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Ivar Strahm
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Posted - 2008.12.25 00:53:00 -
[1]
Given the influx of new players to this forum, I've decided to write a series of market tutorials that can be downloaded by those with an interest in how to trade but don't quite know where to start.
Tutorials (as of 2008-12-24):
Market Trading 101 - http://eve-files.com/dl/182201
Right now there is only the one. I'd like to say I'll do more, but that will only happen if real life abides. Well, that and I get some positive feedback. 
Love it? Hate it? Want to see more? Drop me a line. I'd especially like to hear from you if you have suggestions on how to make this tutorial better, or if you have ideas for future tutorials.
Cheers!
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.12.25 02:14:00 -
[2]
I didn't get a chance to read the content but the PDF layout really does look quite clean. Not too over-crowded and its well balanced. You could probably get in touch with Eve-University. They have a few trade guides of their own and I am sure they would be happy to share data (I think theirs is public somewhere anyway)
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Packtu'sa
Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.25 02:26:00 -
[3]
It looks to me like the "Tips and Tricks" part at the end is the most useful. I tend to think that the majority of players know how the market screens work; it's other things that trip them up, like the trading/trucking difference, and the minerals-I-mine-are-free ideology.
Packtu'sa
Founder/CEO, Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp (2bn @ 4.5%) |
Ivar Strahm
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Posted - 2008.12.25 02:29:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
I didn't get a chance to read the content but the PDF layout really does look quite clean. Not too over-crowded and its well balanced. You could probably get in touch with Eve-University. They have a few trade guides of their own and I am sure they would be happy to share data (I think theirs is public somewhere anyway)
I loves me my tidy layout. 
For the first tutorial I wanted to cover the most basic elements, at the risk of making it only truly useful for those that are just beginning. I have a few ideas for the next installments, time permitting, but will be looking to some of the other guides and community suggestions for topic inspiration.
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Ivar Strahm
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Posted - 2008.12.25 02:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Packtu'sa
It looks to me like the "Tips and Tricks" part at the end is the most useful. I tend to think that the majority of players know how the market screens work; it's other things that trip them up, like the trading/trucking difference, and the minerals-I-mine-are-free ideology.
This is exactly my thinking. Although the introduction to how buy and sell orders work and relate is definitely in the realm of "extremely basic knowledge", I wanted to be sure to include it as the fundamental answer to what everyone means when we say "Buy low, sell high". This really is a ground-floor guide that I hope to build on. Hopefully the explanations of which orders you actually buy from and why, when you pay broker's fees and taxes, and the tips at the end will give the guide at least some value for players that aren't completely new.
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Dakt NiRuthgar
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Posted - 2008.12.25 06:51:00 -
[6]
I can't seem to get the pdf to work or download >_<
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JorEl Tarasque
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Posted - 2008.12.25 08:11:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the guide.
Layout looks great so far.
I've been in Eve for two years and am just now starting to get into trading.
I dont' think there should be any place to start but at the 'basics'!
Hope to see more come out with with more details some of the strategies from all of the experienced traders.
Thanks again,
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2008.12.25 11:03:00 -
[8]
Nice basic tutorial. Well layed out. One thing you might mention is that the default is to fit the screen all in one page. I had to adjust that to fit to the width of my page in order to be able to read the text.
Glad to see the section on how buying and selling works. Most people have no idea that they can't buy something with a higher price but will always buy from the bidder with the lowest price.
In my descriptions of that, I make use of the word Bid to describe the process. You are not "buying" and "selling" you are placing bids to do so and the person with the best bid will win the order. The example I use to illustrate this is from my own experience, where someone decided they were going to buy out the market. I had the low bid and there was one other guy they wanted to buy out. What they should have done - was to buy MY stuff first - but they bought the other guys first. That mean that they paid me the other guys higher price AND then had to go back and pay him his higher price as well to get his stuff.
There was a comment above about people thinking their minerals are free and this being an ideology. If you decide to go into that as part of a later chapter it is important to explain it so that a new person will understand it.
The issue isn't whether or not the things you mine or salvage are free - they are free - it is how can you best use these items to your advantage. Here, the usual complaint is that people are selling modules for below the sum cost of their minerals. Here, again, the problem isn't that the people who are manufacturing the modules think that their minerals were free - since they were - it is that they don't know the value of those minerals and are forgoing the profits they could be making by simply selling the minerals for the item instead of selling the item at below it's mineral value.
Trying to argue with these people that their minerals are not free - when they are - is starting from a false position and will end up failing to convince them that they are, not so much losing money, as failing to gain what they might. I.E. Maximizing Their Profits.
What would help here - is to teach potential traders to look at the minerals it takes to make an item, then look at the ISK they could make from selling those minerals directly. This is their Base Price which they should not go below. Then they should look at their costs to manufacture an item and what they can sell it for. If they can sell the item (minus it's production costs) for more than the cost of it's minerals) then they should go ahead, make the item and sell it. If someone is bidding a lower price for their item than their Base Price - they should just hold onto their inventory until the person bidding against them has exhausted their inventory - or - cancel their bid and take their items to another region where they will fetch a better price.
The above touches on something I like to call the Market Chain. This is Mining > Refining > Manufacturing > Transportation > Trading. Each step in this process is essential and costs incurred any where along the line need to be figured in. Some of those costs are not clear though unless you can place a value on your time. Here is where you get into the Opportunity Costs associated with the Market Chain. If it takes you an excess of time to accomplish one part of the chain when you could be devoting yourself to another part that would lead you to greater profits then you are making a mistake. Thus, if you can get a really good buy on something but have to travel an exceedingly long distance to buy it at that price - and could have been mining and refining the item yourself (or within your corp) instead - then the long trip wasn't worth it.
Mostly what happens, is if you do something for a while, you get a feel for things and don't have to use a spread sheet, unless you're really trying to cut things to a very fine edge. But you do need to be aware of them.
Faction Schools
Orbiting vs. Kiting |
Ivar Strahm
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Posted - 2008.12.25 13:23:00 -
[9]
Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions! My goal, in terms of aesthetics, was to present the information in a clear, well-ordered way, and based on the feedback it seems that I did something right.
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
There was a comment above about people thinking their minerals are free and this being an ideology. If you decide to go into that as part of a later chapter it is important to explain it so that a new person will understand it.
The issue isn't whether or not the things you mine or salvage are free - they are free - it is how can you best use these items to your advantage. Here, the usual complaint is that people are selling modules for below the sum cost of their minerals. Here, again, the problem isn't that the people who are manufacturing the modules think that their minerals were free - since they were - it is that they don't know the value of those minerals and are forgoing the profits they could be making by simply selling the minerals for the item instead of selling the item at below it's mineral value.
Trying to argue with these people that their minerals are not free - when they are - is starting from a false position and will end up failing to convince them that they are, not so much losing money, as failing to gain what they might. I.E. Maximizing Their Profits.
What would help here - is to teach potential traders to look at the minerals it takes to make an item, then look at the ISK they could make from selling those minerals directly. This is their Base Price which they should not go below. Then they should look at their costs to manufacture an item and what they can sell it for. If they can sell the item (minus it's production costs) for more than the cost of it's minerals then they should go ahead, make the item and sell it. If someone is bidding a lower price for their item than their Base Price - they should just hold onto their inventory until the person bidding against them has exhausted their inventory - or - cancel their bid and take their items to another region where they will fetch a better price.
Last night I decided that my next tutorial is going to cover a few common trading strategies. In other words, explaining things like diversification, specialization and recycling/reprocessing for profit. Exposing the error of selling items below mineral cost would form the foundation of the latter.
As a manufacturer, I would really like to do a manufacturing tutorial where this issue could be addressed directly, but right now I'm looking to write guides specifically geared toward MD and I worry that a manufacturing guide would be slightly off-topic. Nevertheless, it's on my list.
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Wolf Merc
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Posted - 2008.12.25 13:59:00 -
[10]
Good tutorial , i'v learn somthing ,thanks
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Ubermensch Purifier
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Posted - 2008.12.25 18:13:00 -
[11]
downloaded, thanks!
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.25 18:13:00 -
[12]
Nice tutorial - one thing that could be added is a basic explanation of the price history graph/table, although I understand you might be saving that for the strategy guides.
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Adrien Moreau
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Posted - 2008.12.26 13:26:00 -
[13]
Looks great, Ivar.
I also found the Tips & Tricks section to be the most useful.
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Amaandia
Third Return Inc.
Blue Sun Trust
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Posted - 2008.12.26 15:24:00 -
[14]
Think this is one of the best basic introductions to trade I have seen so far. Very in depth.
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