying low and selling high isn't an exploit. It's trading.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2008.12.16 15:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DR Blues Is buying cheap (free or stolen: Roughly 35% of the market.) ferregel en sell it for high prices not an exploit? I mean people getting banned from using an moon mining exploit and with the stolen goods still on the market other people making huge profit. In my region i can only see 1 reseller of ferrogel for high prices. So the rich is getting richer from (free . In my country the man that buys the stuff from the thief is just as bad as the thief. Ironic?
Well, let's see here....
1)This post shows a COMPLETE LACK of understanding of both capitalism. This sort of thing happens in Real life ALL THE TIME - whether or not the items in question are "stolen" or not.
2) For what you are talking about, there has to exist some way to TRACE the stolen items. They must be IDENTIFIABLE as the stolen goods in question, unless you live in one of those new-fascist countries where people are guilty until proven innocent. Gerrogel, since it is consumed in the making of t2 items, is NOT IDENTIFIABLE.
3_) Again, unless you live in a new-fascist state, you cannot penalize someone without proof. BBP has banned those they could prove were using the exploit - they cannot prove who has "benefitted" as the item in question is not identifiable. Can't penalize the honest people along with the uilty,,,
4) Which brings us back to the market. The ferrogel is NOT IDENTIFIABLE. There is NO WAY anyone, even those at CCP, can identify where each particular bit came from. there's "stolen" mixed in with the "honest" , and no way to tell them apart.
Because of that "anonymynity", what you suggest isn't possible. Quit trying to create a lynch mob - yoy won't like the fallout.
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.16 15:18:00 -
[16]
Today's word-of-the-day: Fungible.
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Khemul Zula
Amarr Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.12.16 15:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Khemul Zula on 16/12/2008 15:42:52 EVE has no price-gouging laws.
Also if we are going to use real life comparisons... In the US if you buy from a stolen item without any knowledge of the item being stolen, all the police can do is seize the item. If you sell it to someone else before the police find it and that person also had no idea about the theft it becomes a fully legal sale and there is nothing that can be done. All the police can do is ask nicely for it to be returned.
There you go, by now multiple people have bought the ferrogel without any idea whether it was stolen or not.
Originally by: DR Blues Ironic?
No. Please never use that word again
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.12.16 15:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Haywoode Jablome
In my country too, and once caught, the judges rule as simply as this: If your goods are this cheap, you had to know that it is faul play...
Who says they sold the ferrogel cheap?
T2 ships and mods are a fraction of the price they were when I started playing the game. OMG they must all be stolen! Quick ban everyone!
--
* Brace for Impact! * |
Iria Ahrens
Amarr 101st Space Marine Force The Leathernecks
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:41:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 17/12/2008 01:44:49
Originally by: Haywoode Jablome Edited by: Haywoode Jablome on 16/12/2008 10:29:00
Originally by: DR Blues Is buying cheap (free or stolen: Roughly 35% of the market.) ferregel en sell it for high prices not an exploit? I mean people getting banned from using an moon mining exploit and with the stolen goods still on the market other people making huge profit. In my region i can only see 1 reseller of ferrogel for high prices. So the rich is getting richer from (free . In my country the man that buys the stuff from the thief is just as bad as the thief. Ironic?
In my country too, and once caught, the judges rule as simply as this: If your goods are this cheap, you had to know that it is faul play...
Wow, you guys live in scary countries. Price indicates NOTHING of the sort. There are several sound reasons for someone to legitimately sell an item at a cheaper rate--such as liquidating assets. Sometimes a better opportunity becomes apparent and the opportunity cost selling one item at a given price is not worth using a fraction of the capital elsewhere.
If you walk into a bookstore and they have a bargin bin with books priced at $29.99 selling for $1 to $3.99 each. That doesn't mean they were stolen,
Guilt is a matter of intent. If you ignore this and presume guilt by association, well then. Everyone is guilty, INCLUDING YOU. --
Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Evading concord is an exploit
black op seem cool until this happened
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Dyaven
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Evading concord is an exploit
black op seem cool until this happened [/quote
Evading Concord has always been an exploit.
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dyaven
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Evading concord is an exploit
black op seem cool until this happened [/quote
Evading Concord has always been an exploit.
it ccp spoiling the fun, imange the cried from empire bears being sneaked upon,
although a convert cyno to be used in empire would be sooo coool as well as cyno jammed system <--- please impliment this
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Cpt Lollercakes
Warriors of COAD
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Posted - 2008.12.17 01:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DR Blues
In my country the man that buys the stuff from the thief is just as bad as the thief. Ironic?
Borat plays eve?
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Roymundo
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Posted - 2008.12.17 02:17:00 -
[24]
whats the odds that all the guys here who complain that dirty isk and goods should not be removed from the market are in on it themselves knowingly?
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 03:00:00 -
[25]
Everyday miners and missionrunners create stuff out of nothing, isn't that an exploit aswell ?
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:00:00 -
[26]
I agree with the OP.
People with many, many billions of free capital (the rich) are simply benefitting from an exploit. They are dealing in goods derived from exploits, and so profitting from an exploit.
It's a bit like stealing ore from a macrominer every 30 minutes. So what if you never mined it, you're benefitting directly from a EULA violation.
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F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:09:00 -
[27]
Whine and so on and so on, it never stops, tbh do you really care. After all for you Eve will be a distant memory in 6months
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Khemul Zula
Amarr Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Taua Roqa I agree with the OP.
People with many, many billions of free capital (the rich) are simply benefitting from an exploit. They are dealing in goods derived from exploits, and so profitting from an exploit.
It's a bit like stealing ore from a macrominer every 30 minutes. So what if you never mined it, you're benefitting directly from a EULA violation.
But if you steal ore every 10 minutes, it is entirely fair. Odd isn't it.
Also if you ever bought tritanium, pyerite, isogen, mexallon, megacyte, nocxium, zydrine, or any spaceship you have benefitted from a EULA violation.
This is why I prefer to sit in a station all day. Undocking in anything but a pod means I'm benefitting from EULA violations.
------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. |
Xioden Acap
Lightspeed Enterprises Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:15:00 -
[29]
You can also bet that the people who were banned won't lose anything beside the character name. I woulnd't be surprised if since being banned they're all back on newly purchased characters that are at the same point (if not further) than their mains.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.17 04:20:00 -
[30]
whatever the exploiters sold the the ferregel it became the going rate in that it apparently was happening for a while. But if you have knowledge of someone specifically still using an eploit you should petition it.. otherwise this post is nothing but speculative conspiracy theory not based in any fact.
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