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The Manticore & Crow as they are now

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Rocky Roid Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:35:00 - [1] I have used my free 5 days and just reactivated my account for another month. Before I left (10 months ago) my favorite 2 ships were the manticore and crow. I have returned to find that both have taken big changes. I have trained almost exclusivley for these 2 ships because that is what I like to fly. I have my raven for ratting in 0.0 and thats all I want from big ships. I have read lots of posts on the missile nerfs and there has been a big decrease in speed for the crow. I am not good with the ever changing mechanics of eve and find it hard to keep up with and was looking for some input on tactics and fits for these ships and how the ships roles have changed. Please no complaining about what CCP have done, just some helpfull advice on how to get the best from the main 2 ships I have trained for. Merry xmas and happy new year!
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:36:00 - [2] Reprocess them. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Jovoich Infestation.	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:38:00 - [3] Assault ships are bloody amazing now, I would look at starting to use the Harpy and Hawk. Both are small frigate sized ships and your skills shouldnt be too hard to cross over I call 'Bull****' CCP. Isn't it great that the alchemy process was introduced & can 'take up the slack?'
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:42:00 - [4] Yeah, assaultfrigs are awesome :D The price of Ishkurs has doubled since the patch :P I don't really care about the missile nerf though, I've trained up my missile skills to 4 these past months, and I'll soon be training caldari cruiser V to be able to fly all the caldari tech 2 cruisers :> I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here!
Rocky Roid Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Jovoich Assault ships are bloody amazing now, I would look at starting to use the Harpy and Hawk. Both are small frigate sized ships and your skills shouldnt be too hard to cross over Yea I have been considering that for pvp ops with my corp. Are there any changes planned for the crow and manticore? Or are CCP leaving them as they are?
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Rocky Roid Originally by: Jovoich Assault ships are bloody amazing now, I would look at starting to use the Harpy and Hawk. Both are small frigate sized ships and your skills shouldnt be too hard to cross over Yea I have been considering that for pvp ops with my corp. Are there any changes planned for the crow and manticore? Or are CCP leaving them as they are? I hope they can't nerf 'em more than they already did... ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.25 12:57:00 - [7] Stealth Bombers got nerfed into complete uselessness with the last patch. This seems to have been a side effect of the missile changes though so I'm pretty hopeful it will get fixed... eventually. For now though just forget about 'em - even afterburning T1 frigs can sponge up a couple volleys now, a good AF pilot will just shrug off a Manticore. The Crow is still a good ship, IMO. It's not totally invulnerable to everything but nano'd Huggins anymore but that was the whole point of the speed changes. It's still an excellent hit-and-run skirmisher, anti-AF, and general tackler. Assault frigs are really good now. As an Ishkur pilot I logged in after patch day and found I was the new FOTM - won't go into tons of detail since you'll find it elsewhere but going from "What the hell is that?" to "ZOMG OVERPOWERED NERF!" is kinda funny. I'm sure it won't last forever but while it does last I'm going to enjoy it :)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.25 13:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Kessiaan Stealth Bombers got nerfed into complete uselessness with the last patch. This seems to have been a side effect of the missile changes though so I'm pretty hopeful it will get fixed... eventually. For now though just forget about 'em - even afterburning T1 frigs can sponge up a couple volleys now, a good AF pilot will just shrug off a Manticore. The Crow is still a good ship, IMO. It's not totally invulnerable to everything but nano'd Huggins anymore but that was the whole point of the speed changes. It's still an excellent hit-and-run skirmisher, anti-AF, and general tackler. Assault frigs are really good now. As an Ishkur pilot I logged in after patch day and found I was the new FOTM - won't go into tons of detail since you'll find it elsewhere but going from "What the hell is that?" to "ZOMG OVERPOWERED NERF!" is kinda funny. I'm sure it won't last forever but while it does last I'm going to enjoy it :) wait wait, you forget to tell the op how the crow got booster! people actully whined about the crow being overpowered now mate. the new bonus "Interceptor Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty" Basicly means when you use a MWD you gain almost no sigradius with the changes to MWDs. SO in other words, you can't be hit by ANYTHING. In fact it's now harder to hit a crow than it used to be. just stay outside of scram range as those shut down MWD now. Also wolf vs. Manticore wolf at 0 velocity full volley 82 damage... ask arvald he threw it at me, it was depressing
Rocky Roid Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 13:55:00 - [9] Originally by: MotherMoon wait wait, you forget to tell the op how the crow got booster! people actully whined about the crow being overpowered now mate. the new bonus "Interceptor Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty" Basicly means when you use a MWD you gain almost no sigradius with the changes to MWDs. SO in other words, you can't be hit by ANYTHING. In fact it's now harder to hit a crow than it used to be. just stay outside of scram range as those shut down MWD now. Also wolf vs. Manticore wolf at 0 velocity full volley 82 damage... ask arvald he threw it at me, it was depressing I like the sound of this :D
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.25 13:59:00 - [10] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Kessiaan Stealth Bombers got nerfed into complete uselessness with the last patch. This seems to have been a side effect of the missile changes though so I'm pretty hopeful it will get fixed... eventually. For now though just forget about 'em - even afterburning T1 frigs can sponge up a couple volleys now, a good AF pilot will just shrug off a Manticore. The Crow is still a good ship, IMO. It's not totally invulnerable to everything but nano'd Huggins anymore but that was the whole point of the speed changes. It's still an excellent hit-and-run skirmisher, anti-AF, and general tackler. Assault frigs are really good now. As an Ishkur pilot I logged in after patch day and found I was the new FOTM - won't go into tons of detail since you'll find it elsewhere but going from "What the hell is that?" to "ZOMG OVERPOWERED NERF!" is kinda funny. I'm sure it won't last forever but while it does last I'm going to enjoy it :) wait wait, you forget to tell the op how the crow got booster! people actully whined about the crow being overpowered now mate. the new bonus "Interceptor Skill Bonus: 15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty" Basicly means when you use a MWD you gain almost no sigradius with the changes to MWDs. SO in other words, you can't be hit by ANYTHING. In fact it's now harder to hit a crow than it used to be. just stay outside of scram range as those shut down MWD now. Also wolf vs. Manticore wolf at 0 velocity full volley 82 damage... ask arvald he threw it at me, it was depressing Warrior IIs with good skills can keep up with Crows. My Ishkur's 125mm rails can track them at 20kms as well. Can't actually kill them unless they're stupid and stand there, but that's one of the perks of being a good inty pilot though.

MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.25 14:09:00 - [11] Quote: Warrior IIs with good skills can keep up with Crows. My Ishkur's 125mm rails can track them at 20kms as well. Can't actually kill them unless they're stupid and stand there, but that's one of the perks of being a good inty pilot though. Are you sure you can track a frigate sized ship moving at 3000m/s? I mean hmm I guess I'm underestimating warrior 2 :P but I suppose at those speeds the intty could kill the drones anyways :)
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:18:00 - [12] For the stealth bomber you need a partner. Someone to help tackle the target. An Electronic Attack Ship makes a good partner for them. A target painter helps as well. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:39:00 - [13] Originally by: MotherMoon Are you sure you can track a frigate sized ship moving at 3000m/s? I mean hmm I guess I'm underestimating warrior 2 :P but I suppose at those speeds the intty could kill the drones anyways :) At 22kms, my skills, 125mm rails can track a target moving 2244 m/s. Obviously an orbiting interceptor is going faster than this, but not so fast they can't still land enough hits to make a difference. More importantly, with Drone Navigation V Warriors IIs MWD at 6300 m/s and with Drone Sharpshooting V have an optimal of 1250m, which is important when they're chasing fast targets. With Drone Durability IV + a drone durability rig, they have 111 shield, 166 armor, 249 hull, and most crows need 3 volleys to pop one, and I carry four spares. Usually by the time they pop a couple they're in structure and start thinking about moving out of range of my warp disruptor. Of course, Crows are doing better than most inties in that they can hit the drones at all, Crusaders, Taranis', and Claws can't hit them at all once I stick a tracking disruptor on them :P.
Mickey Simon Noir.	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:54:00 - [14] Originally by: MotherMoon I mean hmm I guess I'm underestimating warrior 2 :P Definitely they're a right pain in the ass to inty pilots Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . .
Frug Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:58:00 - [15] Just use crows the same way you did before. They're fine as long as you watch out for drones. Hell, they're better. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Rocky Roid Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 17:35:00 - [16] Well the tactics I used before for the manticore is distance. I can hit from 200km away and using pasive targeting I could usualy get a volley in from behind before they realised they were under attack. I can actualy kill mid range tripple BS rat spawns in my manticore too, warp in a 100km fly away from rats untill about 180km then start shooting, it takes a while (about 10 mins for the whole spawn) bit its a fun change from using a raven.
Joe Martin Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.25 17:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Kessiaan At 22kms, my skills, 125mm rails can track a target moving 2244 m/s. Obviously an orbiting interceptor is going faster than this, but not so fast they can't still land enough hits to make a difference. An interceptor will more often be going over double that speed, and generally be a few km closer. You're not going to do much if any damage at all with those guns. Originally by: Kessiaan More importantly, with Drone Navigation V Warriors IIs MWD at 6300 m/s and with Drone Sharpshooting V have an optimal of 1250m, which is important when they're chasing fast targets. I've actually found that the faster the drones are moving over the interceptor's speed the worse it is for DPS. They'll get into range and be able to hold it for a second or two so they'll shut off their MWD, fall out of range, and need to catch back up. This generally cycles fairly slowly and hurts their DPS. Originally by: Kessiaan With Drone Durability IV + a drone durability rig, they have 111 shield, 166 armor, 249 hull, and most crows need 3 volleys to pop one, and I carry four spares. Usually by the time they pop a couple they're in structure and start thinking about moving out of range of my warp disruptor. Of course, Crows are doing better than most inties in that they can hit the drones at all, Crusaders, Taranis', and Claws can't hit them at all once I stick a tracking disruptor on them :P. Yes, but as soon as any competent 'ceptor pilot sees the tracking disruptor on the overview he's just going to disengage and warp off; great if he's tackling for a gang, bad if you actually want the kill. Hedging your bets and risking a few warriors to try and secure the kill is better than just scaring targets off.
Feyona Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.12.25 18:17:00 - [18] Crow is still good, but not AS good as it was before (can't outrun Warrior II's for the most part, can't completely mitigate missile damage anymore). It's good for putting a point on outside web and close range gun range. VS AB frigs you should have an easy time and most of them won't be able to track you that well. MWD fit AF/Inty that have scram (Ranis, plated claw, some saders, etc) will catch you a lot easier easier than they used to 'cause the difference in speed is lower and once they've got you, you won't be getting away. Still a fun ship, just not as good as it was...
Gunner Chick	Posted - 2008.12.25 18:20:00 - [19] dont listen to the forum warriors that tell you they suck. They are skilless whiners who can only see what others tell them is great If you don't think i'm right, simply get rid of them and continue forum reading till you find the fotm ships/fits
Mistress Frome SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.12.25 18:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Rocky Roid Well the tactics I used before for the manticore is distance. I can hit from 200km away and using pasive targeting I could usualy get a volley in from behind before they realised they were under attack. I still don't understand how someone can be so completely oblivious to everything around them in space that they let cruises fly 100km+ to hit them. 200 is just outrageous.

Bahhs Deep	Posted - 2008.12.25 20:39:00 - [21] Originally by: Mistress Frome Originally by: Rocky Roid Well the tactics I used before for the manticore is distance. I can hit from 200km away and using pasive targeting I could usualy get a volley in from behind before they realised they were under attack. I still don't understand how someone can be so completely oblivious to everything around them in space that they let cruises fly 100km+ to hit them. 200 is just outrageous. That's exactly why you're doing it wrong if you're more than 30km from your intended target But of course that went out the window with QR...So now you're doing it wrong no matter what the range... inappropriate picture in sig removed. ~WeatherMan List of People I WILL NOT offer ransoms to. Inoue Zael,Hawk Pryde,Edward England,Kid Brat,Lord Scourge,Slayerseb, Blind John
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.12.25 21:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Bahhs Deep Originally by: Mistress Frome Originally by: Rocky Roid Well the tactics I used before for the manticore is distance. I can hit from 200km away and using pasive targeting I could usualy get a volley in from behind before they realised they were under attack. I still don't understand how someone can be so completely oblivious to everything around them in space that they let cruises fly 100km+ to hit them. 200 is just outrageous. That's exactly why you're doing it wrong if you're more than 30km from your intended target But of course that went out the window with QR...So now you're doing it wrong no matter what the range... maybe a nice boost would be to let SB fire while cloaked
4THELULZ	Posted - 2008.12.25 22:19:00 - [23] It's worth mentioning here that the devs have said that they know there's a problem with stealth bombers and are working on a fix. ... Unfortunately, they also mentioned that they seriously considered torpedos, so don't get your hopes up about the fix being any good >_> Got a few friends flying the crow and they seem to be doing fine, and I'd agree wholeheartedly with the above posters on assault ships; I've been flying a blaster harpy for a while now and it's rapidly become one of my favorite ships.
Bo Bojangles Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2008.12.26 05:17:00 - [24] Edited by: Bo Bojangles on 26/12/2008 05:20:15 Guess we won't be seeing any new stealth bomber gang videos anytime in the near future. I have still seen quite a few SB's running around, but most seem to be packing bombs. Btw,.. by all means please continue with your fotm fascination with ab powered af's, lol. 'Blah blah sigradius blah blah pop!!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.26 06:17:00 - [25] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 26/12/2008 06:20:26 Originally by: MotherMoon Quote: Warrior IIs with good skills can keep up with Crows. My Ishkur's 125mm rails can track them at 20kms as well. Can't actually kill them unless they're stupid and stand there, but that's one of the perks of being a good inty pilot though. Are you sure you can track a frigate sized ship moving at 3000m/s? I mean hmm I guess I'm underestimating warrior 2 :P but I suppose at those speeds the intty could kill the drones anyways :) at 20km I can track it with medium lasers..... (hmmm I suppose me having interceptors 1, helps that out quite a bit)
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:23:00 - [26] I've hit interceptors going 4700-5000 m/s ish with barrage, just not reliably enough to kill any of them. Post QR, I'd say the crow is just about the same as it was before. Watch out for light drones/neuts/minmatar reconds and you'll be fine. As for the manticore, if you found a way to love it beforehand, you could find a way to still love it. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Kateryne Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:16:00 - [27] The stealth bombers are getting their bonuses changed to torpedo stuffs at some point, and being re-tooled into anti-big/slow target bombers. I'd expect to see a second class of bomber coming out with bonuses to maybe heavy or light missiles and designed to be more of a heavy missile frigate...


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