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Sir Magnuss
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Posted - 2008.12.23 05:57:00 -
[1]
This is gonna sound harsh, but can anyone tell me (and I dont mind if its bias) whats the BEST race to start new Characters for pvp....
your comments are respectfully acknowlegded in advance
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.23 06:43:00 -
[2]
Erm...any? All races are good in different ways. Keep in mind your character is something you'll be improving in the long run, so I wouldn't worry too much about short term power.
 Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Sir Magnuss
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Posted - 2008.12.23 07:01:00 -
[3]
lol ok... sorry I may have been a little Vague there.... what Race would most people consider is More favourably Bias by CCP for a combat Pilot....
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.23 07:33:00 -
[4]
For what else would I be talking about? Racial industrial ships/t2 indies/freighters all fulfill mostly the same purpose and aren't too different, and mining ships are non-racial.
What you're looking for is the flavor of the month, the race/fitting/ship that is considered most overpowered at the current moment. Since you seem to want that, so train for ECM, go for a Falcon.
I know you're not going to listen to the following advice because your goal is to exploit perceived imbalances, but it's a ****ty idea to train FotM just because it's FotM because then it will get nerfed and you'll be *****ing and moaning endlessly because your entire playstyle will become compromised.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.23 07:35:00 -
[5]
Race is meaningless. Skills are what matter, and any race character can train to fly any kind of ships. I would say that Minmatar are very strong in the frigate class, Gallente have the best cruisers, and Amarr are outstanding at battleships. Caldari have um... a big freighter?
.............
Now recruiting like-minded pilots. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.12.23 08:12:00 -
[6]
There's no one best, only a best for a situation.
Generalising you could state the following;
Minmatar; PVP bias (not so good for pve), small, fast and agile ships but lack in raw firepower or uber tanking. They mostly offer the tactical solution to a pvp problem and are very versatile (which is both a pro as a con). Focus on frigates, cruisers and BC's. Need a lot of training to start working.
Amarr; pvp bias although decent in PVE if you pick your targets. "bricks in space" apart from a select few. Not very agile but can deliver proper damage at midrange meaning there's less need for mobility. Not very versatile, good at one thing (sit still and bring the hurt) but very easy to counter. focus on BC, HAC and BS.
Gallente; great mix of both PVP and PVE. PVPwise they're short range brawlers, very much "in your face" approach, go in fast, grab them and mess up their day real pronto. Decently versatile shipwise and a nice roundup of ships, apart from frigates.
Caldari; king of PVE, not so good at solo/small gang pvp but have very useful fleet ships. Their ECM support is second to none, they favour shield tanking which has it's downsides regarding pvp but in a group they can perform well.
Pick a playing style and match the general racial tactics.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.23 17:02:00 -
[7]
After QR Caldari aren't really the kings of PVE. What made them so good before is that you could fly a Raven through level 4s with very very minimal skills. Now that doesn't work. You need drone skills and missile support skills or you're ****ed.
I would avoid picking a faction based on PVE prowess. PVE is generally just something to make money in EVE. It's not really too challenging and all races have ships that can do it quite well. Even the minmatar, who are considered the worst PVEers, wont really have any issues.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.23 19:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
After QR Caldari aren't really the kings of PVE. What made them so good before is that you could fly a Raven through level 4s with very very minimal skills. Now that doesn't work. You need drone skills and missile support skills or you're ****ed.
I would avoid picking a faction based on PVE prowess. PVE is generally just something to make money in EVE. It's not really too challenging and all races have ships that can do it quite well. Even the minmatar, who are considered the worst PVEers, wont really have any issues.
The skills needed to work a Raven through an L4 only require the addition of a target painter. Besides, most of the hardcore L4 runners DO have excellent missile support skills. The Raven still excels in PvE because of its damage type versatility, which few other races come close to matching.
As far as the Caldari in PvP. For all the lip service paid to their supposed incompetence, you can't swing a dead clone and not hit a Falcon or a Crow in a nanogang. They're as ubiquitous to Caldari pilots as Vagabonds are to Minmatar pilots for fast ops.
For fleet actions, Ravens are still the POS bomber of choice, Rokhs are mainstay snipers, EWAR frigates and cruisers abound, and I still see more Onyxes than any of the other hictor types. The Phoenix is one of the most desirable dreadnoughts because of damage type flexibility, and the Chimera has one of the best tanks among carriers, making it ideal for sitting in the middle of a firefight providing support.
The reality is, though, with enough training, you can be completely competent in any ship you get into, its simply how you choose to try and use it that defines your relative effectiveness.
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.23 19:16:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 23/12/2008 19:16:24
Quote:
The skills needed to work a Raven through an L4 only require the addition of a target painter. Besides, most of the hardcore L4 runners DO have excellent missile support skills. The Raven still excels in PvE because of its damage type versatility, which few other races come close to matching.
Gallente drone boats use any damage type, and even rails/blasters work just fine against anything but blood/sansha and Angel rats. Amarr ships run missions very quickly against ships in their own space...which isn't really an issue given that Sansha/blood missions give the best salvage anyway. And minmatar have damage type versatility as well.
Most hardcore missioners EVENTUALLY have good support skills, but they don't NEED them. A newbie with 3 million SP could run level 4s because prior to QR you did NOT need good missile support skills or drone skills to skirt by most missions.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Marguerite Antiki
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Posted - 2008.12.23 20:05:00 -
[10]
Jove FTW
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Easy Target
Minmatar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.23 22:22:00 -
[11]
Remember in eve your race doesnt really effect anything apart from your physical portrait looks and your starting skills / attributes
When people refer to Minmatar being good at PvP, it is the ships, not the charactors
I am minmatar as a race, but I can train to fly any ship I want and be just as effective as anyone else with the same skills.
Race choice should be based one:
One you like the back story of - religious nutter? Slave? Military? Democracy?
Like the portrait - you have to look at it
Attributes - effect learning skills
Starting skills - Makes the start a bit easier, frigate level 3 for example means you can buy your starting races top combat frigate from the off
You get about a months worth of skills when you start, when you consider that some people have been playing eve for 5+ years, 1 month isnt a lot
Long term, not short term
-----------------------------------------------
No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.12.24 01:01:00 -
[12]
I believe the following option should be pointed out if you plan on never wanting to train charisma based skills. The Caldari Achura (?) is the min max pilot in the game. It allows you to gimp your charism to 3. Skill point aquistion being the predominate factor to character skill learning would make this a potential "best pilot" to start with.
That being said I have also heard some individuals ridicule individuals that choose this pilot bloodline since it was introduced later in EVE's history. I personally have no opinion on the matter. I chose who I was based on the reasons that Easy Target pointe out first.
Enjoy.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.24 01:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
That being said I have also heard some individuals ridicule individuals that choose this pilot bloodline since it was introduced later in EVE's history.
That's not why we ridicule them. We ridicule them because the Achura are an ugly, gimped race, and because the very act of choosing an Achura character is proof positive that you are a min-maxing WOW transplant who loves grinding and grinds PVE solely for the purpose of grinding. It indicates a person without a shred of romance or humor, who has absolutely zero interest in the sci-fi roleplaying part of EVE and just wants to score more "points" than his friends in junior high school.
But, go Achura if you want.
.............
Now recruiting like-minded pilots. |
gfldex
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.24 02:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sir Magnuss
lol ok... sorry I may have been a little Vague there.... what Race would most people consider is More favourably Bias by CCP for a combat Pilot....
None. CCP finds nerf targets by looking into their database and finding ships of any given class that are used a lot more then other ships of the same class. Then they start to nerf those ships until ppl stop to favour them.
I started to skill for Amarr BS a long time ago. Then switched to Caldari, followed Gallente. I'm now back in Amarr BS.
If your question should make any sense at all you will have to ask what race is favoured by CCP when you are done with skilling for it. If you can find a way to answer that question please call me. I have interest to go into the stock market.
--
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Iria Ahrens
Amarr
101st Space Marine Force
The Leathernecks
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Posted - 2008.12.24 03:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 24/12/2008 03:44:26
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
. We ridicule them because the Achura are an ugly, gimped race, and because the very act of choosing an Achura character is proof positive that you are a min-maxing WOW transplant who loves grinding and grinds PVE solely for the purpose of grinding. It indicates a person without a shred of romance or humor, who has absolutely zero interest in the sci-fi roleplaying part of EVE and just wants to score more "points" than his friends in junior high school.
What utter nonsense. My first Eve character was an Acura female. I thought the females look hot, and Caldari had the best ECM ships. I don't see why you think the males are ugly either. They look cool too, so long as you don't make the cheekbones too high or full.
Before I finished my tutorial though, I switched to Amarr. Everyone I knew said not to do it, because Amarr were a gimp race. But I liked the RP aspects, and the kanid and Amarr races looked very cool and, in general, the gold ships looked cooler :P
At the time, I really hated the red strips painted on most Caldari ships. If they had the current paint scheme, I would probably have stuck with it. Hawks are some of the sexiest ships in space.
--
Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
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Sir Magnuss
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Posted - 2008.12.24 04:26:00 -
[16]
ok... thankyou all so much for the response....
In general, I get the distinct idea that all races have their Pro's and Con's, and that on a constant basis CCP sytematically nerf the most popular to equalise the balance...
Which leaves me in a delema.... stay with what I have already got, and perservre.... or start again(not the prefered option)
Thanks again all
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Strel Samodelkin
Caldari Nationalist Party
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Posted - 2008.12.24 09:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Sir Magnuss
lol ok... sorry I may have been a little Vague there.... what Race would most people consider is More favourably Bias by CCP for a combat Pilot....
None. CCP finds nerf targets by looking into their database and finding ships of any given class that are used a lot more then other ships of the same class. Then they start to nerf those ships until ppl stop to favour them.
LOL! I doubt they do this, that would be a very bad business strategy.
I play Caldari. I breeze through level 4 missions and often go AFK to grab a cup of tea while being fired on by a dozen battleships. It is quite profitable. And speaking of profit, I don't have to worry about getting my standing too low with other races, because JITA (the MAIN trading hub) is located... you guessed where, in glorious Caldari State territory, so I can go there anytime I want despite how low my Gallente Federation standing gets. I find much profit making opportunity in Caldari space. And... because...
1) Gallente are French pansies.
2) Minmatar couldn't fight off subjugation by the Amarr? They're not so tough.
3) The Amarr are religious maniacs.
 My .02 isk.
Caldari Nationalist Party |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.12.24 10:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 24/12/2008 10:33:18
Originally by: Strel Samodelkin
Originally by: gfldex
None. CCP finds nerf targets by looking into their database and finding ships of any given class that are used a lot more then other ships of the same class. Then they start to nerf those ships until ppl stop to favour them.
LOL! I doubt they do this, that would be a very bad business strategy.
Actually, it makes sense. If a shiptype is far more used than others it's probably because it's better at it's job than those others. If it becomes overused because it's a LOT better then it's not balanced and needs to be looked at.
The reason they haven't touched the Raven's superiority for so long is twofold; 1)it wasn't as good in PVP so that kinda balanced out. 2) Full missionrunners aren't exactly versatile players who play the game as it's supposed to be, to a point where they shield themselves off from the rest of the players/game to just do the PVE bit. An exxageration ofcourse but it does hold true for many. CCP really didn't want to upset that group and lose revenue, especially so since mission running is one of the few ways to introduce isk into the economy.
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Johann Callasan
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Posted - 2008.12.24 16:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sir Magnuss
This is gonna sound harsh, but can anyone tell me (and I dont mind if its bias) whats the BEST race to start new Characters for pvp....
your comments are respectfully acknowlegded in advance
Being that you can crosstrain for ANY race's ships and gear, this question is relatively meaningless.
Race and specialty choices only influence what starting set of attributes and skills you start with.
Attributes affect trainign time for new skills - and nothing else. Flying a ship and fighting it in EvE is PURELY based ont he player's RL skill - NOTHING in game influences it.
Skills inthe game are either "unlockers' (open up a new type of module or ship), OR "enhancers" (allow you to do something in EvE better/more efficiently).
Your wetware counts for a LOT more than anything else here
As a general rule:
Attributes are grouped in pairs for most things. Ship and gunnery skills take PERCEPTION and WILLPOWER.
Support, industrial skills take INTELLIGENCE and MEMORY.
Charisma is usualy used int he Social and leadership skills - not real useful when you start out, and even less so later on UNLESS you want mindlinks or to perform roles in corporations. Still not worth getting too high at the outset.
Attributes can be raised through implants and learning skills by bout +17 or so (+5 basic learning, +5 advanced learning, +2 or so from learning V).
So, again, race choce doesn't matter all that much, and there IS NO COMPETITION for skillpoints - it's entirely possible for a new player with 2M SP who's smart, to kill someone with 50M SP who's either dumb or having a really bad day :)
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