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MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:43:00 - [31] I agree a change is needed for the falcon. Recons are nasty ships when used properly in groups. For example, in that fight my geddon died in, if those 2 falcons were a pilgrim and arazu used in combination with ecm drones I wouldn't be here in this thread simply because that's a tactic that requires brain function. Who knows, maybe I need to continue the solo battleship roams and release the vid of all the fights where I get screwed over by falcons to prove a point. You will then see the frustration that makes me want to strangle all you falcon pilots. I promise it will be the most boring pvp video ever made because all you'll see is me tanking til death because I can't lock anyone. Then I can put a second video in the same thread of fights where there aren't any falcons and you can see the difference for yourself. To put this in perspective, when we see gangs to fight, we're counting falcons and half the time we say "whatever" and go afk or somethin. That's not like us because we'll fight anyone under almost any conditions and expect to come out on top. But the falcon crap has become so bad it makes pvp'ing something un-enjoyable. Hopefully something will change so everyone can start enjoying the reason we play this game again, for pvp. This is a business to CCP, I suggest they change something because customer satisfaction is going down the drain all because of one ship.
Raul Watanabe Gallente NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:45:00 - [32] Your right about falcons being over powered, a single falcon can change a whole gangs mind as to whether to engage. One thing that is funny is that the falcon is out of step with all the other factions recon ships in that it is just as good as its combat recon counter part. Nobody chooses to fly rooks these days and yes i am aware that the rook does more DPS but if your flying one of these things for damage then your missing the point. The curse still gets used becuase it has the range bonus over the pilgrim, the lachesis has more mids etc. Falcon however is just as useful and it can warp cloaked, handy indeed. Falcons can sit way out of range and with the nano nerf it is almost impossible to get out there, made even worse when a 20 man gang has 5 falcons Deaths Legion and Final Stand boys Gentle poke there guys i can understand you wanting that kill, next time no smack please you got the kill, it took no skill and insulting my gang members for warping out was lame. Yes i have T2 large guns now. Using multi layered ECCMs including projected is a good idea and something that people need to use alot more, i am keen to try this and see how it works.
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.29 03:54:00 - [33] Ok, this is odd, im guessing barth is your alt? If not it seems a bit strange that your using a strangers km (with complete battle description) to argue for a falcon nerf, when your a falcon pilot. If he is your alt, then id expected youd be dual boxing. However checking a few of your km's I cant see barth on any yet (perhaps i havent checked enough), so maybe you use them as 2 seperate toons for seperate ops. So if your not dual boxing for some reason (hardware?) then id suggest you get to it. Your still technically "solo" as its just you: use the geddon to gank and the falcon to jam. Thats the only real "solo" I see these days. It actually works quite well, see some guys in venal do it with domi's and guys in fountain do it with nightmares lol. Oh and eccm is not a silly thing to fit and stop trolling and waving around ur e-peen, if your so experienced then you should be a little more humble like most vets (unless the account was bought? Dont think so..) In gangs you can fit eccm just fine, if you want solo then dual box. There: im not trolling you, so plz dont troll me back, k thx bai. EVE history t2 precisions
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:16:00 - [34] Originally by: BiggestT Ok, this is odd, im guessing barth is your alt? If not it seems a bit strange that your using a strangers km (with complete battle description) to argue for a falcon nerf, when your a falcon pilot. If he is your alt, then id expected youd be dual boxing. However checking a few of your km's I cant see barth on any yet (perhaps i havent checked enough), so maybe you use them as 2 seperate toons for seperate ops. So if your not dual boxing for some reason (hardware?) then id suggest you get to it. Your still technically "solo" as its just you: use the geddon to gank and the falcon to jam. Thats the only real "solo" I see these days. It actually works quite well, see some guys in venal do it with domi's and guys in fountain do it with nightmares lol. Oh and eccm is not a silly thing to fit and stop trolling and waving around ur e-peen, if your so experienced then you should be a little more humble like most vets (unless the account was bought? Dont think so..) In gangs you can fit eccm just fine, if you want solo then dual box. There: im not trolling you, so plz dont troll me back, k thx bai. Barth is my other main character. I got so sick of falcons I don't even own one anymore on maddog. All those kills with the scorp someone linked, 90% of those are the bait scorp with zero ecm fitted. And no I don't dual box, I think 'solo' pvpers that use a falcon alt are pathetic. When I say I solo roam, I mean 100% solo with my battleship. I know the areas I roam to, and who is typically there and what kind of action they can give me. The problem is getting away from Huola where all the falcon blobs are at. If I can make it away from there I don't see near as many falcons. And yes in gang we fit eccm, if you don't it's near suicide. You can fit eccm on an abaddon because it has 4 mids, but for solo the way I pvp the geddon is better even without eccm. And because I'm solo with a rep, I need point/web and injector which leaves no room for eccm. If I see too many nano gangs, I go to dual heavys with a heavy neut. But that setup is less effective against heavier gangs, which I prefer to fight because I like battleship kills and they make better vid footage. I'm a EFT and test server guru. I know fittings, I know my ships, and what it takes to win fights. But falcons just ruin the fun in pvp, not just for me, but for a lot of people.
Spaztick Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:26:00 - [35] I have in my short time in 0.0 seen one roaming gang without a falcon. Everyone else, be it a small roaming gang of players, an alliance blob, or "solo" players hugging stations and gates have all had a falcon in the gang or on standby to bail them out. The worst part is you can't engage a falcon because of a mix of the cloak + range, while other recons have to be at midrange to be effective. Call me a whiner but Falcons truly are an I-Win button, because of the disabling power of ECM plus range plus cloaking; kill one of those and the falcon becomes useless (if all the falcon alts are to be believed), keep it as it is and it's too much. But seriously, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:41:00 - [36] Edited by: BiggestT on 29/12/2008 04:42:04 Well I think a good solution to the falcon "issue" would be this: Range is not nerfed, strength is not nerfed, bonus's are not touched in anyway. Doing so would simply make the falcon useless. Instead... The ECM module itself would be altered. Only one ECM module should be allowed to be affecting one ship at any one time, any attmepts by other ecm pilots or other ecm modules of the original pilot would result in nothing (an error message). Note that the ecm ships are still awesome in larger fleets, and still useful in smaller fleets. It loses the falcon no power as a recon pilot or force multiplier. This way the situation as like what happened to you would ussually result in at least a do-able fight over the current gank mechanics. It also makes eccm a much more useful mod. There, just my 0.02 isk, I also fly falcons and wouldnt mind this change at all. EVE history t2 precisions
Awesome Marie	Posted - 2008.12.29 04:44:00 - [37] I sign this. In our corp, we use falcons a lot, but only to counter other falcons becauses they are STUPIDLY OVERPOWERED. This 'adapt or die' thingy ppl in eve tend to have going on the forums is really stupid. 'YES, WE KNOW! now plz stfu so we can discuss things'. Yes, Falcons are a part of the game as of now and then we have to 'adapt', but falcons having their current role in the game doesn't meen that role is nothing less than moronity, wich, in my eyes, makes it a valid emo-rage subject on the forums CCP REALLY needs to nerf falcons somehow, seriously. They're ruining every pvp situation less than a large fleet battle unless both sides have falcons (can't understand why ppl don't realise the problem when EVERY 4-5+ gang in game has a falcon and every gang larger has 2 or more. It's stupid. No single ship should be that important to the game. A shipclass perhaps, yes, but not a single kind of ship). Remove 2-3 mid slots, take away some of the bonuses, make it only work at 35km. I don't know, I don't care, but I really want some change to the current situation. Telling ppl to put one eccm mod on their battleships doesn't solve ** because it doesn't help ** against a good falcon pilot. Also. Excuse my english.
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 05:41:00 - [38] Arazu - 2 damps 2 points - around what 72km with faction? lachesis - 2 points - same ^ rapier - 2 webs - like what 60km with faction? huginn - 2 webs - same ^ pilgrim - 2 tracking disruptors - stays below 15km curse - 1 tracking disruptor - stays 30-37km rook - 6 jammers - 249km falcon - 6 jammers - 249km - can continuously warp to different jam spots while staying on gate making it untouchable. Ya I see the balance.... don't you?
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.12.29 05:57:00 - [39] A single curse with tracking disruptors would have absolutely destroyed your gun based DPS, should we nerf those too? *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 06:27:00 - [40] Originally by: Artemis Rose A single curse with tracking disruptors would have absolutely destroyed your gun based DPS, should we nerf those too? Oh really? That's why I've melted targets before with curses on me right? And if your little curse comes inside 25km he dies.

7shining7one7 Gallente P0KER GHOST	Posted - 2008.12.29 08:47:00 - [41] Edited by: 7shining7one7 on 29/12/2008 08:53:52 seriously stop crying and fit 2 eccm's i'm glad you got burned, eve would suck if you could get in a bs with faction fitting and maxed tank, drones and gunnery and just kill everything from frigate to bs by brute force.. and i'm glad that falcons are the way they are so they can jam your ass when the other recons you encounter doesnt seem to have much effect on you even when you are running around with a pure gank/tank fit and no bloody attempt of eccm whatsoever... thx u falcons! "look they're mean to me cause got my ass handed to me when i attempted to solo pvp with a non versatilie gank/tank fit. And expected to just sit and plow through a mixed gang in my battleship, hoping to win based on the expensive fitting and my sp." you know you are going to encounter falcons, if you only want to fly bs's then bring a anti falcon sniper bs (read: eccm and sensor booster) and perhaps use projected ecm on it aswell.. or just bring some fast moving ships like a vaga that can chase the falcon around.. making it leave the field of battle or cloak up or die. you know what to expect when you go solo in a battleship or when you fly battleships only for that matter.. this is eve online not battleships online.. and face it... the reason you are mad is cause they didn't come in bs's that you could cream due to your plentiful isk, expensive and hard tanking heavy hitting fit, and huge amounts of sp.. no.. they got smart and took you downtown.. and here you are crying a river in another nerf falcon thread.. you'd think someone with 76m sp would know how to adapt, but i guess character trades are alive and well... in short: read this thread.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.29 09:11:00 - [42] Edited by: maralt on 29/12/2008 09:13:19 Originally by: Indignant Assault It has come to the point where ECM is ruining the game. Correction. Its helping ppl beat YOU and ruining YOUR style of play, i suggest you adapt as your opponents obviously have.
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 09:13:00 - [43] I used to solo in my Rokh, those were the days. Falcons need a change, if you don't realize this then you are just ignorant. That being said, anyone want a duel? __________________ Built like a Rokh
Kal'Kalagan Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.12.29 09:26:00 - [44] Falcons are most definately over powered especailly in small gang warefare, if you fight a gang that has even 2 falcons in then you are pretty screwed. Was in a fight the other day, approx 15'ish ships aside the enemy had 3 falcons and it was a credit to our people that we managed to hold the field with boths sides losing 3 ships. Our entire 15 man gang couldn target anything for the majority of the fight. the kills theat we did get were through insta popping inties and T1 cruisers before they coudl report to their falcons what shisp were un-jammed. In another example I was in a 10'ish man gang and we were chasing a 7 man gang, we caught them at a gate before they could warp and had them bubbled, our Falcon decloaked and the pilot (who is an exceptional Falcon pilot) jammed all 7 targets and we killed their whole gang without taking a loss or even significant damage to any ship, thats got to be wrong.
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 11:37:00 - [45] 7shining7one7 you are a complete **in **. Ya let me hop in my sniping battleship loaded up with sensor boosters and eccm and go pirating throughout low-sec solo. The last time you saw your ** was when little billy bent over in the mens locker room.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 11:53:00 - [46] Why don't you guys make another thread about nerfing Falcons? *It needs approx. 1500 threads with "omg plz plz nerf nerf please I can't adapt, plz I'm a cute baby!!!"* to make CCP nerfing it... So let the nerf spam go on. Meanwhile call 1-800-TISSUE. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.**
MADDOGzors THE FINAL STAND Red Box.	Posted - 2008.12.29 11:57:00 - [47] Originally by: Colonel Xaven Why don't you guys make another thread about nerfing Falcons? *It needs approx. 1500 threads with "omg plz plz nerf nerf please I can't adapt, plz I'm a cute baby!!!"* to make CCP nerfing it...** So let the nerf spam go on. Meanwhile call 1-800-TISSUE. This is the other thread. And I called that number but your mother answered and started talkin dirty to me.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:10:00 - [48] Originally by: MADDOGzors Originally by: Colonel Xaven Why don't you guys make another thread about nerfing Falcons? *It needs approx. 1500 threads with "omg plz plz nerf nerf please I can't adapt, plz I'm a cute baby!!!"* to make CCP nerfing it... So let the nerf spam go on. Meanwhile call 1-800-TISSUE. This is the other thread. And I called that number but your mother answered and started talkin dirty to me. Oh wait, I posted into the wrong thread Proud member of RZR - Decadence.**
Rache Bartmoss	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:11:00 - [49] Originally by: MADDOGzors Originally by: Colonel Xaven Why don't you guys make another thread about nerfing Falcons? *It needs approx. 1500 threads with "omg plz plz nerf nerf please I can't adapt, plz I'm a cute baby!!!"* to make CCP nerfing it...** So let the nerf spam go on. Meanwhile call 1-800-TISSUE. This is the other thread. And I called that number but your mother answered and started talkin dirty to me. And THEN you got a tissue ?

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:35:00 - [50] Thread locked. Original post was distasteful. Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Games, Email / Netfang


Xephys	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:37:00 - [51] Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 29/12/2008 10:10:38 Originally by: Indignant Assault It has come to the point where ECM is ruining the game. Correction........Its helping ppl beat YOUR old and worn out tactics and ruining YOUR stagnant style of play. I suggest you adapt as your opponents obviously have, and posting a entire thread complaining and whining that ppl you have been killing/beating have adapted and are now kicking your ass is about as pathetic as it gets tbfh. Yep, let's adapt by both bringing larger blobs and moar falcons. That makes PvP so worthwhile, I think I might go do missions in highsec instead. Much less risky and more fun.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:40:00 - [52] Edited by: maralt on 29/12/2008 12:40:37 Originally by: Xephys Originally by: maralt Edited by: maralt on 29/12/2008 10:10:38 Originally by: Indignant Assault It has come to the point where ECM is ruining the game. Correction........Its helping ppl beat YOUR old and worn out tactics and ruining YOUR stagnant style of play. I suggest you adapt as your opponents obviously have, and posting a entire thread complaining and whining that ppl you have been killing/beating have adapted and are now kicking your ass is about as pathetic as it gets tbfh. Yep, let's adapt by both bringing larger blobs and moar falcons. That makes PvP so worthwhile, I think I might go do missions in highsec instead. Much less risky and more fun. The more falcons you bring the less effective they are due to the inability to assign a high number individual jams to a high number of individual targets. If you do not understand that you should go back to empire tbh.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:45:00 - [53] IATL Also agree that Falcons are way out of ballance against solo/small gangs. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:49:00 - [54] Edited by: maralt on 29/12/2008 12:54:56 Originally by: The Djego IATL Also agree that Falcons are way out of balance against solo/small gangs. So falcons are broken cos if you have a gang of a few ships that includes a falcon and attack a solo ship you will proly win?. Or that a gang with ewar is more effective at pvp than a gang without ewar?.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:58:00 - [55] Originally by: maralt Originally by: The Djego IATL Also agree that Falcons are way out of ballance against solo/small gangs. So falcons are broken cos if you have a gang of a few ships that includes a falcon and attack a solo ship you will proly win?. No but it dosn¦t matter what ships you fly and how good your Skills/Fitting is once you are against a Falcon + X and you can¦t run/dock/jump you will die while Amarr/Minmatar and Gallente recons work diffrent they put a drawback(Cap Warefare, bigger Sig, TDs, Multiwebbed at range, less lock Range, beeing pointed from out of reach for Short range ships ect) on you, while the Falcon simply prevents you from fighting. The fight is won by the Falcon in the end(or your inability to fight back) instead of good fittings, Skills and Tactics. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
burek Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.12.29 13:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Myrfrost lol I wish they would just nerf players with more experience, skill and strategic skills than me... This is exactly what ecm does FYI. The nubs that bang on about falcons being fine are most likely the no-hopers than never fight unless with overwhelming numerical advantage + ecm on top of that.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.29 13:06:00 - [57] Originally by: The Djego No but it dosn¦t matter what ships you fly and how good your Skills/Fitting is once you are against a Falcon + X and you can¦t run/dock/jump you will die. So your saying that if your alone against a gang that has you webbed, scrammed, taking dmg and are away from a gate, POS, station that your going to die cos a falcon has jammed you?. Originally by: The Djego while Amarr/Minmatar and Gallente recons work different Good cos without diversity eve would suck. Anyway having a arazu point and damp you while his buddies melt you is just as effective against a solo ship.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.12.29 13:16:00 - [58] Originally by: maralt Originally by: The Djego No but it dosn¦t matter what ships you fly and how good your Skills/Fitting is once you are against a Falcon + X and you can¦t run/dock/jump you will die. So your saying that if your alone against a gang that has you webbed, scrammed, taking dmg and are away from a gate, POS, station that your going to die cos a falcon has jammed you?. Originally by: The Djego while Amarr/Minmatar and Gallente recons work different Good cos without diversity eve would suck. Anyway having a arazu point and damp you while his buddies melt you is just as effective against a solo ship. So how many fights you won without shooting back eh? How do you think I lost a Hyperion(with overloading ECCM) vs Sentrys, 2 BCs and 2 Cruisers without a single kill? Yes correct they had a Falcon. Arazu has a lot less range, also if you are in range to something you can lock it and shoot back... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
maralt Minmatar The seers of truth	Posted - 2008.12.29 13:38:00 - [59] Originally by: The Djego So how many fights you won without shooting back eh? Not many tbh but that does not mean that i lost the fight either. Originally by: The Djego How do you think I lost a Hyperion(with overloading ECCM) vs Sentrys, 2 BCs and 2 Cruisers without a single kill? Yes correct they had a Falcon. Good for them they had a gang that allowed them to kill you QQ more, alternating ranges/tackle would have alowed them to do the same even without a falcon. Originally by: The Djego Arazu has a lot less range, also if you are in range to something you can lock it and shoot back... Unless your in a sniper fit BS or other long ship a arazu can scram at near 50km and damp you down to way under that allowing the dmg dealers to melt you.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.29 14:10:00 - [60] flies completely predictable roaming BS fit tries to take on a whole gang solo gets owned by an obvious counter cries like a little baby on EVE-O -----------



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