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DeliaPrescot
Balintol
19
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Posted - 2012.04.12 07:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well that is quite interesting. CCP is going to allow Deadspace/Officer/Faction on the normal market with this expansion. http://www.evenews24.com/2012/04/12/k162-space-inferno-escalation-test-server-changes/
That will change a lot, no more easy remote contract trading, personal standings will have a huge impact because most of the stuff is expansive. On the other hand no more easy price checks universe wide. The big question is which way are the prices going. When Faction ships made the market prices went down and haven't really recovered yet, will it be the same or worse?
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
319
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Posted - 2012.04.12 07:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
alllot of contract traders are going to be unhappy with this. I nsde billions in contract flipping. aftet this patch this isnt possible anymore (killing proffesion) and its alot more sensitive for bots to be active in. CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
snake pies
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
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Posted - 2012.04.12 07:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
good change, prices have already dropped in anticipation |
malaire
339
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Posted - 2012.04.12 08:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
I hope that some of my current competitors will move to those items, making my current market area have less competition. New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
NiM Cal
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.13 14:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sad times, contract trading has been a niche where casual traders (who don't bot), could make a tidy profit and manipulate prices/have fun, even in busy hubs. Shame to see EVE getting dumbed down further.
Prices will drop like a stone when it goes live, the markup on contracts is often huge and you don't have the "0.01" style undercutting going on every few seconds. |
Herman Klaus
Touched By Klaus
46
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Posted - 2012.04.13 16:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
From someone who has made billions on contract trading, this is a stupid change. Officer mod trading is fun and this will make it just like any other market item. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
298
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Whereas now we can just potter around on contracts, shortly we will all have to play the ******** 0.01 game to be able to trade in faction items in Jita? Great move CCP in killing another mini-profession, **** you too. |
DeliaPrescot
Balintol
19
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fango Mango wrote:My background . . . move a medium amount of faction mods on the contract system. Maybe 300/week across the trade hubs
Will contracts be useless if you can buy faction/deadspace off the market? Yes. I think the contract market for these items will move to market interface. The market interface is much easier to use and has much larger visibility.
What are some of the side affects on faction mods? The contract market is where smart/enterprising Eve players take advantage of Stupid/Lazy eve players. Even more so than the normal market.
1) As soon as market data is available for every faction item you can forget about "good" LP store items. If you remove the barrier of having to do your own research and know the market, then just anyone can cash in on the "good" LP store items. LP is going to be worth what is it is for ammo and not an ISK more.
2) Prices will begin to make sense (There are lots of pirate faction items that cost less than the T2 equiv despite being much better). With more visibility, I expect these inconsistencies to go away
3) Volume will increase. Now even stupider people can figure out how to buy faction items. It will be cheaper to sell (.25% brokers fee for 3 months as opposed to 1% for 2 weeks), so there will be much more for sale "on the market" in every region.
4) With the increase in volume I expect the ISK/LP floor to increase a bit. So if you are moving tens of millions of LP from running level 5s you should see an increase in exchange rate. If you are running L4s and "cherry pick" the best LP items you will see your profits decrease because everything will trade at or near the ISK/LP floor.
How can you make ISK on this change?
1) Prices are going to spike as soon as they are added to the market. Then drop off drastically. After the initial spike, LP value is going to drop below 1500 ISK/LP for even the best items. So make sure you unload them now or during the initial spike.
2) Prices for items that trade at the LP floor are going to go up (I have no feel for how much, I would guess the gallente LP floor would move from ~500 Isk/Lp to 600-700 Isk/LP as increased volume puts more pressure on LP suppliers. Consider investing in Antimatter Ammo/Navy Megathron. Similar opportunities should be available for Caldari/Amarr but I am not as familiar with their market. Minmattar LP is currently overpriced so I would avoid investing in those items.
3) Sell Faction items in non-hub regions (duh!!!)
4) Invest in the "under-priced" faction items. If it costs less than T2 trades on the market. You're probably going to be able to make a pretty penny when it moves to the market interface. .
Actually a nice summary. I think the prices for the more common LP shop's will crash hard but not so hard for the more uncommon ones. The times of +3k ISK/LP items are more or less over and i predicted 1.5k ISK/LP for the end of the year anyway. I guess it will be a little earlier now. The questions is can you compare the faction ship price crash after they moved to the market with the modul market. LP shop modules have usually a higher volume and i estimate that the volume will increase and level out the losses due to moving to the market interface. Deadspace and Offcier items are a whole different story, i think they will loose about 30% to 40% of its curernt price, it is just to easy to make a sell order for 3months and wait for the item to be bought and their volume is to low to level out the price drop.
The 3month orders are the main reason prices will crash and of course the constant undercutting but both can be level out due to increased volume. We will see. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
620
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Glad this has finally come. Less spam, less cluttered contracts system, more efficient market. |
RAP ACTION HERO
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.04.13 17:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
more volume? |
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DeliaPrescot
Balintol
19
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Posted - 2012.04.13 18:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yep, more volume as it will be easier for the casual player to find the Faction/Deadspace stuff on the market interface and because lower prices = more will be bought. Faction items prices will be heavily depending on supply and demand, Faction items form common LP Shops will have a hard time, Faction items from more uncommon LP Shops will do fine.
Tag prices could get funny soon.... |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
298
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Posted - 2012.04.13 18:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
DeliaPrescot wrote: Tag prices could get funny soon....
Tag prices are already funny - the whole tag drop mechanism is really really ******. I mean, just look at missions offered in Gallente space (whose LP stores require Caldari tags): most of the anti-faction missions offered there are against Amarr (quite useless, unless one is trading tags with other collectors). By allowing these faction items onto the market and to be traded just like any other item, as you say, volume will increase and prices will go down.
I have created a thread in Assembly Hall to hopefully try and look at this situation, if you'd care to look at it and discuss it further there I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65130&find=unread)
Yes, I personally will be inconvenienced by this change: not just because CCP is taking away my easy-oasey business, and not even that profit on high volume/low margin items will be reduced even further - I'm more upset, to speak frankly, about the fact that CCP is limiting the sandbox feature even further in the guise of 'streamlining' by removing this profession. |
Aina Sasaki
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
7
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Posted - 2012.04.13 23:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shame I guess, though... I guess this just means more of my market orders will be tied up as I try to reap profits off this. Bwee... - Rei |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
170
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Posted - 2012.04.13 23:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
This is literally what I think of this change: http://i.imgur.com/z58ph.gif |
Eddie Laydon
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2012.04.14 01:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gorki Andropov wrote: Yes, I personally will be inconvenienced by this change: not just because CCP is taking away my easy-oasey business, and not even that profit on high volume/low margin items will be reduced even further - I'm more upset, to speak frankly, about the fact that CCP is limiting the sandbox feature even further in the guise of 'streamlining' by removing this profession.
Nothing is being limited, CCP is not removing the contract system, they are just making it easier for people to trade. If you dont want to play the 0.01 game you will still have the option to set up contracts.
In my opinion this should have been done a long time ago. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
145
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Posted - 2012.04.14 04:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like the idea of the blue and green sub groups but I'm no dummy.
They want the tax sink on all those billions traded for Officer fits. |
Gizan
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
24
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Posted - 2012.04.14 04:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ocih wrote:I like the idea of the blue and green sub groups but I'm no dummy.
They want the tax sink on all those billions traded for Officer fits.
they already pay a percentage when they put up the contract. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
170
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Posted - 2012.04.14 05:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Not only that but I'm pretty sure that contracts are actually less affected by standings/skills than market orders are. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
210
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Posted - 2012.04.14 06:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gizan wrote:Ocih wrote:I like the idea of the blue and green sub groups but I'm no dummy.
They want the tax sink on all those billions traded for Officer fits. they already pay a percentage when they put up the contract.
Item Exchange is 10K Broker, 0 tax for any contract I have ever done. Anything over a Mill and you are below 1% to run a contract. Not sure how you do contracting.
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malaire
342
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Posted - 2012.04.14 07:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Gizan wrote:Ocih wrote:I like the idea of the blue and green sub groups but I'm no dummy.
They want the tax sink on all those billions traded for Officer fits. they already pay a percentage when they put up the contract. Item Exchange is 10K Broker, 0 tax for any contract I have ever done. Anything over a Mill and you are below 1% to run a contract. Not sure how you do contracting. That is for private contract which is indeed cheap - public contracts cost a lot more. (I don't know exactly how much since I don't use contracts that much.) New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
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Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
300
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Posted - 2012.04.14 08:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Eddie Laydon wrote:Gorki Andropov wrote: Yes, I personally will be inconvenienced by this change: not just because CCP is taking away my easy-oasey business, and not even that profit on high volume/low margin items will be reduced even further - I'm more upset, to speak frankly, about the fact that CCP is limiting the sandbox feature even further in the guise of 'streamlining' by removing this profession.
Nothing is being limited, CCP is not removing the contract system, they are just making it easier for people to trade. If you dont want to play the 0.01 game you will still have the option to set up contracts. In my opinion this should have been done a long time ago.
They are effectively removing the last reason to earn a living through contract trading. What will be left to trade (on a large-enough, profitable scale) on contracts after this change? Exactly. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
170
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Posted - 2012.04.14 15:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Contracts are a sliding scale. Accounting affects them, so a contractor should have trained it to get .5% sales tax. I think Broker Relations does too, but the broker fee is a sliding scale based on contract length; for me with Broker Relations V its .95% for 14 days, .6% for 7 days, .4% for 3 days and .3% for 1 day. Deposit is 1% regardless. Deposit is returned if the contract sells.
Compare this to the .5% sales tax and approximately .23% broker's fee I pay on market orders and you'll see that, as I said before, putting these items on the market actually reduces the money sink that the fees involved with selling them represent. If you want a legitimate argument for CCP not to do it (not, "it kills my profession what about the sandbox a bloo bloo"), that's one to use. Not that they'll listen to you anyway, since it's still a good change. |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
301
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Posted - 2012.04.14 16:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
It is as legitimate as any argument for a game issue, certainly as legitimate as the one you just posted. I couldn't care less whether or not you agree with it, but as this is a game, gameplay considerations should certainly be taken into account. |
Baljos Arnjak
Dark Praetorian Order
16
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Posted - 2012.04.14 18:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gorki Andropov wrote:DeliaPrescot wrote: Tag prices could get funny soon....
Tag prices are already funny - the whole tag drop mechanism is really really ******. I mean, just look at missions offered in Gallente space (whose LP stores require Caldari tags): most of the anti-faction missions offered there are against Amarr (quite useless, unless one is trading tags with other collectors). By allowing these faction items onto the market and to be traded just like any other item, as you say, volume will increase and prices will go down. I have created a thread in Assembly Hall to hopefully try and look at this situation, if you'd care to look at it and discuss it further there I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65130&find=unreadYes, I personally will be inconvenienced by this change: not just because CCP is taking away my easy-oasey business, and not even that profit on high volume/low margin items will be reduced even further - I'm more upset, to speak frankly, about the fact that CCP is limiting the sandbox feature even further in the guise of 'streamlining' by removing this profession.
Yeah, I agree. As a minmatar mission runner, I usually make a run to Dodixie to pick up the tags I need and put the Caldari tags I get from missions up on the market while I'm there. That's one thing I liked about serious mission running: You had to know where to look and had to apply the brain cells to get the most out of it.
The general trend that I'm seeing for Inferno is interesting though. It seems like they are actively making nullsec, or more broadly anywhere but highsec, the place to be for making isk and at the same time trying to adjust which activities are the real money makers. Drone poo + meta 0 removal increases demand for miners (especially high end miners in nullsec) and decreases potential profit from missions. So, well-coordinated mining in null is going to be able to pull massive income for a while. Mission profit decrease is also going to make running anoms in nullsec comparatively better for pure isk generation. Add to that the probable price drop from moving faction modules to the market and you will have a clear advantage. Datacores being moved into the FW LP store might also move earning potential to lowsec and FW.
Not that I have a problem with most of this
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Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
19
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Posted - 2012.04.14 19:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
On a 1 bil contract that I just mocked up from my tengu, it's 10 million for sales tax (1%) 5.6 mil for broker's fee (.99%) and 10mil for deposit (1%).
Not sure how 5.6 mil is .99%... must be .99% of whatever the broker's fee is. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
180
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Posted - 2012.04.15 02:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gorki Andropov wrote:I'm more upset, to speak frankly, about the fact that CCP is limiting the sandbox feature even further in the guise of 'streamlining' by removing this profession.
I'd have to take a bit of an issue with this statement on principle. While those in the contract trading profession may not like this change, it is in fact expanding the sandbox rather than limiting it.
Keep in mind I am not talking in terms of good vs. bad effects of this change. But in essence it is making the sandbox less constrained.
For some reason throughout the EVE history, some items were arbitrarily not available on the market. You could say deadspace/officer/faction mods were different because they are not manufactured. But neither are Meta1-4 items and they are on the market.
So by adding these items they are in fact removing some arbitrary limitations imposed on the sandbox. They are not taking away the ability to sell on contract.
Again, keep in mind I am only talking in terms of the mechanics of the game, not the market/profession ramifications of this change. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
172
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Posted - 2012.04.15 02:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quoting for second page.
Disclaimer: I probably do far more business than most of the whiners in this thread over contracts and have no problem with it. |
Jaden Mars
Cargo Dawg's Group Mining Corp. EveBowl Alliance
7
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Posted - 2012.04.23 13:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm disappointed that these items will end up on the market. I always believed these to be a 'deep/rich universe' thing - that some people (think dirty cops/military/pirates) would use their standing in military/pirate organizations (LP) to enrich themselves by selling special gear on the side.
Same thing goes for the officer mods... these are rare ['unique', but not] items that are few & far between. I will be somewhat disappointed that the local WalMart now has a spot on the shelf for them when they're available. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
182
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jaden Mars wrote:I'm disappointed that these items will end up on the market. I always believed these to be a 'deep/rich universe' thing - that some people (think dirty cops/military/pirates) would use their standing in military/pirate organizations (LP) to enrich themselves by selling special gear on the side.
Same thing goes for the officer mods... these are rare ['unique', but not] items that are few & far between. I will be somewhat disappointed that the local WalMart now has a spot on the shelf for them when they're available. http://i.imgur.com/RXhdL.gif |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
10
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Posted - 2012.04.23 21:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
contract pvp was the best thing in eve but maybe something cool will happen in the ship against ship pvp scene to replace it |
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
185
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Posted - 2012.04.23 21:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
well i guess if ganking helpless miners qualifies as pvp, what you did on contracts counts as "contract pvp" |
Online Superstar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.04.24 00:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
corestwo wrote:well i guess if ganking helpless miners qualifies as pvp, what you did on contracts counts as "contract pvp"
Seems to me like you didn't have what it takes to compete on contracts market where real items are involved? (not talking about any deadspace crap for kids here)
Also, thank you for leaking pax (indirectly).
TL;DR "well played"
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
185
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Posted - 2012.04.24 00:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Online Superstar wrote:corestwo wrote:well i guess if ganking helpless miners qualifies as pvp, what you did on contracts counts as "contract pvp" Seems to me like you didn't have what it takes to compete on contracts market where real items are involved? (not talking about any deadspace crap for kids here)
I did just fine in the contracts market so I'm not really sure what you're saying.
See, dibsi's business model seemed to be "place very, very lowball buy orders for expensive modules and wait until someone too dumb to know any better sold to him", thus my likening it to ganking helpless miners or whatever. |
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