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Concept: why do we pay?

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Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 09:58:00 - [1] Why do we pay to play eve? For me the satisfaction I get by competing sets the adrenaline high, the whole game chain from the very first time you activate the basic miner till the end game which for me is the destruction of my ship, provides almost the same competition feeling as in RL. This makes me want to hand away my hard earned cash, i want to be better faster richer than others, greed indeed! Eve replicates real economies and most importantly it provides the base for anyone to forget it is just a game, because it is not! I have learned loads of things from eve that have and still help me in RL business that i am currently involved, i can even say that the past 4 years i learned and created more while living(not playing) eve than my 4 years in university. How financial power drives pretty much everything, how the map is revolting around resources and shaping takes place when difficulties arise within or between factions, the only thing that you can say it is not real, is how fast the world of eve moves. Thats because deep inside we know its a game, and we take and make decisions-actions much faster that we would in RL, another reason is the fact that death is not an issue here haha imagine a world like eve where your character would disappear forever after the destruction of your pod, only the soul(you) would remained to live in a new shape and character from birth to death again. Maybe the only mmo with REAL pvp that is based in REAL pain for losing something of REAL value based on REAL politics that are based in REAL drive for profit that is based in REAL man hours to produce, a circle that never ends! Enough of that for now, lets talk about why do we pay for eve, no no i am not saying that we shouldn't, it is only logical for CCP to need real currency to upkeep the game, and obviously profit from it, nothing wrong here, they have made the greatest game and they deserve every single cent that we give them. In relation with real life in eve you only get free access with the trial period, of which is not even enough to understand less than 1% of the game that is shown to you, and most importantly the knowledge that there is way more out there than you could even think. In RL though things are totally different, you have plenty of time before you are actually required to pay back, bills, taxes etc My proposal is to make eve free to access by anyone, yes you read right but let me explain further before you start launching bananas at me, by saying free i mean ôfreeö, you could log to the game or your other life called it as you like and chat, explore, run missions, trade, mine, even train skills so to have enough time to fully appreciate EVE, Chat, do that freely Explore, in high sec systems only, maybe do not allow ôfree accessö players in low sec Mission running, just level 1 missions maybe even lvl2 with less money and loot drop for those characters trade, hell without many isks you can't trade that much its not like they are going to flood the market with basic miners and will really hurt anyone mine, as much as you like! Train skills, only rank 1 skills, nothing else. Join corps freely in other words, let the game prove its value to newcomers, they will be hooked within a month or two, 15 days or even 20 days is way to little time Its not one time i have heard by fellow mmo players that tried EVE and their feedback makes you thing they are talking for and unknown to you game, surely not EVE, boring/pointless/nothing to do other than launching little light bulbs towards various sized red crosses on your overview and seeing your wallet tab go ôBLINKö once the target explodes in a flash. I mean i get so frustrated, that WOW players boo eve for being boring, WOW players!!! WOW is boring, hell i could even say i prefer to watch the ceiling change color by my cigarette smoke and actually wait for it to happen!
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 09:59:00 - [2] For the old player that is already hooked that changes nothing in the short term, maybe we will have more targets to grief and teach those noobs the real EVE :) but other than that no real bad effects, on the long term on the other hand this could provide eve the much needed newcomers that will eventually become the hardcore fanatics of eve and when you the old hobo will cancel your account due to RL or whatever reasons they will be there to take your place Another good for the oldies out there, ghost training? Thats history, but with a system like that if your sub expire you could train a rank one skill(if you have any left) of which they will be so low in gain against players that do pay, that it will have no impact, your character will get only 0.0000001 %(random number) better than he was before, log into the game, learn about the new politics from the inside, see your friends that i am sure will ôforceö you to activate your account so you could join them in the current active campaign, listening and reading current situations, have made me activate my accounts many times in the past just because they got me so excited, on the other hand if i didn't had msn with my eve corp mates added i wouldn't be able to know what is going on. Hence i wouldn't care to join! For CCP more money flow is always good i think For the server, it might get a few ks more active players, but i do not think it will stretch the workload, as those players will be limited to few of the functions In other words, ôfreeö access to the game for those who can provide credit/debit card verification, we do not want to get full with 12 years olds smacking local just because... Remember, it is just an idea and i am not saying that eve should be like that, but i think it keeps happy all sides!
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:20:00 - [3] Because we have no brains, and are far wiser to waste our time doing something that, in 5 years, might actually mean something. The Ghost-training vote thread
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:28:00 - [4] Edited by: Grash Freedom on 23/12/2008 10:31:37 Originally by: Gunnanmon Because we have no brains, and are far wiser to waste our time doing something that, in 5 years, might actually mean something. my point exactly, eve gives you way more than you give, i have payed almost 2000 euro to run 3 accounts those 4 years, yet i have gained way more that in real life have helped me to pay the bills, if new players understant that they will invest in eve as they do in education and gain from it and actually do not waste time in really pointless mmos they might actually do it
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:04:00 - [5] tis a shame that rank 3 skills are some of the best skills. the problem with that is there are too many restrictions. eves ideal is about freedom for all players. ship size is restricted so that means you arent gonna get alot out of a young player. i dont even think u can use t2 frigs.
Phreeze Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:10:00 - [6] ...because compared to other forms of entertainment, 15 bucks a month for the amount of hours I log is quite a bargain. Also I like blowing up internet spaceships.
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Sargeant HAmmer tis a shame that rank 3 skills are some of the best skills. the problem with that is there are too many restrictions. eves ideal is about freedom for all players. ship size is restricted so that means you arent gonna get alot out of a young player. i dont even think u can use t2 frigs. if you could train all skills and be totally free then why pay? the reason of the logic above is to give new players more time to learn and get hooked to the game, their trial would have expired in 15 days anyhow, and wouldn't be able to train higher rank 3 skills only if they payed for the game, but the problem is that they to not like the game at first sight. But if you manage to actually want to train higher skill this will motivate you to activate your full account.
Sargeant HAmmer Caldari Hammers Academy	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:16:00 - [8] the skills are already limited
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:22:00 - [9] Yeap but trial accounts do not even have the chance to get to the point to train forbitten skills for them, so its not much of point to forbit somethign that you can't actually do in the 15 days time all i am saying is that trial accounts serves no purpose, the 15 day time that ccp gives to trials is not enough for a new player to get hooked up, ofcourse there will be limits to no payed accounts, else nobody would pay, but it will provide much better experience to newcommers and let them learn a bit about the world that they joined
Suneai Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:32:00 - [10] I think saying only allow Rank 1 skills to be trained is pushing the limitations a bit far, in terms of spaceship command that'll allow you to fly jack gimping a major factor of the gameplay that draws people in. You wouldn't even be able to train the Frigates for other races as those are Rank 2... I'd say up to rank 4 skills as that'll allow you to fly a few decent ships (Assault, Industrial) with equipment to do the level 2 missions and some basic and more efficient mining. As for the only being able to fly in high-sec freely, a major problem arises here... this would mean the developers would have to re-network entire regions of the game as there many with high-sec that can only be accessed by passing through low-sec systems. It could easily be re-designed, but that would have a possibility of ruining set routes for older players. The concept behind this is a really good one, it won't have much impact on me as I'd continue to pay normally but it would definitely be a good idea to open up the game mechanics a bit more to new pilots.

Marguerite Antiki	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:38:00 - [11] Read it - and god I hope you dont work - period - and stay at home. Thats like saying why do we pay for Car Rego or Pay Tolls. The system is built but why pay for it if I only use some of it thats at a different time of day or doesnt utilise the full service - therefore it should be free. Or better yet, lets open a business where we sell mobile phones, but we give them away free to people who talk nice on them and use it for work purposes and only charge those people who use it to call those sleazy phone lines. Thats a real good way to undermine yourself, but overall - I am paying a company for a service, it is my choice whether I use the whole service or part of it. If there was a problem with that, I would leave. Cheers :)
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Phreeze ...because compared to other forms of entertainment, 15 bucks a month for the amount of hours I log is quite a bargain. Also I like blowing up internet spaceships. ^^ This. Given what I'd do with my money if I didn't spend my time blowing up internet spaceships, I'd go so far as to say that EVE actually saves me a ton of cash each month… No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:08:00 - [13] No, 14 days is plenty of time to decide whether or not you want to play an MMORPG. Some of your restrictions are even worse than the current trial system like not being allowed in low sec (which is where the pvp happens and EVE is a pvp game) and not being able to run missions for any decent amount of money. Showing people a gutted game is no way to get new players to sign up. The current system works fine, it gives trial accounts as much access to the game as possible but restrictions placed only so that evil players won't exploit intended game mechanics. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Gonada Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:14:00 - [14] stupid idea. Please, jump into traffic
Malephar	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Gonada stupid idea. constructive comment.
Shirow Miyazaki Amarr I.Z.U Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.23 12:50:00 - [16] I used to be concerned about spending time on MMOs, with the fear that they could just switch whatever game I was playing off and i'd have nothing to show for all the time and money invested, however, i realised that time spent enjoying yourself isn't time wasted.
Darth Vaders Caldari Divine Slaves	Posted - 2008.12.23 13:22:00 - [17] I like your idea. It would bring loads of people into the game as long as the server could work sufficiently. I would suggest to change the topic's tittle into "Idea for bringning the masses into eve" . That could actually give this thread the interest it should have.
The Tzar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2008.12.23 13:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Phreeze ...because compared to other forms of entertainment, 15 bucks a month for the amount of hours I log is quite a bargain. Also I like blowing up internet spaceships. ^^ This. Given what I'd do with my money if I didn't spend my time blowing up internet spaceships, I'd go so far as to say that EVE actually saves me a ton of cash each monthà Yup, agreed! __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 13:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Marguerite Antiki Read it - and god I hope you dont work - period - and stay at home. Thats like saying why do we pay for Car Rego or Pay Tolls. The system is built but why pay for it if I only use some of it thats at a different time of day or doesnt utilise the full service - therefore it should be free. Or better yet, lets open a business where we sell mobile phones, but we give them away free to people who talk nice on them and use it for work purposes and only charge those people who use it to call those sleazy phone lines. Thats a real good way to undermine yourself, but overall - I am paying a company for a service, it is my choice whether I use the whole service or part of it. If there was a problem with that, I would leave. Cheers :) no need to get too personal mate, but i guess that everybody behind a keyboard and the internet cloud are harder than real life, i bet in person we would have had o more constructive convo instead of insulting before greeting :) first of all i do not know if my first post is good or not, to me it just seems better than the current system, sure ideas that came in a minutes time can't be 100% correct secondly i am not proposing free gameplay, hell even if CCP decided to up the fee i would agree, their service is top notch and the ammount of rl money i save by not wasting in nonsense because i play eve is more than 14 euro per month. on your example, you are right nobody gives you free mobiles, but they give you free access to the service, you can get a pay as you go card for free and use it 100% exept make calls, people may call you but you cannot call them back, you need to pay for a top up card, you have the ability to try the service then decide if you are going to pay for it. Tolls you say? you do not pay tolls every time you start your car, you can use local roads that are in decent shape but do not have the quality and the speed that highways have, thats why you pay tolls, the rest of the roads are free to use but not as fast or safe oh come on, go out there and search peeps that used trial as a first start with eve, at least 90% of those who tried it will tell you that EVE is boring! at least that what my friends that tried it tell me. another 6-8% will tell you that they liked it but looked like it needs to much time, i bet only 1-2% actually start the game and maybe even less keep the account for more than a month rank 1 is little? make it rank 3, not good as well? no problem change the speed of training in those accounts, make it 4 times slower than regular accounts or cut the attributes by 6-7 each that way those accounts will train much slower but they will have the ability to experience the game and then decide if they want to pay for it, else they will stop, or something else, there must be a formula that will keep them happy
Arri Gato Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.23 13:44:00 - [20] Personally, I think you are on to something... Maybe with a few changes...

Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 13:51:00 - [21] Edited by: Grash Freedom on 23/12/2008 13:53:18 Originally by: Vaal Erit No, 14 days is plenty of time to decide whether or not you want to play an MMORPG. Some of your restrictions are even worse than the current trial system like not being allowed in low sec (which is where the pvp happens and EVE is a pvp game) and not being able to run missions for any decent amount of money. Showing people a gutted game is no way to get new players to sign up. The current system works fine, it gives trial accounts as much access to the game as possible but restrictions placed only so that evil players won't exploit intended game mechanics. i am with you 100% EVE is a pvp game period, please tell me one trial account player that managed to experience pvp in those 14 days and actually liked it, and when i say experienced i do not mean to get blown up by 7-10 pirates in low sec. eve is much more than that, I when i joined my corp managed to actually pvp probably 20-30days later and not because i didn't want to but because i was deadweight for my corp mates till at least 30 days later, So the greatest aspect of eve pvp we keep it it from trial players, which in my opinion is totally wrong, we should advertise it as mad, no other game provides such a pvp experience and eve should be proud for it
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:06:00 - [22] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 23/12/2008 14:07:36 Originally by: Phreeze ...because compared to other forms of entertainment, 15 bucks a month for the amount of hours I log is quite a bargain. Also I like blowing up internet spaceships. Aye. And dividing the game by letting some stuff free is pretty much plain old dumb. Come one, EVE should have equal opportunities and rules for all the players.
Sirus Ade Unknown Soldiers Soldiers Of New Eve	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:19:00 - [23] It's rubbish that the trial period isn't long enough. Think about it. How many hooked players are there at the moment? They all started with a 14 day free trial. I've introduced this game to countless players and they've all been hooked after a day or so. Surely you were also hooked with that free trial period?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Sirus Ade It's rubbish that the trial period isn't long enough. Think about it. How many hooked players are there at the moment? They all started with a 14 day free trial. I've introduced this game to countless players and they've all been hooked after a day or so. Surely you were also hooked with that free trial period? and the steam version gives you 3 weeks. However I believe a better intro to the game is needed. One where you have to set up another noob ship, and then you set out, and get taken out. or they could start off new players in a really nice faction ship, given to them by them byb the school, so for instance, a firetail for matar players. This ship is promptly lost in the tutorial which should be seperate from the game world. Then thier teacher where they graduated form gets all mad and says something about getting used to it, not flying what he can't afford to lose, and giving him a noob ship and some isk to start back with from square one. However he also makes sure to point out that he still has his training as long as he keeps his clone up to date. Some RP would make the game easier to understand.
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Sirus Ade It's rubbish that the trial period isn't long enough. Think about it. How many hooked players are there at the moment? They all started with a 14 day free trial. I've introduced this game to countless players and they've all been hooked after a day or so. Surely you were also hooked with that free trial period? Sure i was, but i am that type of player that have patience probably you as well, i clicked with the game the very first minute, we are the 1-2% of the trial pie, it is just so sad to see on other forums, wow, lotro, AoC say that eve is boring, they are clueless ofcourse. i have given 10 trial keys the past 4 years, only one of those 10 got hooked up and still has and active account. Eve should had way more active subs than it have today.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:29:00 - [26] Originally by: Sirus Ade It's rubbish that the trial period isn't long enough. Think about it. How many hooked players are there at the moment? They all started with a 14 day free trial. I've introduced this game to countless players and they've all been hooked after a day or so. Surely you were also hooked with that free trial period? CCP could improve it though. If you don't know much about the game and just try it out, you might not be aware about all the options you have in the game. I'm sort of interested to see what CCP does in the march expansion to improve new player experience. I'll propably try the newbies life again then. Introducing new players to more aspects of EVE than just mining and missioning would be a great addition anyways. Generally there is much that can be done to improve the accessability of information in the game. More comprehensive new player experience combined with an improved wiki would propably go a long way in helping things.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:36:00 - [27] not knowing everyting about the game at the start is what kept me playing eve. Always something more to explore and figure out.
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.12.23 15:21:00 - [28] Good lord NOOOO. Every game that has some half assed free to play but restricted deal has always been a terible idea. And tbh i think it would be more utilized by character farmers then anyone else. But with that said i could see lengthing the trial a bit, maybe 21 days, and make the buddy pass program a full month? Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint


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