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Elle D
The Taco Stand
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Posted - 2009.01.04 12:50:00 -
[31]
Some concerns you listed really aren't an issue. Simply adding a jump/dock timer after the activation of a RR module would solve everything. Logistics pilots would adapt just like Interdictor pilots have.
But I doubt CCP will even look at their currently confusing set of aggression rules to figure this problem out.
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Aveng3X
Underworld Protection Agency
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Posted - 2009.01.04 13:32:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Aveng3X on 04/01/2009 13:34:17 I agree with the OP here, though repping in low sec has its consequences as:
(1) The attacking fleet could primary the logistics anyway (2) If the logistics ship was repping a pilot with global criminal countdown, it would get sentry gun aggro
We're currently fighting against a corporation that can't get enough of using neutral logistics ships (see: Vengeance Imperium/cowards) but when that happens we just use antisupport tactics like ECM against them, and they usually bugger off.
I still think that a lot of things you can do in an NPC corp should be limited, such as any sort of boosting or support activity: remote ECCM, sensor boosting, repping and so on. It would at least solve the problem of these people getting away with it in empire so that their corporation was at least able to be war decced. __________________________
Any views expressed are not necessarily the views of my corporation or alliance.
YARR! |
Snake O'Donell
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Posted - 2009.01.04 15:27:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Snake O''Donell on 04/01/2009 15:29:51
Originally by: Dex Nederland From my understanding this change came about because of how the militia functions. There was concern with a single militia pilot bringing along a bunch of non-militia friends for some pvp.
I heavily disagree with any nerf to "logistic"* ships; they are in general underutilized and there are plenty of counters in the EW range.
*combat support is a better term.
This tactic is one that is used by a certain corp in the Caldari Militia to a great extent. We made a post about it a few weeks back and never received a response from CCP. I am assuming that CPP doesn't really care, or considers it a "feature".
The corp in question has 3 neutral guardian alts that Remote Rep a war target domi in OMS both on the Villore gate, and on the station. The problem that we are facing is that the domis only flag AFTER they complete their first rep cycle, and only to the people that are aggroing the WT. So what happens is that the EWAR cannot engage the logistics even if other members of the militia have them flagged. It basically renders EWAR ineffective against them, and even if it were useful, the logistics can just jump through or dock up because they do not have any aggro timers. Positioning tacklers on the other side of the gate is useless as well because the logistics aren't flagging to the entire militia. There is really no way to effectively take out the logistics without getting a GCC, and because the 3 logistics alts can basically perma-rep the WT by cycling in and out of combat it is very hard to take out the main that is cuasing the problem. The only way wehave found to deal with this is a spider tanking BS squad with about 7 or 8 BSes. Even then we can only get the WT domi half the time because when his tank starts breaking, he still has time to deaggress and dock up, or jump through the other side of the gate.
This problem needs fixed, but I don't see it happening.
EDIT: I agree with the above poster, as the problem stems from the fact that the NPC corps that the guardians are in cannot be war-deced.
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Fitzter
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.04 21:41:00 -
[34]
Quote: This tactic is one that is used by a certain corp in the Caldari Militia to a great extent. We made a post about it a few weeks back and never received a response from CCP. I am assuming that CPP doesn't really care, or considers it a "feature". The corp in question has 3 neutral guardian alts that Remote Rep a war target domi in OMS both on the Villore gate, and on the station. The problem that we are facing is that the domis only flag AFTER they complete their first rep cycle, and only to the people that are aggroing the WT. So what happens is that the EWAR cannot engage the logistics even if other members of the militia have them flagged. It basically renders EWAR ineffective against them, and even if it were useful, the logistics can just jump through or dock up because they do not have any aggro timers. Positioning tacklers on the other side of the gate is useless as well because the logistics aren't flagging to the entire militia. There is really no way to effectively take out the logistics without getting a GCC, and because the 3 logistics alts can basically perma-rep the WT by cycling in and out of combat it is very hard to take out the main that is cuasing the problem. The only way wehave found to deal with this is a spider tanking BS squad with about 7 or 8 BSes. Even then we can only get the WT domi half the time because when his tank starts breaking, he still has time to deaggress and dock up, or jump through the other side of the gate.
lol This sounds like the battle we just fought. Empire wars suck because of this and having 20 pirate corps camping stations...throwing in unlimited repper ships as the we bring in more fire power is just wrong. How is a neutral deciding to help your war target rep any different than deciding to help him shoot you. wtf it makes no sense. http://www.rnal.net/images//fitzteriss2.jpg |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.01.04 21:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gar Ddhen Now that aggression has been changed so that you cannot fire on gang members who are not members of your corp, why should the logistics pilot be the only one penalised for repping gang mates? What happens when you get aggression timer for repping alliance or militia at a gate? What heppens when said gang gets bounced and everyone else but the logistics is able to jump because they are not aggressed? What happens when you are repping a friendly POS that is not your corps and the guns open up on you because remote reps are counted as aggression? Or gate guns? Or CONCORD? Good way to kill off the use a ship type that was all but useless for a good proportion of its lifespan. You shouldnt be looking at penalising the vast majority of logistics pilots who fly the ships the way they are meant to just to screw up a few.
Remote reppers would get aggression only if they are repping an aggressed ship.
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Spoon1
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.05 09:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Snake O'Donell Edited by: Snake O''Donell on 04/01/2009 15:29:51
Originally by: Dex Nederland From my understanding this change came about because of how the militia functions. There was concern with a single militia pilot bringing along a bunch of non-militia friends for some pvp.
I heavily disagree with any nerf to "logistic"* ships; they are in general underutilized and there are plenty of counters in the EW range.
*combat support is a better term.
This tactic is one that is used by a certain corp in the Caldari Militia to a great extent. We made a post about it a few weeks back and never received a response from CCP. I am assuming that CPP doesn't really care, or considers it a "feature".
The corp in question has 3 neutral guardian alts that Remote Rep a war target domi in OMS both on the Villore gate, and on the station. The problem that we are facing is that the domis only flag AFTER they complete their first rep cycle, and only to the people that are aggroing the WT. So what happens is that the EWAR cannot engage the logistics even if other members of the militia have them flagged. It basically renders EWAR ineffective against them, and even if it were useful, the logistics can just jump through or dock up because they do not have any aggro timers. Positioning tacklers on the other side of the gate is useless as well because the logistics aren't flagging to the entire militia. There is really no way to effectively take out the logistics without getting a GCC, and because the 3 logistics alts can basically perma-rep the WT by cycling in and out of combat it is very hard to take out the main that is cuasing the problem. The only way wehave found to deal with this is a spider tanking BS squad with about 7 or 8 BSes. Even then we can only get the WT domi half the time because when his tank starts breaking, he still has time to deaggress and dock up, or jump through the other side of the gate.
This problem needs fixed, but I don't see it happening.
EDIT: I agree with the above poster, as the problem stems from the fact that the NPC corps that the guardians are in cannot be war-deced.
This. Broken mechanic. Please fix.
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Fitzter
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.05 20:10:00 -
[37]
At the very least the neutrals should be flagged for the rest of the war dec so the can be hunted down.When a 3 man corp dec's you and you show up to fight 10 repping neuts...how does that do anything but let high sec wanna be pirates kill nubs all day. http://www.rnal.net/images//fitzteriss2.jpg |
Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn Cosa Nostra.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 22:37:00 -
[38]
As was mentioned earlier messing with aggression timers will lead to many unintended negative consequences, I'd suggest something different.
I'd suggest looking into changing how logistics is treated in terms of killmails and killrights.
As it is now corp A and corp B are at war, good for them . A pilot from corp A finds what he thinks is a lone pilot from corp B (could be small gang too whatever), the pilot from corp A engages. After he does two non-corp alts in guardians appear and assist the pilot from corp B. When they assist the member of corp B they become flashing red to the corp A pilot and stay that way for 15minutes (please correct me if I am wrong). When the corp A ship is destroyed the two logistics alts do not appear on the killmail nor can any "legal" action be taken against they outside the 15minutes.
What I would propose to alter is to 1.) have the logistics ships appear on the killmail 2.) Provided the pilot in corp A did not fire on the logistics ships give that pilot killrights on the logistics pilots. I think this is a fair way of handling logistics without nerfing the way aggro and logistics function.
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Akiba Penrose
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Posted - 2009.01.07 22:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jonas Barcal
I think using drones to rep actually does give you the counter and prevent docking but I can't test until Feb when I get my new computer as Eve doesn't exactly run on a mobile phone
Rep drones doesent give you a counter.
@op Yeah, seems pretty strange that the logistic dont get flagged to the whole corp when he starts repping a WT. I guess there is some technicalities with passing a flag and not a counter, but shouldnt be impossible to implement. |
Lt Angus
Caldari End Game.
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Posted - 2009.01.08 13:03:00 -
[40]
We got a responce from ccp about it saying they are looking into a fix
Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
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