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DeviLee
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Posted - 2004.07.19 10:25:00 -
[1]
I think it would be much better if RP would be used as a method of payment for blueprints. Your agent would tell you how many research points you need for a specific blueprint and then you would be working toward it and when you reached the desired ammount you get the blueprint. Gathering research points for expensive blueprints like tech II battleships should be done on corporate level so RP from all corp members would be gathered toward the same goal. Working should be paid accordingly not influenced by some stupid lottery.
My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp. |
DeviLee
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Posted - 2004.07.19 10:25:00 -
[2]
I think it would be much better if RP would be used as a method of payment for blueprints. Your agent would tell you how many research points you need for a specific blueprint and then you would be working toward it and when you reached the desired ammount you get the blueprint. Gathering research points for expensive blueprints like tech II battleships should be done on corporate level so RP from all corp members would be gathered toward the same goal. Working should be paid accordingly not influenced by some stupid lottery.
My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp. |
Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.07.19 11:08:00 -
[3]
more power to the mega Corps ?
No !
The Big Corps can afford the money to auction the BPs they desire from the lucky researchers.
and concerning the RPs = Isks for Blueprints:
with that system you can¦t limit the number of BPOs available in game - so basically everybody researching long enough gets the BP - in a year your XX-BPO is worth crap because everybody got one.(just like tech 1 is now)
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.07.19 11:08:00 -
[4]
more power to the mega Corps ?
No !
The Big Corps can afford the money to auction the BPs they desire from the lucky researchers.
and concerning the RPs = Isks for Blueprints:
with that system you can¦t limit the number of BPOs available in game - so basically everybody researching long enough gets the BP - in a year your XX-BPO is worth crap because everybody got one.(just like tech 1 is now)
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DeviLee
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Posted - 2004.07.19 13:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DeviLee on 19/07/2004 13:34:38
And why exactly shouldn't mega corps have loads more power than smaller ones? They have more members who work just as the members of smaller corps have to. Shouldn't a large group of people working together be able to get more stuff?
Limiting the number of bpos is ridiculos. Tech II Large armor repairers bpo is out but the corp that has it won't put the modules on the market. Is that fair? Your bpo should be devaluated over time because new stuff that is coming out is more expensive, better and takes more resources to build. It would be easier for people in smaller corps to afford lower tech equipment then. With the game progressing they won't be able to mount the higher tech equipment anyway since they don't have the skill points.
I'm all for competition instead of people setting prices through the roof just because they got lucky in a lottery.
My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp. |
DeviLee
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Posted - 2004.07.19 13:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: DeviLee on 19/07/2004 13:34:38
And why exactly shouldn't mega corps have loads more power than smaller ones? They have more members who work just as the members of smaller corps have to. Shouldn't a large group of people working together be able to get more stuff?
Limiting the number of bpos is ridiculos. Tech II Large armor repairers bpo is out but the corp that has it won't put the modules on the market. Is that fair? Your bpo should be devaluated over time because new stuff that is coming out is more expensive, better and takes more resources to build. It would be easier for people in smaller corps to afford lower tech equipment then. With the game progressing they won't be able to mount the higher tech equipment anyway since they don't have the skill points.
I'm all for competition instead of people setting prices through the roof just because they got lucky in a lottery.
My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp. |
Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.07.19 14:37:00 -
[7]
I love this idea
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Mari Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2004.07.19 14:37:00 -
[8]
I love this idea
My Production Spreadsheet, Most T1 Bp data, Located here. |
Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.07.19 17:42:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
And why exactly shouldn't mega corps have loads more power than smaller ones? They have more members who work just as the members of smaller corps have to. Shouldn't a large group of people working together be able to get more stuff?
Mega Corps got the manpower to claim and defend 0.0 space and thus have access to rare minerals - they will be able to handle deployable structures and they have more variety of game opportunities available anyway - should they have pole position in all aspects of the game leaving no rooms for different playstyles ?
New Technologies are usually invented by small Corporations (very often being bought by a mega corp afterwards) - it¦s more "the fast eat the slow" than "the big eat the small "
so technological improvements should be open to all players at equal chances (Mega Corps have larger access to it anyway because they have a larger memberbase)
Quote:
Limiting the number of bpos is ridiculos
not limiting them is bad for the economy - take a look at the tech 1 market
Quote:
Tech II Large armor repairers bpo is out but the corp that has it won't put the modules on the market. Is that fair?
Absolutely - YES. it¦s their patent and their decision how to handle it - they miss a lot of ISK waiting on the Market. They might have a good reason to do so - not my cup of tea to worry about. More BPOs will be released of the item and other corps will sell it.
Quote:
It would be easier for people in smaller corps to afford lower tech equipment then. With the game progressing they won't be able to mount the higher tech equipment anyway since they don't have the skill points.
I fail to see any connection between small corporations and the number of skill points a pilot has - I for example have 12 Million Skill Points and my Corp has 4 active Members 
Quote:
I'm all for competition instead of people setting prices through the roof just because they got lucky in a lottery.
you sound as if there is just 1 BPO per item/ship released - I think you are either not into Tech 2 Production or you got nice Competitors that don¦t outbid you and lower the prices to tech1 margin levels.
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.07.19 17:42:00 -
[10]
Quote:
And why exactly shouldn't mega corps have loads more power than smaller ones? They have more members who work just as the members of smaller corps have to. Shouldn't a large group of people working together be able to get more stuff?
Mega Corps got the manpower to claim and defend 0.0 space and thus have access to rare minerals - they will be able to handle deployable structures and they have more variety of game opportunities available anyway - should they have pole position in all aspects of the game leaving no rooms for different playstyles ?
New Technologies are usually invented by small Corporations (very often being bought by a mega corp afterwards) - it¦s more "the fast eat the slow" than "the big eat the small "
so technological improvements should be open to all players at equal chances (Mega Corps have larger access to it anyway because they have a larger memberbase)
Quote:
Limiting the number of bpos is ridiculos
not limiting them is bad for the economy - take a look at the tech 1 market
Quote:
Tech II Large armor repairers bpo is out but the corp that has it won't put the modules on the market. Is that fair?
Absolutely - YES. it¦s their patent and their decision how to handle it - they miss a lot of ISK waiting on the Market. They might have a good reason to do so - not my cup of tea to worry about. More BPOs will be released of the item and other corps will sell it.
Quote:
It would be easier for people in smaller corps to afford lower tech equipment then. With the game progressing they won't be able to mount the higher tech equipment anyway since they don't have the skill points.
I fail to see any connection between small corporations and the number of skill points a pilot has - I for example have 12 Million Skill Points and my Corp has 4 active Members
Quote:
I'm all for competition instead of people setting prices through the roof just because they got lucky in a lottery.
you sound as if there is just 1 BPO per item/ship released - I think you are either not into Tech 2 Production or you got nice Competitors that don¦t outbid you and lower the prices to tech1 margin levels.
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Caeli Maren
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Posted - 2004.07.20 17:14:00 -
[11]
I agree with Ertai on this. Many corporations spend loads of money on Tech 2 BPOs on the understanding that bpo distribution would be limited. If they adopted that system, then over a day, these corps could lose billions of isk. Not to mention what it would do to the component market!
The whole point of tech 2 is that its rare, and valuable. If you let players buy bpos from npcs at any cost, then you will trash this for cheap and plentiful. It will just take time.
Most manufacturers already have a hard enough time making decent profit (decent by modern standards).
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Caeli Maren
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Posted - 2004.07.20 17:14:00 -
[12]
I agree with Ertai on this. Many corporations spend loads of money on Tech 2 BPOs on the understanding that bpo distribution would be limited. If they adopted that system, then over a day, these corps could lose billions of isk. Not to mention what it would do to the component market!
The whole point of tech 2 is that its rare, and valuable. If you let players buy bpos from npcs at any cost, then you will trash this for cheap and plentiful. It will just take time.
Most manufacturers already have a hard enough time making decent profit (decent by modern standards).
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DeviLee
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Posted - 2004.07.21 14:27:00 -
[13]
Yeah well that's where we disagree because if you're into pvp you'd like that most modules are cheap so you can get your ship faster into fight again equipped the best as it can be.
I personaly don't like it that there is such shortage of certain modules like cap II rechargers and large armor repairers.
Maybe the bpo should be handed out as an exclusive like it is now and after a month or so it would appear in the agents list so you could get it if you had enough RP. This would give the lucky guy that got the module in a lottery time to earn a ****load of isk and us who want good modules reasonably priced the chance to buy them at lower prices after it got spread more.
My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp. |
DeviLee
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Posted - 2004.07.21 14:27:00 -
[14]
Yeah well that's where we disagree because if you're into pvp you'd like that most modules are cheap so you can get your ship faster into fight again equipped the best as it can be.
I personaly don't like it that there is such shortage of certain modules like cap II rechargers and large armor repairers.
Maybe the bpo should be handed out as an exclusive like it is now and after a month or so it would appear in the agents list so you could get it if you had enough RP. This would give the lucky guy that got the module in a lottery time to earn a ****load of isk and us who want good modules reasonably priced the chance to buy them at lower prices after it got spread more.
My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp. |
Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.07.21 20:25:00 -
[15]
If you want your corp to get tech 2, research for it like everyone else.
GG
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K. Raven
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.07.21 20:25:00 -
[16]
If you want your corp to get tech 2, research for it like everyone else.
GG
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K. Raven
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Dr Plaxton
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Posted - 2004.07.25 14:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dr Plaxton on 25/07/2004 14:23:38
I really think research agents should hand out a few BP Copies rather the just BPO or even tech 2 components as a sort of consulation prize for a certain amount of RP at least it will be like you are achieving something with you agent
Like sorry were were unlucky this month but we did manage to aquire a few graviton generators but they will cost 500 RPs
We manage to produce a limited run of Large tech 2 amour repaires till someone crashed the data base allowing us only to make 10 Armour repaires but we lost 1000 RPs in the process shall we restore from backups or keep the results and continue on
also would be nice to get agent rewards for doing the missions as people seem to just not bother like 10 super conductors or 20 construction blocks
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Dr Plaxton
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Posted - 2004.07.25 14:18:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dr Plaxton on 25/07/2004 14:23:38
I really think research agents should hand out a few BP Copies rather the just BPO or even tech 2 components as a sort of consulation prize for a certain amount of RP at least it will be like you are achieving something with you agent
Like sorry were were unlucky this month but we did manage to aquire a few graviton generators but they will cost 500 RPs
We manage to produce a limited run of Large tech 2 amour repaires till someone crashed the data base allowing us only to make 10 Armour repaires but we lost 1000 RPs in the process shall we restore from backups or keep the results and continue on
also would be nice to get agent rewards for doing the missions as people seem to just not bother like 10 super conductors or 20 construction blocks
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KingsGambit
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:23:00 -
[19]
I suggested this very thing a couple of months ago, but can't find the original thread which had some interesting responses.
I think it's still a good idea, in that it does mean that players investing in the skills to research and the isk for the missions are guaranteed a return at some point, however distant it may be. I also think a couple of restrictions would need to be made, eg. A player cannot use research the same field more than once simultaneously, and a player cannot obtain the same BPO more than once.
Having said that, not having a point buy system, maintaining the existing lottery, is the only way CCP can control the market for Tech II items. As it is now, humans control the distribution of the blueprints, the numbers in the game, the sales of components to build Tech II items and the sales of the items themselves. Having a point buy system would mean however, that the number of BPOs in game for any given item *will* go up, components will be harder to obtain (short of increasing their availability which I think should be done now anyway) and that there will be a lot more competition.
The idea of Tech II is that it is an elite version of the standard modules/ships everyone uses, which can give a player a much needed edge for a premium cost and more intensive skill training. Making BPOs more readily available, while satisfying researchers (myself included), would however mean that these elite items will become standard fare. The fact the BPOs are rare and hard to obtain, hard to work with and build from makes the Tech II items what they are. It's a really hard issue to manage, so CCP will likely never change it.
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BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
KingsGambit
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Posted - 2004.07.26 14:23:00 -
[20]
I suggested this very thing a couple of months ago, but can't find the original thread which had some interesting responses.
I think it's still a good idea, in that it does mean that players investing in the skills to research and the isk for the missions are guaranteed a return at some point, however distant it may be. I also think a couple of restrictions would need to be made, eg. A player cannot use research the same field more than once simultaneously, and a player cannot obtain the same BPO more than once.
Having said that, not having a point buy system, maintaining the existing lottery, is the only way CCP can control the market for Tech II items. As it is now, humans control the distribution of the blueprints, the numbers in the game, the sales of components to build Tech II items and the sales of the items themselves. Having a point buy system would mean however, that the number of BPOs in game for any given item *will* go up, components will be harder to obtain (short of increasing their availability which I think should be done now anyway) and that there will be a lot more competition.
The idea of Tech II is that it is an elite version of the standard modules/ships everyone uses, which can give a player a much needed edge for a premium cost and more intensive skill training. Making BPOs more readily available, while satisfying researchers (myself included), would however mean that these elite items will become standard fare. The fact the BPOs are rare and hard to obtain, hard to work with and build from makes the Tech II items what they are. It's a really hard issue to manage, so CCP will likely never change it.
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BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:17:00 -
[21]
Ages & ages ago a variation on this was mentioned/thrown open for debate by Papa'Diddy'Smurf.
Who knows what ever happened to that line of thought ... 
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2004.07.26 16:17:00 -
[22]
Ages & ages ago a variation on this was mentioned/thrown open for debate by Papa'Diddy'Smurf.
Who knows what ever happened to that line of thought ...
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Zoneh
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Posted - 2004.07.27 09:13:00 -
[23]
Thats a bad idea. That would give Mega Corporations more money, more blueprints and smaller corporations would fall apart. Lottery pwnz.
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Zoneh
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Posted - 2004.07.27 09:13:00 -
[24]
Thats a bad idea. That would give Mega Corporations more money, more blueprints and smaller corporations would fall apart. Lottery pwnz.
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Ro LaPont
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Posted - 2004.07.28 16:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ertai Vodalion
Quote:
And why exactly shouldn't mega corps have loads more power than smaller ones?
Mega Corps got the manpower to claim and defend 0.0 space and thus have access to rare minerals - they will be able to handle deployable structures and they have more variety of game opportunities available anyway - should they have pole position in all aspects of the game leaving no rooms for different playstyles ?
and Originally by: Ertai Vodalion
Quote:
Limiting the number of bpos is ridiculos
not limiting them is bad for the economy - take a look at the tech 1 market
I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want anyone to be able to have a breakthrough on blueprints, you can't then say that you don't want those blueprints to be devalued. This is the nature of technology - as more people discover how something is done, the more commonplace (and less valuable) that knowledge becomes.
Personally, I think that the system as is "works", but is disappointing. It would be nice if you got /some/thing out of your research, even if you didn't win the lottery.
I'm a little new to all this, but I think you should be able to specify what it is you're trying to research - ship technologies, shields, mining add-ons, or other large categories - with each lab/agent. And every so often, the lab/agent should spit out something, even if it's tech1. I don't think it should be a market-like choice where you just pick the thing you want to research or "buy" a blueprint with a bunch of saved up RPs. It should work more like skills, only where you pick the category and not the actual item.
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Ro LaPont
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Posted - 2004.07.28 16:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ertai Vodalion
Quote:
And why exactly shouldn't mega corps have loads more power than smaller ones?
Mega Corps got the manpower to claim and defend 0.0 space and thus have access to rare minerals - they will be able to handle deployable structures and they have more variety of game opportunities available anyway - should they have pole position in all aspects of the game leaving no rooms for different playstyles ?
and Originally by: Ertai Vodalion
Quote:
Limiting the number of bpos is ridiculos
not limiting them is bad for the economy - take a look at the tech 1 market
I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want anyone to be able to have a breakthrough on blueprints, you can't then say that you don't want those blueprints to be devalued. This is the nature of technology - as more people discover how something is done, the more commonplace (and less valuable) that knowledge becomes.
Personally, I think that the system as is "works", but is disappointing. It would be nice if you got /some/thing out of your research, even if you didn't win the lottery.
I'm a little new to all this, but I think you should be able to specify what it is you're trying to research - ship technologies, shields, mining add-ons, or other large categories - with each lab/agent. And every so often, the lab/agent should spit out something, even if it's tech1. I don't think it should be a market-like choice where you just pick the thing you want to research or "buy" a blueprint with a bunch of saved up RPs. It should work more like skills, only where you pick the category and not the actual item.
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.07.28 18:57:00 -
[27]
Quote:
It should work more like skills, only where you pick the category and not the actual item.
that¦s how it is now - you choose for example Rocket Science and you have a go at 1, 10, 100 MN ABs and same for MWDs.
you choose Gallete Starship and you have a go at gallente starships ...
Concerning the rewards from R&D agents I would like something in between "nothing" and a "BPO" aswell.
Say when 1 run of patents ( I think most of the tech 2 BPOs were released 8 times per item/ship) ends, all participants in the lottery receive a mail that the technological breakthrough was not met but as a side result they got <enter reward here>. whatever it might be ..
.. on the other hand you would loose all your Research Points if that happens - resetting your chance in the next run of patents.
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.07.28 18:57:00 -
[28]
Quote:
It should work more like skills, only where you pick the category and not the actual item.
that¦s how it is now - you choose for example Rocket Science and you have a go at 1, 10, 100 MN ABs and same for MWDs.
you choose Gallete Starship and you have a go at gallente starships ...
Concerning the rewards from R&D agents I would like something in between "nothing" and a "BPO" aswell.
Say when 1 run of patents ( I think most of the tech 2 BPOs were released 8 times per item/ship) ends, all participants in the lottery receive a mail that the technological breakthrough was not met but as a side result they got <enter reward here>. whatever it might be ..
.. on the other hand you would loose all your Research Points if that happens - resetting your chance in the next run of patents.
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Karakaran
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:11:00 -
[29]
Its the randomness that is getting on a lot of peoples nerves. Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp. I mean wtf, tell me how thats fair and tell me how its justifiable. Take the friggin luck element out and people will be happier. Maybe.
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Karakaran
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:11:00 -
[30]
Its the randomness that is getting on a lot of peoples nerves. Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp. I mean wtf, tell me how thats fair and tell me how its justifiable. Take the friggin luck element out and people will be happier. Maybe.
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Archfish
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Posted - 2004.07.31 20:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Karakaran
Its the randomness that is getting on a lot of peoples nerves. Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp. I mean wtf, tell me how thats fair and tell me how its justifiable. Take the friggin luck element out and people will be happier. Maybe.
Yes, but it's the randomness which gives small operators a chance when up against the megacorps. If this is taken out then the majority of tech 2 bpo's will inevitably end up with the larger richer corps as they will have the most dedicated scientists.
At least this way the little guys can actually compete. (Or sell their bpo to a big corp for billions of isk... either way little guy gets a boost  ).
************
"We will fly at their death cannons and clog them with wreckage"
************
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Archfish
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Posted - 2004.07.31 20:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Karakaran
Its the randomness that is getting on a lot of peoples nerves. Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp. I mean wtf, tell me how thats fair and tell me how its justifiable. Take the friggin luck element out and people will be happier. Maybe.
Yes, but it's the randomness which gives small operators a chance when up against the megacorps. If this is taken out then the majority of tech 2 bpo's will inevitably end up with the larger richer corps as they will have the most dedicated scientists.
At least this way the little guys can actually compete. (Or sell their bpo to a big corp for billions of isk... either way little guy gets a boost ).
************
"We will fly at their death cannons and clog them with wreckage"
************
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Qual
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Karakaran
Its the randomness that is getting on a lot of peoples nerves. Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp. I mean wtf, tell me how thats fair and tell me how its justifiable. Take the friggin luck element out and people will be happier. Maybe.
Actually the 6000 point dude have a 120 times greater chance than the 50 point dude. Sound fair enough. But in the great sea of tickets we are all a bit lost...
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Qual
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:47:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Karakaran
Its the randomness that is getting on a lot of peoples nerves. Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp. I mean wtf, tell me how thats fair and tell me how its justifiable. Take the friggin luck element out and people will be happier. Maybe.
Actually the 6000 point dude have a 120 times greater chance than the 50 point dude. Sound fair enough. But in the great sea of tickets we are all a bit lost...
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Qual
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:51:00 -
[35]
T2 BPO for R&D point might be a good idea when T3 comes out. THat way people can either get T2 stuff or stay in the race for T3.
Before that: Absolutely not!
But it will never happen. CCP WANT a long supply chain. Look at the first 3 step device, Cov Op Cloak. Thats how hard they want T3, T4 and in the end T5 tech to be to produce. That will make the end product expensive but involve a lot of players in the process.
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Qual
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Posted - 2004.08.02 17:51:00 -
[36]
T2 BPO for R&D point might be a good idea when T3 comes out. THat way people can either get T2 stuff or stay in the race for T3.
Before that: Absolutely not!
But it will never happen. CCP WANT a long supply chain. Look at the first 3 step device, Cov Op Cloak. Thats how hard they want T3, T4 and in the end T5 tech to be to produce. That will make the end product expensive but involve a lot of players in the process.
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Pioneer Bob
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Posted - 2004.09.09 13:45:00 -
[37]
Getting alittle off the topic... exactly when are these lotteries for this stuff held... once a day?.. two times aday?.. anyone knows what time of day.. my research agent is about 15 jumps away from where my L3 agent I am working with.. Looked for one closer, but none available.. Getting the email about the "trouble" the agent is having and getting there later in the day, I assume I lose some time in the lottery system.. the word babysitting comes to mind and is not what I came to this game to do.
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Pioneer Bob
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Posted - 2004.09.09 13:45:00 -
[38]
Getting alittle off the topic... exactly when are these lotteries for this stuff held... once a day?.. two times aday?.. anyone knows what time of day.. my research agent is about 15 jumps away from where my L3 agent I am working with.. Looked for one closer, but none available.. Getting the email about the "trouble" the agent is having and getting there later in the day, I assume I lose some time in the lottery system.. the word babysitting comes to mind and is not what I came to this game to do.
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Claire Scott
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Posted - 2004.09.10 06:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Karakaran
Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp.
Are you a slow learner?
-E
If you're not running with the pack, you're prey . . . |
Claire Scott
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Posted - 2004.09.10 06:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Karakaran
Someone with 6,000 rp stands just as much chance of getting a T2 BPO as someone with 50 rp.
Are you a slow learner?
-E
If you're not running with the pack, you're prey . . . |
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