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General Newbold
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:11:00 -
[1]
hi
recently i have purchased some rig blueprint copies
but i cannot understand how i can possibly make a profit from these
lets take a example - the salvage tackle rig
to make these i need 80 armor plates - the salvage tackles sells for less than the cost of the plates?
so why do people bothing manufacturing items when th ecomponents can be sold for more?
please give me some pointers?
cheers
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Tesha Muron
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:23:00 -
[2]
They set up buy orders that pay out an amount they can afford and still make a profit with. So instead of buying plates for 400k, (example only) they set a buy order buying plates for 200K. Then missioners and salvagers sell them to you. Assuming you are the Highest paying source that is close enough.
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Mia Morningstar
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:24:00 -
[3]
last time i checked rigs manufacturing (at least some of the most popular rigs). you can make profit only manufacturing them if your salvage comes from buy orders (pretty much reselling salvage). 
and in most cases not worth reprocessing... (even with 100% refine and 0% taxes).
disclaimer: your experience may vary
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:26:00 -
[4]
Try to buy the salvage needed for as cheap as possible. Buy orders in the correct place is propably your best bet, or salvage some of what you need yourself.
Train skills that allow production with fewer resources. Production efficiency would be one of them. I'm not a producer, so I can't give you specific advice on the skills. You can open the character sheet, set it to show all skills and look under industry to see what skills might help you. Also read this and the industry section for more info.
Research the blueprint for material efficiency. Most specialized producers propably produce from blueprints that have been researched, so their cost of producing will be lower than yours.
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Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:31:00 -
[5]
Just because you buy something for 200k doesn't mean it isn't worth 400k.
If it's cheaper to buy them than it is to build - buy them, reprocess them, sell the salvage.
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Pwett
Founder
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Mia Morningstar
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:41:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Pwett
Just because you buy something for 200k doesn't mean it isn't worth 400k.
If it's cheaper to buy them than it is to build - buy them, reprocess them, sell the salvage.
reprocessing rigs isn't worth. (at least not where i live). rigs sell price is usually lower than the sell price of salvage from reprocessing.
free market sticking it into my a**
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Fish Hunter
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Posted - 2008.12.16 20:41:00 -
[7]
Place buy orders, look at the volumes that are being sold.
DO NOT sell for less than you can make it for. If the volumes being sold at a low price are low then it might be fine to set your own higher price. Or sell it somewhere else. Do whatever makes you the most isk.
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LordSax7648
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Posted - 2008.12.17 17:26:00 -
[8]
For the obvious, make sure your manufactoring skills are there (PE-5).
Second research the BPO to a me of 10. It will reduce your waste from 10% to 1% effectively cutting the cost to build.
Third you'll need to obtain your salvage using buy orders. I never buy salvage off the market, let the sellers come to you and pay what you deem is reasonable.
Keep in mind, in some regions certain rigs are going to be more competitive and therefore have lower margin and salvage may be harder and/or more expensive to aquire.
As with most items you'll need to do a bit of research.
LS
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.17 18:44:00 -
[9]
I hate the way manufacturing is going where you have to set up buy orders in order to do anything. I hate micro-managing orders.
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Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.17 19:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: nether void
I hate the way manufacturing is going where you have to set up buy orders in order to do anything. I hate micro-managing orders.
You don't. The profits are out there, but you can't simply decide 'hey I'm going to make xxx, that sounds cool' and expect to make a profit.
To make a point, there's a certain F.O.F. missile out there that you can build with a 0 ML print and PE 4 and STILL retail at double the production cost. That's what I started on until I had the wallet to make a larger variety of products and more expensive ones, but each time I did the research.
If rigs aren't profitable from mats in your region, source mats from other regions or sell the rigs in more profitable regions. If you still can't make money, move on and find something else to make.
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.17 19:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Callista Omenswarm
Originally by: nether void
I hate the way manufacturing is going where you have to set up buy orders in order to do anything. I hate micro-managing orders.
You don't. The profits are out there, but you can't simply decide 'hey I'm going to make xxx, that sounds cool' and expect to make a profit.
To make a point, there's a certain F.O.F. missile out there that you can build with a 0 ML print and PE 4 and STILL retail at double the production cost. That's what I started on until I had the wallet to make a larger variety of products and more expensive ones, but each time I did the research.
If rigs aren't profitable from mats in your region, source mats from other regions or sell the rigs in more profitable regions. If you still can't make money, move on and find something else to make.
I see what you're saying, and agree. It is sad, though, that some markets are that tight.
I ran the numbers last night on battlecruisers, and the average profit per ship sale was like 2 million. LOL 2mil? I can make 2mil by shooting 2 rats. And I can shoot those two rats without doing a ton of logistical work or managing buy orders, etc etc. Seems like a lot of effort for 2mil.
But yeah there are other things to make. Sometimes I have a hard time finding something that's profitable that I WANT to make, but that's kind of a luxury really. Like who really wants to make small armor repairers (for example)? 'Hi yeah Shrapnel Industries: Makers of fine small armor repairers, med cap batteries, and some other random 'lately' item...we just have to sell what we can'.
I know it's not like there's a choice sometimes, but more and more I wish there was some kind of 'investment' or time requirement to get into producing some product, so people would be forced to specialize more, thereby diversifying the production population. So that you could have a business that, like real life, only has the specialty to compete in one or two markets. Boeing makes airliners and some space stuff. They don't also make tanks, cars, and TVs. Something like that is what I mean.
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Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.17 19:47:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Callista Omenswarm on 17/12/2008 19:47:35
Originally by: nether void
I ran the numbers last night on battlecruisers, and the average profit per ship sale was like 2 million. LOL 2mil? I can make 2mil by shooting 2 rats.
Yes, but in the time it takes you to undock, warp and shoot those rats, I can set up buy orders, run production jobs and put up my sell orders.
And it takes just as long for me to run a 1 run job, as a 100 run job. That's 200 mil for your 2mil. (yeah ok not an exact comparison, but making a point)
Sure, it requires a lot of prep work, you'll want to find a local mining corp to supply mins on a regular basis so you aren't at the mercy of your buy orders. Same for finding someone willing to take the finished products off your hands. But that's entirely the point, manufacturing isn't a path to 'free isk'. If you pew-pew there's time and research to be done in finding the best ship for the task, the best fit, sourcing the right modules, etc. The same goes for manufacturing.
Sure, the actual warp-target-boom takes no time, but then neither does running a production job. If that's all it took, then we'd all be out in 0.0 downing high-bounty BSes.
Originally by: nether void
Like who really wants to make small armor repairers (for example)?
Hey, that's great. The less producers there are of such items the more those who do can charge for them.
The more items you make, the more isk is incoming. Sure on small T1 items it may only be 1,000ISK at a time, but that's money that'll come in if I log in or not. And you'll be surprised at how quickly 100, 200, 500 units of that stuff moves. Making the lower end stuff actually makes a LOT of sense, because the audience for a Small Shield Booster I is many times that of a Cargohold Optimization II.
Originally by: nether void
but more and more I wish there was some kind of 'investment' or time requirement to get into producing some product, so people would be forced to specialize more, thereby diversifying the production population.
A time requirement? It already exists.
Manufacturers have to spend time to researching what items sell well in different regions to maximize profits.
Don't want to do that? Then make the obvious stuff (Ravens), but be prepared to compete for minimal margins.
While specialized production skills would be nice, it won't solve your problem as invention and T2 already has this and STILL people complain that xxx or yyy doesn't make money and the answer is the same, do the research and the profits reveal themselves.
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nether void
Caldari
Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.17 21:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Callista Omenswarm
Good reply.
What I mean is investment where you can't just switch on a whim to making some other product. Like you could train into ships, or shields, or armor, or etc, and you would be competative in that basket, but you couldn't just switch from armor to shields quickly. That way everyone isn't able to basically supply anything. Sure Raven sales are still going to be tight. They're very high visibility items, but at the same time you could then create a 'make believe' company for fun, and still put in a similar amount of effort but pretty much know you can sell your wares.
I don't know. I see the pros and cons to both systems (pro to 'anyone can make' means tighter markets and a very dynamic fluctuation for supply [can easily follow shifts in demand]), but the system I was talking about seems like more fun from a player perspective.
Although I guess I could just get into Tech II, and I would have what I'm talking about. lol How long does it take to skill up to create Tech II items? Like a week or like a couple months?
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Callista Omenswarm
Astronautical Engineering
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Posted - 2008.12.17 21:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Callista Omenswarm on 17/12/2008 21:33:10
Originally by: nether void
but pretty much know you can sell your wares.
I think you just hit on the other problem here. I mean T2 already has the skill reqs and you see the same issues here as with T1 production (well ok, before T2 mats shot up in price).
The issue being that prices are so low because you can't sell for all the other manufacturers making that item. Stronger and more extensive skill requirements still won't stop 'lazy' manufacturers picking a single item or small subset and mass producing them to the point of obliterating profit margins.
Ravens are items that certain people will max out their production lines on 24/7. Skilling production of T1 won't solve this, so you'll still have the same number of people producing the same number of BSs for the same tiny margins (it'll just take them a month or two to learn those new skills).
The difference is that right now, you can look elsewhere for the items that DO still maintain a healthy profit and start churning them out ASAP. Can you imagine how much of a ****-ache it'd be if you then learn you trained the wrong skills and it'll be another month or two until can make the items that do make decent profits?
(oh and honestly, with T2 material prices the way they are, now is definately NOT the time to get into T2 production)
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Dennmoth Ferdier
Scoopex
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Posted - 2008.12.17 21:48:00 -
[15]
I dunno about you guys, but I make 5 mil profit off of every rig I sell. And I sell quite a few.
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Heart for isk, Balls for risk. |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.18 09:53:00 -
[16]
All depends where you sell it and buy it.
You can easily get over 500% profit on some products just because you sell them in the right area. Of course it doesn't last too long when others find out (unless it's an area where not many are willing to go...).
Usually the cheaper the product the better the profits. Of course gaining 100isk with a 500% profit doesn't really do much, unless you have masses. Basically it all comes to profit %, not the ISK amount.
Stop whining. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.12.18 11:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 18/12/2008 11:33:27
Almost all of the effort in industry is in determining what to build to gain the most profit. Actually putting on the jobs and buying/selling is only a fraction of it. If it was easier profits would be worse.
Of course the same is true of trade.
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