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OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
161
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Posted - 2012.04.18 14:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm sure you are both making intelligent points, but short selling has always made my head turn into a Mobius strip. I would like to see some type of futures contract written into the game, however. It seems like a missing niche. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
619
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Posted - 2012.04.18 16:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
OllieNorth wrote:I'm sure you are both making intelligent points, but short selling has always made my head turn into a Mobius strip. I would like to see some type of futures contract written into the game, however. It seems like a missing niche.
Short selling is pro. It lets double the income, plus shorting usually gets to targets in less time than going long.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Xuixien
Stoic Assembly Lines
Trade Federation Alliance
24
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Posted - 2012.04.18 16:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
That was cute.
Stoic Assembly Lines is a herd of rabid storks looking for new and experienced players. We mine, build things, and shoot people. We are growing fast and preparing to open low-sec operations. PvP capable Indy/mission pilots inquire within. http://sto1c.blogspot.com/p/home.html |
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.19 10:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:
An Example
You purchase one contract with a 1,200 ISK opening market price and 800 ISK closing price. We will then sell the Nocxium at 1,200 and purchase it back from the market when it reaches 800 ISK. LetGÇÖs assume it took two months for this contract to settle. At closing we will return your margin plus profits. In this case your profit will be:
40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô 8,000,000 (20% profits) GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest)
OR
29,600,000 ISK
If the profit is negative (nocxium rises 30%), how do calculate ? Is it .....
-40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô( - 8,000,000 (20% profits) )GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest) = 29,600,000 ISK loss
OR
-40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô( 0 (20% profits) )GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest) = 40,000,000 ISK loss
This buisiness modell makes only sense if your are willing to share the loss as well as the profit |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
68
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Posted - 2012.04.19 11:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:
If the profit is negative (nocxium rises 30%), how do calculate ? Is it .....
-40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô( - 8,000,000 (20% profits) )GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest) = 29,600,000 ISK loss
OR
-40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô( 0 (20% profits) )GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest) = 40,000,000 ISK loss
This buisiness modell makes only sense if your are willing to share the loss as well as the profit
This offer is neither a shared business nor a partnership. IGÇÖm giving you the opportunity to short sell which is something that is not possible to do in game. IGÇÖm acting as a third party and collecting a fee based on profits. If you take a loss, I will not charge a management fee. You still need to pay the interest.
Keep in mind that you can close the contract at any time; no need to wait 6 months. You will take a loss if and only if the market price of nocxium never goes below your opening price.
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Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.19 15:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:
This offer is neither a shared business nor a partnership. IGÇÖm giving you the opportunity to short sell which is something that is not possible to do in game.
Why shouldnt a player sell his nocxium by himself ... and buy it back when prizes dropp ?
Block Ukx wrote:
An Example
You purchase one contract with a 1,200 ISK opening market price and 800 ISK closing price. We will then sell the Nocxium at 1,200 and purchase it back from the market when it reaches 800 ISK. LetGÇÖs assume it took two months for this contract to settle. At closing we will return your margin plus profits. In this case your profit will be:
40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô 8,000,000 (20% profits) GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest)
OR
29,600,000 ISK
This arragngement is either a 29,600,000 win or 10,400 000 loss (because i can sell and buyback the nocxium buymyself) |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
69
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Posted - 2012.04.19 17:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:
Why shouldnt a player sell his nocxium by himself ... and buy it back when prizes dropp ?
That would'n be considered a short sell. If you need to purchase the Nocxium first, then you are not short selling, you are going long.
EDIT: I'm assuming most people do not own the nocxium.
Kyshonuba wrote:Block Ukx wrote:
An Example
You purchase one contract with a 1,200 ISK opening market price and 800 ISK closing price. We will then sell the Nocxium at 1,200 and purchase it back from the market when it reaches 800 ISK. LetGÇÖs assume it took two months for this contract to settle. At closing we will return your margin plus profits. In this case your profit will be:
40,000,000 ISK (sale) GÇô 8,000,000 (20% profits) GÇô 2,400,000 (2% interest)
OR
29,600,000 ISK
This arragngement is either a 29,600,000 win or 10,400 000 loss (because i can sell and buyback the nocxium buymyself)
Leverage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leverage_(finance)
In your example, you would use 10M ISK to purchase about 10,417 units of Nocxium at 960 IKS pu (approximately current market price). Selling at 1,200 will profit 2,500,080 minus EVEGÇÖs taxes and broker fees.
Return of investment in your example is 25%
By short selling with this offer you can potentially make 10 times what you normally would.
EDIT: Even if you own the Nocxium your gains will still be much lower due to leverage. |
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.19 19:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
In other words ......... you lend me (the investor) the nocxium but, you actually dont put it physical in my hangar.
Instead you sell/buy it under the conditons of the contracts to the market.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
........
Yes, the borrowing Nocxium is the definition of "regular short" (opposed to the naked short, where the borrowing does not happen)......
So you are offering "naked shorts" arent you ?
wikipedia wrote:
This means that the buyer of such a short is buying the short-seller's promise to deliver a share, rather than buying the share itself. The short-seller's promise is known as a hypothecated share.
Weather the nocxium contract is called a "future" ore a "forward" doesnt look that important for basic understanding |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
69
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Posted - 2012.04.21 01:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote:
So you are offering "naked shorts" arent you ?
No, I have set aside 20 M units for this project.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
69
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Posted - 2012.04.24 01:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Don't be shy. This is a great opportunity to make some ISK.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
57
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Posted - 2012.04.24 12:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:
It seems that there is very little interest in shorting Nocxium. I would like to get your feedback on the lack of interest.
What's holding you back? What is it that you don't like about shorting Nocxium? Your comments will be appreciated. Thank you in advanced.
I'd rather short an offcut (say pyerite) from historically inefficient players attempting to acquire nocx with mining lasers from pyrox, and not right now.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
186
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Posted - 2012.04.24 13:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Most people would probably rather invest directly. And I mean directly directly, not in your little index funds. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
69
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Posted - 2012.04.24 14:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Most people would probably rather invest directly. And I mean directly directly, not in your little index funds.
I understand that people like to invest directly. However, you can't short sell directly.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
646
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Posted - 2012.04.24 15:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:corestwo wrote:Most people would probably rather invest directly. And I mean directly directly, not in your little index funds. I understand that people like to invest directly. However, you can't short sell directly.
I think you have to present the package in a more easy to understand and catchy package.
I also experience your difficulties at showing gamers something that is really for another audience.
Most guys in MD are happy to "get" what a loan / bond is, they CBA to go beyond unless someone really slaps the advantages of something different in their face.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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