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Local, bumping and stuff.

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Emika	Posted - 2008.12.26 11:57:00 - [1] Well hello there, i've been gone for a couple of years and thought i'd come see how ol' EvE was doing these days. So i log in and see local is still the all seeing tool that it was when i left. It was mentioned that they were going to do something to remove the "Omg neutral/enemy in local, log/warp/dock!" factor (this was way before i even thought of leaving). I know you can't just remove local totally, there has to be a comprimise somewhere. Bumping..bumping always peeved me off. I found it incredibly annoying to have some numbnut run his ship into mine and knock it off course. So is bumping still as popular as ever as a tackling/griefing method? And why is local still a god tool?:( I'm off back ingame now to stare at all the shiny new mods and ships!
Phoebe Sirett ThisIsNotAnAllianceHoldingCorp Ignition.	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:04:00 - [2] Still think removal of local and forced use of constellation chat, and delayed mode (You don't display there untill you talk) Is the best idea.
Butzewutze	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:06:00 - [3] has mentioned a thousand times at least -> NO thanks. I dont want to press that scanbutton 15 times per minute.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:12:00 - [4] Now you don't have to bump supercapitals to tackle them in lowsec, you can use Heavy Interdictors with a focused script and stop them from warping that way. Outside of agility and speed changes, nothing much has changed in the bumping world. As for local, yes, its still the end all be all intel gathering tool. There has been talks of making it so only people who talk appear in local for (0.0 only), but we will have to see what happens. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Emika	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:21:00 - [5] Hows about if you're scrambled/webbed, do we get icons appearing on the screen yet? Rather than having to zoom right in and somehow fight while watching out for the graphic to see if you're scrambled or not. And i think they'll just string out the "We'll fix local...honest!" thing. Like i said it needs a comprimise, not a situation where you have to scan every few seconds.
Neth'Rae Gallente Decorum Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:34:00 - [6] Edited by: Neth''Rae on 26/12/2008 12:34:33 Originally by: Butzewutze has mentioned a thousand times at least -> NO thanks. I dont want to press that scanbutton 15 times per minute. CCP has stated that they want to remove local and replace it with something else in the march expansion, but they couldn't promise that it will be in so it might come later.. I do Sigs, Banners and other Graphics for ISK. Click Here!
Gadwad	Posted - 2008.12.26 12:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Emika Hows about if you're scrambled/webbed, do we get icons appearing on the screen yet? Rather than having to zoom right in and somehow fight while watching out for the graphic to see if you're scrambled or not. And i think they'll just string out the "We'll fix local...honest!" thing. Like i said it needs a comprimise, not a situation where you have to scan every few seconds. Overview shows scram/web etc
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Artemis Rose Now you don't have to bump supercapitals to tackle them in lowsec, you can use Heavy Interdictors with a focused script and stop them from warping that way. Outside of agility and speed changes, nothing much has changed in the bumping world. As for local, yes, its still the end all be all intel gathering tool. There has been talks of making it so only people who talk appear in local for (0.0 only), but we will have to see what happens. Why pay out all that isk and time on skills and buying a dictor and equipping it when a T1 frig can bump a supercap off course? IMO, there needs to be something done regarding the mass difference. A frig should just bounce off a supercap or even something as small as a BS with almost no effect. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.12.26 15:23:00 - [9] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 26/12/2008 15:25:11 And after nerfing local, the most stupid idea ever same with alternatives, we will have some new whines like : - Ouin ouin, there is only falcon and covert ships who travel through 0.0 now, we can't kill them. NERF THEM ! - Ouin ouin, there is no more people in 0.0, for unknown reasons ( ). Move lvl 4 missions in 0.0 NOW ! - Ouin ouin, carebears are too much protected, they don't want have risks and avoid low/null secs, they prefer doing lvl 3 missions. NERF EMPIRE ! ___________________ Remove Local is the worst idea ever. Prepare for unforseen consequences... As CCP is the real problem of EVE, I fear the worst.
Yarik Mendel Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2008.12.26 16:35:00 - [10] Bumping is needed to deal with those that use stations, stargates and to an extent pos shields as get out of jail free card.

soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council.	Posted - 2008.12.26 17:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Butzewutze has mentioned a thousand times at least -> NO thanks. I dont want to press that scanbutton 15 times per minute. think about it like this, your enemy has to press the scan button 20 times a minute to find you would you rather your enemy konw your in system by simply jumping in? or would you rather him have to look for you? Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Cyrus Brown	Posted - 2008.12.26 18:34:00 - [12] Local will be removed soonÖ.
sanGreAzuL	Posted - 2008.12.26 19:11:00 - [13] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: Butzewutze has mentioned a thousand times at least -> NO thanks. I dont want to press that scanbutton 15 times per minute. think about it like this, your enemy has to press the scan button 20 times a minute to find you would you rather your enemy konw your in system by simply jumping in? or would you rather him have to look for you? I don't want local removed, but that's a pretty sad statement. If the guy is in a recon, you're sol.
Emika	Posted - 2008.12.26 20:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Originally by: Artemis Rose Now you don't have to bump supercapitals to tackle them in lowsec, you can use Heavy Interdictors with a focused script and stop them from warping that way. Outside of agility and speed changes, nothing much has changed in the bumping world. As for local, yes, its still the end all be all intel gathering tool. There has been talks of making it so only people who talk appear in local for (0.0 only), but we will have to see what happens. Why pay out all that isk and time on skills and buying a dictor and equipping it when a T1 frig can bump a supercap off course? IMO, there needs to be something done regarding the mass difference. A frig should just bounce off a supercap or even something as small as a BS with almost no effect. I had an inty bump (and successfully move) my carrier once while i was afking, i had to rush away from the PC and came back to find myself floating away from the station with several red blinking squares on my overview. It's an unintended feature that only a few people complain about, so nothing gets done :( And i was talking in general, not about supercaps. 'Tis most annoying to have people bump me, either open fire + tackle me or leave me alone :) No i'm not a station hugger, i used to get bumped out of warp a lot
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.12.27 06:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Why pay out all that isk and time on skills and buying a dictor and equipping it when a T1 frig can bump a supercap off course? That is what officer smart bombs are for *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.12.27 07:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Emika It's [bumping] an unintended feature that only a few people complain about, so nothing gets done :( Actually, bumping it is intended. Before HICs, CCP said that the best way to kill supercaps in low sec was to bump them out of alignment. Bumping doesn't really work very well vs capital/super capital ships anymore. You should try it, with the death of really fast cruisers and nano-BS, you can't bump very well at all. Bumping makes the game a lot more interesting, tactical, and involves some player skill. Taking it away would be terrible for EVE. Maybe you shouldn't afk a carrier in hostile space like a moron? -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Cyrus Brown	Posted - 2008.12.27 07:25:00 - [17] Bumping is a terrible mechanic as it is currently implemented. Nothing CCP says means anything as they will change thier mind later and change the mechanic on a whim as any long time experienced player knows.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.27 09:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Butzewutze has mentioned a thousand times at least -> NO thanks. I dont want to press that scanbutton 15 times per minute. Maybe you should consider moving to highsec then. Local needs to be removed, having complete safety in 0.0 and lowsec is incredibly lame and doesnt blend into the risk/reward concept very well.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2008.12.27 09:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 26/12/2008 15:29:36 And after nerfing local, the most stupid idea ever same with alternatives, we will have some new whines like : - Ouin ouin, there is only falcon and covert ships who travel through 0.0 now, we can't kill them. NERF THEM ! After this nerf, - Ouin ouin, there is no more people in 0.0, for unknown reasons ( ). Move lvl 4 missions in 0.0 NOW ! After this nerf, - Ouin ouin, carebears are too much protected, they don't want have risks and avoid low/null secs, they prefer doing lvl 3 missions. NERF EMPIRE ! I heard that if they remove local, the sky will fall. This will be caused by idiots not reading the part where CCP said "and replaced by a comparable intel tool".
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.27 10:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Malcanis I heard that if they remove local, the sky will fall. This will be caused by idiots not reading the part where CCP said "and replaced by a comparable intel tool". The problem is the availability of instant intel in the first place. Even if its only a count of pilots in system, people will just log if that number jumps by 1. Removing it completely is the way to go, the ship scanner and probes are sufficient intel tools already, what needs to be done is removing intel sources not relying on player effort. Imagine the horror of having to pay the noobs in your alliance for scouting duties

Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.12.27 12:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis I heard that if they remove local, the sky will fall. This will be caused by idiots not reading the part where CCP said "and replaced by a comparable intel tool". "Comparable" can't be considered as "same efficiency" when we talk about Local. To please some pirates, CCP will have to make it less interresting. So there will be a counter-part who will be not acceptable. Actually, CCP would certainly do the "You don't display there until you talk" alternative. In fact, I doubt that there is any possible solution to replace it efficiently without create more work for the server (byebye the Automatic Scanner, etc...)... As players don't really speak in local in 0.0, apart fleet battles where smacking is everywhere, this will give a situation that the risk/reward ratio will change totally from one side to another. The Constellation Chat don't give the same efficiency... Quote: not relying on player effort Always the word "effort" is used where a nerf is asked. Personaly, I prefer counter this by the word "game", and a game must be fun, not frustating. EVE in some ways can already be regarded as a work. Expand this will not make this game more appealing, and there is already too much players in high sector to make a new exodus 0.0 > Empire. The actual Local is fine. Same if some players logoff when they see someone, it don't protect everyone, or pirates would disappear since a while. ___________________ Remove Local is the worst idea ever. Prepare for unforseen consequences... As CCP is the real problem of EVE, I fear the worst.
Immi Feilus	Posted - 2008.12.27 23:10:00 - [22] My problem with removing local is it ruins a pirates ability to find their prey. There are too many ships floating around empty at POS's that it becomes nearly impossibly long to properly scan down ships to determine what is and isn't at a POS. If they remove local, I think they need to add an option to remove empty ships from overview because otherwise they might as well just remove the scanner and we can go back to running the belts.
Zephyr SkyHunter ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.12.28 06:45:00 - [23] It has been mentioned a few times that if/when local is removed/modified (to not show pilots as soon as they enter a system), it will be replaced with a scanner of approximately-equal utility.
Gojyu Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.28 07:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Immi Feilus My problem with removing local is it ruins a pirates ability to find their prey. If they remove local, seems fair to me. Ruins a pirate's ability to find prey, providing a slight imbalance in favor of the target. Given that lowsec is all but abandoned now days, might go a little way towards evening the scales
Infinity Ziona Extortive	Posted - 2008.12.28 09:23:00 - [25] Originally by: sanGreAzuL If the guy is in a recon, you're sol. If your solo with an alt then you choose a dead end system and park the alt right on the gate. When the gate activates you'll know. Recon no longer has an advantage that it can exploit if your smart. Ganking Buddhist Nun
Infinity Ziona Extortive	Posted - 2008.12.28 09:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Immi Feilus My problem with removing local is it ruins a pirates ability to find their prey. There are too many ships floating around empty at POS's that it becomes nearly impossibly long to properly scan down ships to determine what is and isn't at a POS. If they remove local, I think they need to add an option to remove empty ships from overview because otherwise they might as well just remove the scanner and we can go back to running the belts. Directional scanner with structures ticked you'll be able to use distance to figure out where and what your scanning. Ganking Buddhist Nun
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.12.28 09:58:00 - [27] It's pretty clear that any major change to local (small delay to appear doesn't count) will go together with automatic scanner updating - a real time scanner. Nobody wants to press "scan" every 10 seconds. There's no reason why it can't automatically update while the window is open, functioning same way as overview. Bumping shouldn't be changed. Bumping has already been severely nerfed with the speed nerf. Good bumping required fast speeds. Also, bumping is a uniquely EVE thing, it adds a whole new tactical dimension to combat. As such, it should be preserved as one of the things that makes EVE special. Tho I wouldn't be surprised if the current devs in charge failed to see this
Arthello Pilots Of Honour Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.12.28 11:39:00 - [28] I wouldn't remove "local" altogether. I think people needs a place to do general chat outside of stations, corp, alliance or private convos. So the main question is: How can you remove local and still have ISK flowing? It's obvious that you can't just remove local without replacing it with another sort of early-warning system. Pirates would make low-sec/0.0 uninhabitable for anything but PvP. Hell I don't even think the pirates themselves would like a situation where they couldn't find any good targets anymore. Players would stop making ISK in 0.0 and it would be better to just run missions in high-sec if you had to factor in the loss of your ratting ship every few hours. This would of course be a tremendous setback for EVE as an enjoyable game. It would also lead to less fun PvP as people wouldn't afford all the fun T2 toys. My solution would be to fit every ship with passive sensors - and yes I mean every ship - and based upon the same principles as in modern navies around the world today. If you use an active sensor you can only reach that far, but anyone out there will be aware of someone actively scanning much further. To draw an example: You can scan to, say, 14.4AU but you will be picked up on passive scans for 20AU. Anyone out there will know they're being actively scanned by some sort of warning on their screen. If you're quick to scan belts you would still have a good chance of catching something, as experienced pirates only need seconds to scan down belts and jump to the most probable location anyway. In fact this would boost the hunter as they would make their presense known at their leisure. There should also be some sort of active proximity sensor for a much shorter range. If there wasn't a pirate could just forget about the scanner altogether. He would then enter a system un-noticed and fly from belt to belt until he hit jackpot. With an automatic and active proximity scanner you would be notified - when in for example low-sec - someone closed within a given distance dictated by the devs. These alterations would give the game new tactical options and improve on game-mechanics in my opinon. Expert scanners would be a sought after commodity to any fleet. It would also give both the aggressor and the potential victim a chance to actively respond to a situation.
Heavy Mellow Amarr Salmon of Doubt	Posted - 2008.12.28 11:40:00 - [29] Bumping has always bothered me. I frowned with severe disappointment when I tried to ram two ships together and they sort of pushed away from each other like magnets. I wanted explosions.. damage at least. Grinding, squealing metal. See: Space Quest, when they try to undock the alien ship. That should so be what it's like. Sparks. Damage. Explosions. Thank you.
Von Chaos	Posted - 2008.12.29 06:33:00 - [30] passive and proximity scanners? are u nuts its hard enough catch smart pilots in low sec. smart ones just stay aligned out during their mission and vanish as soon as you decloak to try and grab them in their mission. a proximity scanner would allow only the ******ed ones that are afk to get caught sinse every1 knows youd run away when a red flashy messages appears on your screen saying "incoming unknown vessel". if they did that they would have to make sure cloaked ships are still undetectable. and local, yes it is a good intel tool, but its also more then that. its how u meet people in the game. if i had to scan down a ship to talk to them? well i wouldn't. you take the people aspect away from eve and u might aswell make it some sandbox 1 player space simulator. i use local mostly for chatting, joke, occasionaly irritating some1, and intel. i dont wanna be chucked into a constelation chat room with every1 in the whole area, just not the same, those are my 2 cents anyways



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