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Ironnight
Caldari
x13
X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:21:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Schalac
I like how easy it is to see who all the poor bastards in this thread are. While 13.5k Euros might be a lot to you, if he is able to spend that amount on ISK and then hire a lawyer and take the company in question to court. Well I would assume that 13.5k Euro is not a great deal of money to him. Could of been an investment. Could of been a conglomeration of ISK buyers. Could of been one rich player that wanted to buy his way into power. We don't know, but really what is the difference between this and say spending that amount of money on a weekend trip somewhere? Are all the people that spend a few thousand on a private jet to fly them to some exotic location for a few nights of fun crazy as well?
All on credit on his creditcard, so no he isnt rich.
And he has nothing on the bank, he got the money transfered to Paypal, so the bank did its job, sadly for him, he then transfered the money from Paypal to a criminal and got robbed, surprise surprise.
And CCP was contacted, but I guess the EULA stopped them from posting about it.
They're like 'oh **** son, its a trap *Doomsday* |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.01.03 16:41:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ironnight
All on credit on his creditcard, so no he isnt rich.
And he has nothing on the bank, he got the money transfered to Paypal, so the bank did its job, sadly for him, he then transfered the money from Paypal to a criminal and got robbed, surprise surprise.
And CCP was contacted, but I guess the EULA stopped them from posting about it.
Hm?
According to the news-article the ISK was bought over the course of 3 months. So surely he couldn't have been robbed. It must have been CCP who took the ISK.
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Grunanca
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.01.03 17:18:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Grunanca on 03/01/2009 17:19:36
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: Ironnight
All on credit on his creditcard, so no he isnt rich.
And he has nothing on the bank, he got the money transfered to Paypal, so the bank did its job, sadly for him, he then transfered the money from Paypal to a criminal and got robbed, surprise surprise.
And CCP was contacted, but I guess the EULA stopped them from posting about it.
Hm?
According to the news-article the ISK was bought over the course of 3 months. So surely he couldn't have been robbed. It must have been CCP who took the ISK.
Actually, when it comes to humans, history shows that stupidity has no limits!
Almost feel ashamed coming from the same country as this guy. But I also know some people in the rich areas can make 100.000+ euro per day.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.01.03 17:29:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 03/01/2009 17:29:46
Originally by: Grunanca
But I also know some people in the rich areas can make 100.000+ euro per day.
That's like upwards of 50 million USD a year. What job are these people working? I'll make myself qualified for that **** tbh 
Or did I miss something and people carry the Euro out to three decimal places for some reason?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:44:00 -
[65]
and this is why we will never be rid of isk sellers 
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Ivana Drake
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Posted - 2009.01.03 18:59:00 -
[66]
Oh joy. 
I mean, at LEAST buy GTCs or something
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Grunanca
Mean Corp
Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2009.01.04 09:55:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 03/01/2009 17:29:46
Originally by: Grunanca
But I also know some people in the rich areas can make 100.000+ euro per day.
That's like upwards of 50 million USD a year. What job are these people working? I'll make myself qualified for that **** tbh
Or did I miss something and people carry the Euro out to three decimal places for some reason?
You get a good idea (usually software), sell it to big companies, wait and cash in. Then you buy a 10 million euro house at the beach next to all the other rich guys and win. (only think you cant afford is a nice car as the tax on cars is currently 150% of the value of the car to get it registred)
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Rolbur
Gallente
Poinen Innovations
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:37:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Maria Kalista
Originally by: Atedar Kerane
Just wanna use this thread as a reminder to everyone
Do not buy timecodes from eve-codes.com
They steal your money...
Just do not confuse it with evetimecodes.com, those can be trusted.
this is on their site.
eve-codes.com is an official ETC reseller since 2006.
For more information or questions: [email protected]
EVE ONLINE is a product of CCP.
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Ess Erbe
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:49:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Schalac
I like how easy it is to see who all the poor bastards in this thread are. While 13.5k Euros might be a lot to you, if he is able to spend that amount on ISK and then hire a lawyer and take the company in question to court. Well I would assume that 13.5k Euro is not a great deal of money to him. Could of been an investment. Could of been a conglomeration of ISK buyers. Could of been one rich player that wanted to buy his way into power. We don't know, but really what is the difference between this and say spending that amount of money on a weekend trip somewhere? Are all the people that spend a few thousand on a private jet to fly them to some exotic location for a few nights of fun crazy as well?
COULD
HAVE
COULD'VE
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Antimony Noske
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Posted - 2009.01.04 14:31:00 -
[70]
If I'm understanding this right, things went down something like this:
Man buys service/product from company A.
Company A does not provide service/product.
Man sues company A.
Court rules against Man, and in favour of company A.
If this is how it actually played out, something went horribly, horribly wrong with the court and I hope this man appeals the decision.
It would not be a matter of this guy being stupid if it played out like this. This is like going to walmart, paying for some items, then being kicked out by security sans items, then going to court about it and having the court decide the company should just keep your money and not give you anything for it. A functioning economy simply can't work like that.
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Alexandria Li
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.01.04 14:35:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Antimony Noske
If I'm understanding this right, things went down something like this:
Man buys service/product from company A.
Company A does not provide service/product.
Man sues company A.
Court rules against Man, and in favour of company A.
If this is how it actually played out, something went horribly, horribly wrong with the court and I hope this man appeals the decision.
It would not be a matter of this guy being stupid if it played out like this. This is like going to walmart, paying for some items, then being kicked out by security sans items, then going to court about it and having the court decide the company should just keep your money and not give you anything for it. A functioning economy simply can't work like that.
No. It played out more like this.
Man gives money to Bank A
Man tells Bank A to buy electronic credits from Paypal - this happens.
Man tells Paypal to use electronic credits to buy isk from Trash A - This happens.
Man tells Trash A to deliver ISK - this does not happen, as ISK sellers are trash.
Man sues Bank A for chargeback, this does not happen as man got electronic credits from paypal that he purchased. Court rules in favor of Bank A
Man presumably knows Paypal won't do a chargeback, as they clearly state they won't for virtual goods.
Man is an idiot out 13.500
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.04 14:58:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/01/2009 15:02:38
Originally by: Alexandria Li
No. It played out more like this.
Man gives money to Bank A
Man tells Bank A to buy electronic credits from Paypal - this happens.
Man tells Paypal to use electronic credits to buy isk from Trash A - This happens.
Man tells Trash A to deliver ISK - this does not happen, as ISK sellers are trash.
Man sues Bank A for chargeback, this does not happen as man got electronic credits from paypal that he purchased. Court rules in favor of Bank A
Man presumably knows Paypal won't do a chargeback, as they clearly state they won't for virtual goods.
Man is an idiot out 13.500
Actually, it's even funnier.
Man gives money to Bank A
Man tells Bank A to buy electronic credits from Paypal - this happens.
Man tells Paypal to use electronic credits to buy isk from Trash A - This happens.
Man tells Trash A to deliver ISK - this ALSO does happen (at least occasionally).
CCP removes the ISK from the Man's character's wallet some (short) time later.
Later rinse and repeat the above for THREE MONTHS for the tune of ~20k USD.
Man sues BankA/Paypal/TrashA/whoever/whatever and (obviously) loses.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Lar'san
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Posted - 2009.01.04 15:18:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 04/01/2009 15:02:38
Originally by: Alexandria Li
Stuff ...
Actually, it's even funnier.
Man gives money to Bank A
Man tells Bank A to buy electronic credits from Paypal - this happens.
Man tells Paypal to use electronic credits to buy isk from Trash A - This happens.
Man tells Trash A to deliver ISK - this ALSO does happen (at least occasionally).
CCP removes the ISK from the Man's character's wallet some (short) time later.
Later rinse and repeat the above for THREE MONTHS for the tune of ~20k USD.
Man sues BankA/Paypal/TrashA/whoever/whatever and (obviously) loses.
This ...
 PLAUSIBLE 
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John Hollow
Minmatar
Afterisk
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:11:00 -
[74]
Interesting...
For those of you saying he should have just bought in game time cards, I wonder if he could even get this amount of money from them? Years of selling them? I wonder if upon thinking it through, if anyone could sell him this amount. Think of how many players it would take to generate this amount of isk in the game. I mean, this has to be some percentage of the TOTAL isk in the entire economy...
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Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:59:00 -
[75]
Originally by: John Hollow
Interesting...
For those of you saying he should have just bought in game time cards, I wonder if he could even get this amount of money from them? Years of selling them? I wonder if upon thinking it through, if anyone could sell him this amount. Think of how many players it would take to generate this amount of isk in the game. I mean, this has to be some percentage of the TOTAL isk in the entire economy...
He'd be a drop in the bucket. You can do the math on volume of PLEXes being traded in jita, not to mention the hundreds of B ISK worth of 60 day cards sold daily on the forums. Heck, total up the number of PLEX buy orders in Jita alone and multiply by $15. His cash wad spread over 3 months wouldn't even register.
Worst case he'd have temporarily moved the price of GTCs from 650M for a 60 day to maybe 600.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:16:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Zeba
Edited by: Zeba on 30/12/2008 12:47:12
13.500 euros spent on isk. isk..  That act has to be classified as some sort of mental disorder somewhere.
for all you know he could be ozzy ozzbourne on a spree. cba to look up the spelling.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:16:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/01/2009 21:26:06
Originally by: John Hollow
For those of you saying he should have just bought in game time cards, I wonder if he could even get this amount of money from them? Years of selling them?
200+ PLEX are sold on a daily basis in Jita44 alone, and many more in other regions.
That's 100 GTCs daily in the Forge, and the forge usually handles just about 10% of the total game trades normally.
And that's not even counting the hundreds of GTCs still sold on a daily basis on the forums.
One could safely assume that AT LEAST the equivalent of 1000 GTCs are traded EACH DAY, coming up as roughly 15000 accounts that "run on GTC for ISK".
Out of a 250k subscriber base, 15k is quite tame. I'm thinking more like 25k accounts that are run on GTCs.
Quote:
I wonder if upon thinking it through, if anyone could sell him this amount. Think of how many players it would take to generate this amount of isk in the game.
A typical "hardcore" L4 mission-runner running two accounts generates roughly 40 to 50 mil ISK per hour and needs one GTC per month (2 GTCs every 2 months, or 2 PLEX each month). The same typical mission-runner games to the tune of 100 to 150 hours a month. That's 4 to 7.5 bil ISK per account pair per month.
I estimate there's at least 1000 such players in the entire game (2k accounts), if not more of them... and then you have the many more single-accounters with varying degrees of activity levels.
Quote:
I mean, this has to be some percentage of the TOTAL isk in the entire economy...
Last time we had a decent hint at the amount of ISK available in the economy, the vehiculated amount was almost 300 trillion ISK.
That's trillion. With a T. As in, 300k billion. Or 300 million million ISK.
300 000 000 000 000 000 . 00 ISK
His share ? 400 000 000 000 000 . 00 ISK
Or in other words aprox 0.13% of the in-game LIQUID ISK.
Much, much less of the total worth of assets in-game even at market price (just think about how much all the T2 BPOs in the game are worth, let alone countless BPOs and so on).
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Clair Bear
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:26:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Akita T
One could safely assume that AT LEAST the equivalent of 1000 GTCs are traded EACH DAY, coming up as roughly 15000 accounts that "run on GTC for ISK".
The number 40,000 GTC-funded accounts has been mentioned. By Dr. E during the ghost training fiasco discussions. I forget where precisely, though. Sounds plausible enough.
So yeah, we're talking a GTC market of 3*10^8 * 4*10^4 = 12 * 10^12 or 12,000,000,000,000 (12T) a month. 48 trillion over 3 months means 400B is lost in the roundoff error.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:29:00 -
[79]
There might have been up to 40k before the GTC changes and the ghost training debacle, but I'm thinking more around the above-mentioned 25k nowadays... but who knows, maybe all those "I quit" or "I sold some of my GTC-fueled alts" posts were just the proverbial drop in the bucket of people who just ignored the changes and kept going regardless.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:54:00 -
[80]
Old Figures
Old figures above, but another outraged poster recently checked and found the figures were in fact slightly higher
Basically GTCS to Isk account for roughly 90 billion isk a day.
The outrage about the ruling and WOW THATS SO MUCH MONEY by naive posters in this thread ignores the truth that CCP greed driven ,sponsored and endorsed RL Money-ISK transfer covers that amount over 4 days.
This goes on all year round.
Its 90 Billion isk flowing unearned into peoples coffers per day - rubbishing CCP Gimnis statement that
Quote:
Quote:Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.
It amounts to more then enough to buy every battleship bought in game every day. Its a massive, game distorting amount - which rewards the lazy rich and penalises the hard working poor.
But CCPs wallet > CCP ethics.
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Clair Bear
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.01.05 22:19:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Le Skunk
But CCPs wallet > CCP ethics.
SKUNK
Fact: players *WILL* buy in-game items and currency with RL funds. The mere existence of gold farmers would not be possible without this.
What CCP is doing is at creating a framework within which gold farmers are shut out of the loop. The money is paid to other players -- without item duplication there is a limit to the amount of players * amount of hours played * ISK each hour. Game time is worthless to farmers without the ability to cash out. So the GM statements, while wrong in magnitude, are correct in concept.
Change that 'no player will be able to obtain hundreds of trillions of ISK with the GTC system on a monthly basis' and it becomes completely correct.
What I'm getting at: there's nothing wrong with the approach CCP is taking. The problem arises from the ease of generating ISK out of thin air in quantities sufficient to make losses meaningless. Whether the ISK is ground up personally or outsourced through GTC sale is immaterial.
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Battleclash
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Posted - 2009.01.05 22:23:00 -
[82]
I think it's time we let the cat out of the bag.
I AM THAT MAN.
My reasons for buying that amount are for me to know and me alone.
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
Stupidity is universal.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.06 01:44:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Basically GTCS to Isk account for roughly 90 billion isk a day.
Out of a rougly 3 TRILLION volume of ISK that changes hands on a daily basis.
Not sure if that's supposed to be ONLY the volume of ISK traded via the market, or wether that also includes ISK changing hands in contracts, direct trades and inter-character direct ISK transfers.
90 bil / 3000 bil -> a mere 3%
So... I don't know about you, but I don't consider 3% as "game breaking".
Annoying, probably nasty, but certainly not game breaking.
Quote:
ignores the truth that CCP greed driven ,sponsored and endorsed RL Money-ISK transfer covers that amount over 4 days.
Its 90 Billion isk flowing unearned into peoples coffers per day - rubbishing CCP Gimnis statement that
Quote:
Quote:Supply and demand dictates that it would be very difficult for an individual to gather tens of billions of ISK with the secure system and thus game balance will not be upset.
But CCPs wallet > CCP ethics.
You conveniently ignore the fact that at least some of those RL cash would have entered CCP's coffers anyway, since not all of the 40k accounts "fueled by GTC for ISK" would be terminated in case GTC-for-ISK would cease being allowed.
You also conveniently ignore the fact that would it not be for this legal exchange method, the demand for RMT ISK would skyrocket, and the percentage of people that get away with buying ISK for real cash would actually increase.
Well, that, or you're either just complaining for the sake of complaining, or are simply unable to comprehend that this particular situation is one of the few that has very little drawbacks but most advantages, for all involved parties EXCEPT the ones engaging in direct ISK RMT.
_
Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.01.06 03:48:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Terianna Eri on 06/01/2009 03:48:28
Originally by: Battleclash
I AM THAT MAN.
no i am spartacus
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2009.01.06 07:04:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Its a massive, game distorting amount - which rewards the lazy rich and penalises the hard working poor.
But CCPs wallet > CCP ethics.
I'll go with one of my popular phrases here, since it fits so well; Your comment is ignorant and one-dimensional.
I'm quite wealthy iRL, and I pay for my accounts with GTC. Not because I'm a cheapskate, rather because I'm a vetaran in the MMO-gaming and playing alot of games. Using my ingame resources makes it easier for me to keep more accounts open and use those RL resources on other games (note - how does this correlate with your assumption over CCP's greed?), not to mention future games when EVE has died.
It's rather a question about perspective, and alot more variables than you take into consideration. Some only have one account in EVE, never played MMO before and might never do. Some have RL money, others havn't. Some have more gametime than others. Some are more driven when it comes to ideas of making isk, than others (this comes natural to some it seems, those that do well ingame often seems to do it out of game as well; i.e. consider the personality variable?). Etc.
Generalising is almost always bad. Ok, ok, bad joke, but seriously, it's not good to generalise, mmkay. Gotta take more variables into considerations, else you'll end up assuming way too much.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.06 10:15:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/01/2009 10:21:14
Originally by: Akita T
[
90 bil / 3000 bil -> a mere 3%
So... I don't know about you, but I don't consider 3% as "game breaking".
Annoying, probably nasty, but certainly not game breaking...
You conveniently ignore the fact that at least some of those RL cash would have entered CCP's coffers anyway, since not all of the 40k accounts "fueled by GTC for ISK" would be terminated in case GTC-for-ISK would cease being allowed...
You also conveniently ignore the fact that would it not be for this legal exchange method, the demand for RMT ISK would skyrocket, and the percentage of people that get away with buying ISK for real cash would actually increase...
Well, that, or you're either just complaining for the sake of complaining, or are simply unable to comprehend that this particular situation is one of the few that has very little drawbacks but most advantages, for all involved parties EXCEPT the ones engaging in direct ISK RMT.
1) CCP state that 90 billion isk a day DOES NOT AFFECT GAME BALANCE. I suggest that isk enough to buy and fit every battleship bought in empire EVERY DAY, is enough to effect gamebalnce.
I would suggest that with 90 billion isk a day, any individual player, corporation, and indeed probably alliance, could be crushed out of the game.
2) You have no figures here to estimate how many of those accounts would be dropped and how many would be paid for in cash. For the sake of argument I will say 50% will be dropped - so my argument about CCP greed will apply only to 1.5 million dollars a year. Thats still greed.
3) Call me an idealist, but I dont think rich kids with daddies credit card should be able to get an advantage over honest players.
I dont think in a game of chess my opponent should be able to buy a few extra pieces using his credit card.
I dont think in a game of football, one team should be able to buy three goals headstart.
I dont think a corp of 30 players who set up a corp, train skills, work hard, cooperate together and try to earn some isk should be able to be perma decced by merc or have their manufacturing products undercut by someone who plays for 1 hour a day and buys isk.
I believe CCPs 'grudging acceptance' of GTC-ISK trade (as if anyone could grudgingly accept 3 million dollars into their bank account a year) is hypocritical from a company who remove 30 day GTCs in favour of 60 days (ignoring the third biggest outcry on their own damn Council of Intersteller Crud forums) because it is "industry standard" when the practice of selling the gtcs for isk is certainly NOT industry standard.
I also would suggest that the GTC-ISK trade does a damn good job of legitimising RL-ISK trade. A player who is agonizing over the morality of buying isk form a farmer - will take one look at the Dollar-GTC-ISK options offered by CCP and think "Fuk Them the greedy buggers - They cant tell me not to do it when they are offering the same thing themselves. I will go to and isk farmer and get a better deal"
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Ocih
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:23:00 -
[87]
I think I would be much happier trying to explain to my wife, I bought a hooker. I'm sure she would understand that above this. |
Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Relentless Storm Cartel
The Eden Project
|
Posted - 2009.01.06 10:34:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ocih
I think I would be much happier trying to explain to my wife, I bought a hooker. I'm sure she would understand that above this.
True  |
Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.06 13:46:00 -
[89]
No, you could get a lot more than one Hooker. Average price of $150/hour means about 120 Hooker-Hours. That translates into about one girl every 3 days for a year.
When you keep in mind that a Hooker likes repeat customers, you can easily get a better deal than that as well.
There is also an index which tracks the cost of keeping a Mistress. It includes everthing from gifts and excuses to the wifey to hotel rooms. About 2 years ago I remember the yearly price being $28,000. So our mystery idiot could have had a nice Mistress for 3/4 of a year as well.
It just goes to show how disproportionate the distribution of wealth is. To a starving Ethiopian, you paying $6 for a cup of StarBucks coffee is obscene.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.06 14:56:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/01/2009 10:21:14
Originally by: Akita T
[
90 bil / 3000 bil -> a mere 3%
So... I don't know about you, but I don't consider 3% as "game breaking".
Annoying, probably nasty, but certainly not game breaking...
You conveniently ignore the fact that at least some of those RL cash would have entered CCP's coffers anyway, since not all of the 40k accounts "fueled by GTC for ISK" would be terminated in case GTC-for-ISK would cease being allowed...
You also conveniently ignore the fact that would it not be for this legal exchange method, the demand for RMT ISK would skyrocket, and the percentage of people that get away with buying ISK for real cash would actually increase...
Well, that, or you're either just complaining for the sake of complaining, or are simply unable to comprehend that this particular situation is one of the few that has very little drawbacks but most advantages, for all involved parties EXCEPT the ones engaging in direct ISK RMT.
1) CCP state that 90 billion isk a day DOES NOT AFFECT GAME BALANCE. I suggest that isk enough to buy and fit every battleship bought in empire EVERY DAY, is enough to effect gamebalnce.
I would suggest that with 90 billion isk a day, any individual player, corporation, and indeed probably alliance, could be crushed out of the game.
2) You have no figures here to estimate how many of those accounts would be dropped and how many would be paid for in cash. For the sake of argument I will say 50% will be dropped - so my argument about CCP greed will apply only to 1.5 million dollars a year. Thats still greed.
3) Call me an idealist, but I dont think rich kids with daddies credit card should be able to get an advantage over honest players.
I dont think in a game of chess my opponent should be able to buy a few extra pieces using his credit card.
I dont think in a game of football, one team should be able to buy three goals headstart.
I dont think a corp of 30 players who set up a corp, train skills, work hard, cooperate together and try to earn some isk should be able to be perma decced by merc or have their manufacturing products undercut by someone who plays for 1 hour a day and buys isk.
I believe CCPs 'grudging acceptance' of GTC-ISK trade (as if anyone could grudgingly accept 3 million dollars into their bank account a year) is hypocritical from a company who remove 30 day GTCs in favour of 60 days (ignoring the third biggest outcry on their own damn Council of Intersteller Crud forums) because it is "industry standard" when the practice of selling the gtcs for isk is certainly NOT industry standard.
I also would suggest that the GTC-ISK trade does a damn good job of legitimising RL-ISK trade. A player who is agonizing over the morality of buying isk form a farmer - will take one look at the Dollar-GTC-ISK options offered by CCP and think "Fuk Them the greedy buggers - They cant tell me not to do it when they are offering the same thing themselves. I will go to and isk farmer and get a better deal"
SKUNK
Yes, most thieves are able to offer lower prices than the legitimate owners.
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