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Bond offering - 32% compounded over 4 months

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Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 03:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 23/12/2008 03:54:41 Flux Technologies Inc Bond Offering The quick and dirty 1 billion bond offering, 8% per month, 4 month term, full payout at the end of 4 month term totaling 32% compounded. 100 bonds @ 10 million each. Even a small time investor can get into it. Who am I? I run a research corporation known as Flux Technologies, IÆve been posting in Market Discussion for awhile. I have audited one successful bond (Stardust CEO) in the past. Business Plan There is no plan; the idea is to simply create a 4 month CD at Dynasty Bank that returns 10% per month. IÆm taking 2% as a fee and offering 8% to investor. IÆm offering this bond because I have 2 accounts at Dynasty Bank that is doing nothing and I thought people would benefit from my offering. Bond Plan This bond offering is open today and will close on Dec 30th; no bonds will be sold after that date. The bond will begin on Dec 30th and run until April 30th. Flux Technologies Inc is offering a total of 100 bonds for 10 million each, totaling 1 billion. At the end of 4 month term, investor will get their full investment back plus 32%. So, if you purchase 1 bond at 10 million; you will get 13.2 million back. The bond will expand if more than 100 bonds are purchased before Dec 30th. Risk Mitigation What happens if DBank folds or scams everybody? Simple, IÆll sell some of my asset in Flux Technologies to cover the loss. The Why Why should you purchase this bond? Easy, if you simple head over to Dynasty Bank and create your own account, your only risk is losing 100% of your investment if they fold or scam everybody. If you invest into Flux TechnologiesÆ bond, your investment is 100% covered by assets owned by Flux Technologies. Fire away the questions, critics and scam post. 10% for Returning Customers
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 03:54:00 - [2] Reserved 10% for Returning Customers
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.12.23 03:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Vikarion on 23/12/2008 03:59:32 So, basically, for a 2% return you are insuring complete safety? Aside from your own chance of scamming, of course.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Brock Nelson Fire away the questions, critics and scam post. Scam! Okay, but really, can I get some credit for at least one or two of those paragraphs? I'm interested to see where investor confidence is higher: in Dynasty Bank, or in Brock Nelson. If the latter ends up holding true, I think Dynasty clearly has some work to do. (That's no dig against you by the way, but more an expectation for DBANK that derives from EBANK's high reputation as a trusted entity.) I'll take 10 bonds, why not. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:02:00 - [5] Yes, I should mention that Packtu'sa had suggested Risk Mitigation. I am by no means, suggesting that Dynasty Bank is not to be trusted, however there has been 1 other bank that had scammed everybody. 10% for Returning Customers
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:02:00 - [6] Not to be asinine, but how do we know that you and Stardust aren't working together to accumulate a large amount of small-time loans in order to make one big scam?
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:05:00 - [7] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 23/12/2008 04:05:33 1 billion scam is not worth my time. A independent auditor can verify that there has been no interaction between Stardust CEO or any of his alts with my alts and I. Edit: Of course, other than discussion Stardust's audit. 10% for Returning Customers
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:07:00 - [8] I'm never sure what shocks me more: How diligent the vets here are about protecting their isk, or how easily the majority of players are ripped off.
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Stardust CEO I'm never sure what shocks me more: How diligent the vets here are about protecting their isk, or how easily the majority of players are ripped off. Now that's a statement that can be taken a multitude of ways.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:37:00 - [10] Yeah, Stardust, can you elaborate? Your post is kind of negative... 10% for Returning Customers
The Schwa Coda Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:45:00 - [11] With dead isk lying around and deposit limit reached at DBank I'll bite for 50. Isk to Brock Nelson?
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 04:57:00 - [12] Yup, to Brock Nelson 10% for Returning Customers
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Packtu''sa on 23/12/2008 05:02:34 Originally by: Brock Nelson Yup, to Brock Nelson I assume you'll be waiting on the CD creation until you raise all requested capital, so I'll toss the ISK your way shortly after Christmas. I'll give you plenty of time before the 30th. [EDIT] Typo. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:02:00 - [14] I guess it could be interpreted as ambiguous. Let me clarify. What I was trying to illustrate is how easily some people throw their isk at some of the recent bonds posted, with very little support for stated business plans and no reputation to back up the offerer, and contrasting it with the diligent caution of the vets, even going so far as to suggest Brock and I might be working together on an elaborate scam to gather lots of small bonds in order to pull of a concerted large scam. You have to admit, it's quite a contrast.
The Schwa Coda Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:03:00 - [15] Isk sent.
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Frenden Dax on 23/12/2008 05:13:59 EDIT: I'll have to pull my reservation unfortunately; miscalculated and I won't be able to render enough capital liquid in time.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Stardust CEO What I was trying to illustrate is how easily some people throw their isk at some of the recent bonds posted, with very little support for stated business plans and no reputation to back up the offerer, and contrasting it with the diligent caution of the vets, even going so far as to suggest Brock and I might be working together on an elaborate scam to gather lots of small bonds in order to pull of a concerted large scam. I'd say it's more a divergence of priorities. My interest is in getting my feet wet with investments and making a bit of money with as widely diversified a portfolio as possible. 100m ISK to me is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of what I'm working with, so if I lose it, I won't be doomed to failure or anything. If Brock stays true to his word, I get 8%/mo. on 100m. It's not much, but it's better than the 4% I'm paying for the privilege of holding onto that capital. I'm also willing to "throw" my money at this because I am interested in this sort of financial structure being deployed more frequently in EVE, so I want to support it in its emergence. An investor who cannot afford to lose anything might be more scrutinizing, but I wouldn't necessarily say that the split is between "the vets" and the masses. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:11:00 - [18] Originally by: Stardust CEO I guess it could be interpreted as ambiguous. Let me clarify. What I was trying to illustrate is how easily some people throw their isk at some of the recent bonds posted, with very little support for stated business plans and no reputation to back up the offerer, and contrasting it with the diligent caution of the vets, even going so far as to suggest Brock and I might be working together on an elaborate scam to gather lots of small bonds in order to pull of a concerted large scam. You have to admit, it's quite a contrast. Its ironic, you were facing the same situation except in my case, I have more rep than you did at the time of your bond offering. At least, I'd like to think that I'm more known than you were. I'll create the CDs as soon as the isk is sent in. Ie: The Schwa had sent his 50 shares and will get his Cd created as soon as it gets uploaded to DBank. 10% for Returning Customers
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Stardust CEO I guess it could be interpreted as ambiguous. Let me clarify. What I was trying to illustrate is how easily some people throw their isk at some of the recent bonds posted, with very little support for stated business plans and no reputation to back up the offerer, and contrasting it with the diligent caution of the vets, even going so far as to suggest Brock and I might be working together on an elaborate scam to gather lots of small bonds in order to pull of a concerted large scam. You have to admit, it's quite a contrast. In no way was I trying to say that this offering lacks a business plan, nor that Brock's reputation is not sufficient to warrant a billion isk investment. Not even close. Brock was my auditor for my bond, and has been both professional and discreet. As I cannot seem to get across the point I was trying to make, please please take my word that I was not trying to say anything negative about Brock, nor the people choosing to invest in this offering, and I'm disappearing from this thread.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:18:00 - [20] It's no trouble, you're merely stating what MD vets will say when they wake up in the morning. 10% for Returning Customers
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:22:00 - [21] Edited by: Stardust CEO on 23/12/2008 05:22:42 Originally by: Brock Nelson It's no trouble, you're merely stating what MD vets will say when they wake up in the morning. We both know you can look at the bonds offered in the last couple of days and see some risky investments. Those are the offerings I was speaking of. However "the vets" may feel about this offering makes no difference to me. If you'll take my isk, I'll invest in this. If not, I understand. Edit - Besides, I believe according to that post earlier, I have this whole billion reserved :P
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:23:00 - [22] I'll take it 10% for Returning Customers
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Brock Nelson I'll create the CDs as soon as the isk is sent in. Ie: The Schwa had sent his 50 shares and will get his Cd created as soon as it gets uploaded to DBank. In that case I'll send the ISK tomorrow as soon as the "other" bank has processed my withdrawal request. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:24:00 - [24] For a minute I thought you were asking us to judge whether your rep is better than DBank! The value here is if you have hit your max CD holding at DBank, then this gets you a slightly lower rate unavailable elsewhere.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:27:00 - [25] I'm not asking you to judge DBank rep's against mine. DBank doesn't have a limit on how much you can put into CDs, just how much you can deposit. 10% for Returning Customers
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:29:00 - [26] I'll reserve 20 shares.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:37:00 - [27] Edited by: Packtu''sa on 23/12/2008 05:38:42 Never mind, I've decided that I like being my own bank. Funds for 10 bonds sent to Brock Nelson. Originally by: cosmoray For a minute I thought you were asking us to judge whether your rep is better than DBank! We're judging a few things here. One is whether or not Brock Nelson is trustworthy, and that's really a rather simple problem. Either he sticks to his word or he doesn't, and that holds true for every offer. Another item for us to judge is whether Brock Nelson is competent enough to follow through on his word, assuming it's good. This is also a pretty simple one, as it's only a question of if he has 1bn in assets to liquidate. The reason his service is useful is that although there may not be a question of DBANK's integrity, there are certainly valid questions about their competency. Brock may not have as strong a reputation, but the problem of ability is much simpler for him than it is for DBANK and there are far fewer variables. Does he have the assets or doesn't he? For the knowledge that he's actually capable, I'm willing to risk that his honesty isn't par with DBANK's. [EDIT] Typo and a few corrections. It's late. I'm tired. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.12.23 05:55:00 - [28] 20 shares for 200 million. Isk sent.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2008.12.23 06:00:00 - [29] All bonds are sold now, thanks for your support guys. CDs will be made as soon as they show up in DBank. 10% for Returning Customers
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2008.12.23 06:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Vikarion on 23/12/2008 06:00:58 Bleh, I sent in 200 mil just before you edited for "sold out". Am I included or not? EDIT: Oh LOL, I'm behind you all the way. I see the reservation now. All is cool.
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2008.12.23 06:14:00 - [31] I think this bond was a masterstroke. From a DBANK employee offering it and retracting due to conflict of interest, to joking with me about it in another thread, to offering it and selling out, in a matter of hours. Brock is essentially betting 1b isk that DBANK will survive 4 months, and I think he'll win that bet.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2008.12.23 06:19:00 - [32] Originally by: Stardust CEO I think this bond was a masterstroke. From a DBANK employee offering it and retracting due to conflict of interest, to joking with me about it in another thread, to offering it and selling out, in a matter of hours. Brock is essentially betting 1b isk that DBANK will survive 4 months, and I think he'll win that bet. I've made the exact same bet, except with 4bn behind it. If DBANK folds, I will have to cover that from somewhere else. Luckily I'm a bit more diversified, but still, it's an interesting thing to bet on nowadays. I wonder if there will begin to be trades of CDs closer to May? Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.01.20 22:09:00 - [33] What impact will DBANK folding (if it should come to pass) have on this bond?
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.21 00:02:00 - [34] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 21/01/2009 00:05:00 I've been waiting to hear from DBank's top man and frankly, he hasn't cleared the situation up any clearer than it was this morning. The effect of DBank folding on this bond will result in no interest being paid out, but investor will still get their original investment back. However, that will put a damper on Flux Tech's monthly profit. Right now, I've lost confidence in DBank; this is attributed to coincidental event including 2 employee quitting, 50 billion missing, scatter report of well known DBank employee being a scammer, and unsustainable liabilities. I have 2 main option here, one benefits Flux Tech and the other doesn't. I can either remove the risk mitigation fine print of this bond (which is basically what made this bond attractive right?) or don't. For the investors, depending on what I decided, I'll leave the outcome of the bond up to you guys. If I choose not to insure the bond Option 1: End the bond right now and get your money back plus 8% interest. Option 2: Continue with the bond, I increase the payout to 10% monthly (compounded 46%) but the bond will become risky. If I choose to continue insuring the bond Option 1: Terminate the CD with DBank and turn it into a regular 8% monthly bond with business plan and exit strategy changed. Option 2: Terminate the CD with DBank and turn merge this bond with the second bond Option 3: Continue with the bond as it is. Edit: Reason I can't decide between removing risk mitigation or not is because of the effect of the decision will have on my reputation. If I remove it, I'm essentially removing Flux Tech's liability that is tied to DBank and I would become known as the guy who changed the terms of the bond. I don't want to have trouble trying to raise capital, especially for one of my upcoming project in couple of months.
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.01.21 04:25:00 - [35] This bond was essentially a gamble, where if you won, you stood to make a lot of isk for nothing. The flip side of that is that now you're stuck for it if DBANK collapses. You securing the investment against the collapse of DBANK was the entire point of the bond. I like you, I like doing business with you, and I won't get my nose out of joint if this doesn't go as described. On that note, I want my 200m back soon(tm) with 8% interest, or I want the bond to continue for the full term with a guarantee from you that we'll get our full amount of isk and advertised interest, regardless of what should come to pass with DBANK.
Research Slots	Posted - 2009.01.21 04:47:00 - [36] Originally by: Stardust CEO This bond was essentially a gamble, where if you won, you stood to make a lot of isk for nothing. The flip side of that is that now you're stuck for it if DBANK collapses. You securing the investment against the collapse of DBANK was the entire point of the bond. I like you, I like doing business with you, and I won't get my nose out of joint if this doesn't go as described. On that note, I want my 200m back soon(tm) with 8% interest, or I want the bond to continue for the full term with a guarantee from you that we'll get our full amount of isk and advertised interest, regardless of what should come to pass with DBANK. This basically distills why everyone put money in. Investors were allowing you to gamble with their money on the chance of DBANK surviving 4 months with two outcomes; A: DBANK survives, you pay out partial interest and take a partial profit for the risk of acting as insurer, B: DBANK fails and you cough up assets to cover investment. You offered to act as insurer against the possibility of DBANK's collapse, and in the face of that possibility you're showing signs of not honoring your word, so basically we have: LOL MD, trust in space, LOLOL.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.21 05:06:00 - [37] Well, like I said, I'm exploring my options right now. I'd like to hear from other investors.
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.01.21 05:12:00 - [38] I'm not getting hostile about this, I hope it doesn't sound like that. I just wanted to put forth my two preferred options. If I didn't think you'd handle this kind of event decently, I wouldn't have invested in you. On that note, it sounds like DBANK will stabilize, and all of this fuss might be for nothing.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.21 05:21:00 - [39] With EBank backing up Dbank (with board approval pending), I'm leading toward to keeping the insurance aspect in the bond. 10% for Returning Customers
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.21 05:44:00 - [40] Brock Unfortunately for you, you chose to release two bonds under the Flux technology corp banner. As far as investors are concerned they were not taking a risk or a share in the profits or the reporting of the business. The bond is a fixed payment regardless of all other factors. The investors chose to invest in you and your risk. You were/are acting as an insuarnce policy against a DBank default. DBank has not defaulted yet, and hopefully will not, but your investors won't care. Whether you leave the money in DBank or not is your choice. You simply owe the bond payments as stated in both your bonds. Any other result will be considered a bond default. Unfortunately a bond default will lead to a large drop in reputation and any ability to raise capital again.
The Schwa Coda Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.08 04:00:00 - [41] My tupence worth as majority stakeholder in this. As Stardust mentioned the point of the bond was that it was secured, and as such removing this shouldnt even be considered an option. The phrase 'depending on what I decide' worries me more than anything else to be honest. I would have liked to have seen some communication with interested parties regarding this before you floated the idea of removing security publicly. The first two options where you continue to offer security, while valid, would need to be presented formally and have concensus from all investors. For my part I would like to see the bond remain as stated in the original offer unless some incentive is in place to change it. Again however the investment being secured is key here. I hope you get this sorted. I have some confidence in you and I'd like to be in the position to feel comfortable investing in your future offers.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2009.02.08 05:31:00 - [42] Originally by: Brock Nelson With EBank backing up Dbank (with board approval pending), I'm leading toward to keeping the insurance aspect in the bond. I only just saw this statement now. Please be fully aware that EBANK are not backing up DBANK. We have simply been in talks with them about different situations and ways to handle them. Don't base your decision to remain invested on EBANK filling in if something happens to DBANK as it's almost guaranteed to end badly if they do. Our primary objective with DBANK is in a guidance format. We don't want to interfere with their financials or bail them out, we want them to dig themselves out of their holes. We believe they have every ability to do so but don't back them up or secure DBANK in any way. If DBANK scams, your isk is gone. Please ensure this is quite clear when making these decisions.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.04.24 19:56:00 - [43] Sorry for the late replies. The CD is finished and I'm just awaiting the isk withdrawal from DBank. Blueprint Store
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.04.25 01:09:00 - [44] Awesome Possum.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.04.25 01:34:00 - [45] So, here's the investors and the isk they will be getting back: Investor - Total Invested - Total Returning Packtu'sa - 100,000,000 - 132,000,000 The Schwa - 500,000,000 - 660,000,000 Stardust CEO - 200,000,000 - 264,000,000 Vikarion - 200,000,000 - 264,000,000 Let me know if I didn't get that right. Still awaiting the isk Blueprint Store
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp	Posted - 2009.04.25 01:55:00 - [46] That number looks correct. I want to make note, though, that it should never have been a question of whether you'd pay the bond if DBANK failed. If you were not acting as an insurer, you'd have offered the full return and simply brokered the transfers between investors and DBANK. By offering a reduced rate, you stood to make ISK in the (now true) event that DBANK stands, and if not, you lose. So, I am looking forward to the payment (which seems so much smaller now than it did when I invested it, heh) but I am unimpressed by the discussion that seems to have taken place here over the last few months. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%)
Vikarion Caldari White Rose Society	Posted - 2009.04.25 20:45:00 - [47] In the end, he did the right thing (or, will have once he sends the ISK), and that's what matters to me. I would advise Brock to think more carefully about the meaning of "insurance" before his next offering, however.
Azerath Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.26 06:29:00 - [48] Such a waste of forums space. Anyone, including myself that's been in the investing game for over a year now can look at a one bil bond and go "meh." He could scam the whole thing, and it would be a small bump in the road. Isk is so inflated now it's not overly worth arguing with someone for such a small amount, that is somewhat known in the community. Just my two cents, Azerath --------------------------------------------
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.04.26 16:57:00 - [49] All of the investors were paid back plus 32% interest. I might do this again in the future but not anytime soon. Blueprint Store

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Flux Technologies Inc Bond Offering