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Eddie Smurphy
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Posted - 2009.01.04 05:15:00 -
[1]
My main has 11 mil SP and I've been yarring in lowsec since I started playing. My entire skill line is focused around covert ops/recons/probes/ewar/etc...
I think it may be time for me to get into 0.0. I have a basic understanding of how 0.0 alliances work, but I figure they all have large intel/recon wings to supplement their main combat wings. Since I'm really not a big-dps/big-tank battleship/dread/carrier kind of guy, I figured this may be something very interesting to participate in.
That said, what is it like to participate in this? I am looking for people who have done or are doing this to share some of their experiences and general feelings.
Thanks in advance.
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Le Cook
Amarr
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.04 09:22:00 -
[2]
its not so much an intel-wing more like on an OP your FC will ask for a scout or multible souts and intel of some sort an thats where you step up and show that your good at it :D you will have to give clear intel on teamspeak tho means you need a working headset.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.01.04 10:08:00 -
[3]
My mains were full covops specialists; giving intel on fleet ops, providing slingshots, moving with enemy fleets and jumping with them (great fun), jumping into 100 man gatecamps knowingly. Have a VERY good understanding on the scanner, know how to probe properly. That's the active part.
You also have to prepare stuff like BM all gates for the regions you use (a covert is only as good as his BM's), you'll get orders to scout out a specific system or area for hostile movement (back then I called the main hostile system 'my office' and spent there days on end charting them), chart hostile POSes.
Being a good scout is about knowing the appropriate game mechanics, knowing fleet tactics so you understand what the enemy fleet is up to just by 'reading' their ships and positioning and being able to convey the important bits fast in a tactical, logical and clear way.
Also, you need to run into an FC who isn't stupid and understands the true value of a covops, oddly enough some of the 'accepted' alliance FC's I've worked with ARE stupid and fail to understand it's power.
What it's like? It's great fun if you like the "shhh, I'm hunting wabbits" kind of gameplay, if you like the smart approach over the headfirst way of doing things. But at the same time it can also be boring as hell and you'll never end up in fights or on KM's so you can't have an ego that needs feeding.
Back then my mains lacked the SP and focus to do anything else than covops and then it becomes boring as you are unable to do anything solo. That's how Tzar'rim was born; being annoyed by not being able to do stuff solo or to fight at all, Tzar is a full combat solo/small gang character. Although right now I'm training covops 5 and have the other skills as well. I'm going back to 0.0 and be useful again instead of joking around in silly piracy.
A good covert is a HUGE asset and you must be both a teamworker as a solo player.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.04 12:56:00 -
[4]
I don't think I am really supposed to pimp recruitment threads in here but... I love a good recon/cov ops pilot 
I'm used to mostly small gang work. we aren't a 0.0 powerhouse. but we do love a good camp/roam in both lowsec and 0.0. we go around and blow stuff up. usually involves a scout and/or an fc
as for blob warfare, well I cant be arsed to do blob warfare.
that and what tzar said
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Eddie Smurphy
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Posted - 2009.01.05 00:38:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Le Cook
its not so much an intel-wing more like on an OP your FC will ask for a scout or multible souts and intel of some sort an thats where you step up and show that your good at it :D you will have to give clear intel on teamspeak tho means you need a working headset.
As Tzar'rim stated, wouldn't it make sense for the large 0.0 powerhouses to have such an intel/recon wing? I find it hard to believe that they simply run around with massive fleets attacking stuff that some guy in their fleet found in their immediate surroundings.
I mean, when an invasion of something is planned, isn't intel gathering a top priority?
And another thing, do people even bother with ewar support during large blob fights (falcons, other recons, etc)?
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2009.01.05 00:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Eddie Smurphy
As Tzar'rim stated, wouldn't it make sense for the large 0.0 powerhouses to have such an intel/recon wing?
This is not WoW. You don't have a "job" in your corporation. You can fly an e-war ship today and fly a battleship tomorrow. There are no limits on fleet sizes so typically when a fleet forms you just bring a ship and you'll be welcome. If you have e-war skills, all the better. But I doubt any 0.0 alliance is going to require you to fly only e-war or recon ships in every fleet op you participate in.
.............
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.01.05 01:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Eddie Smurphy
As Tzar'rim stated, wouldn't it make sense for the large 0.0 powerhouses to have such an intel/recon wing?
This is not WoW. You don't have a "job" in your corporation. You can fly an e-war ship today and fly a battleship tomorrow. There are no limits on fleet sizes so typically when a fleet forms you just bring a ship and you'll be welcome. If you have e-war skills, all the better. But I doubt any 0.0 alliance is going to require you to fly only e-war or recon ships in every fleet op you participate in.
Ups, wrong.
Niche 'jobs' require experience, talent and and special mindset. Most proper groups/alliances will have specialised covert pilots, wether they're idiot prober alts or proper scouts. They have their own intel channels, they might have their own TS channels and they're always used for that specific purpose.
My role always ways covert ops, and I'm damn good at it. I get requests/jobs that need done which require effort and experience, covops specific stuff regarding dozens of things. That tiny little frigate is worth more than a fleet of 100 BS's when done right at the right time and place.
That's a specialism and anyone stating it isn't so didn't actually put in the effort, not as much as specialists do. Does it mean covops are superhuman or anything? no, not at all but it DOES require a specific mindset and capabilities.
I ofcourse CAN fly other ships but invariably the FC will ask me to fly covops.
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Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.05 01:41:00 -
[8]
Quote:
As Tzar'rim stated, wouldn't it make sense for the large 0.0 powerhouses to have such an intel/recon wing? I find it hard to believe that they simply run around with massive fleets attacking stuff that some guy in their fleet found in their immediate surroundings.
That assumes a level of organisation far beyond your average alliance. As Tar'zim stated, people tend to do their own individual specialisation. But, frankly, all fleets need all kinds of pilots, so although you might fly recons really well, saying "Recons are my job and I will never fly anything else" is a shortsighted. In 0.0, people simply tend to gravitate towards a role they're more skilled for, but this isn't an official thing. For example, I tend to fly interdictors, so I'll generally show up to a fleet fight in a sabre, but if we have too many sabres already nothing's stopping me from bringing something else. Hell, the day my alliance tells me "You are now in the dictor wing. You now fly dictors. You will fly a dictor in every engagement, as that is your only role" is the day I start shopping for another alliance
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Le Cook
Amarr
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.05 02:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Le Cook on 05/01/2009 02:09:48
Originally by: Eddie Smurphy
Originally by: Le Cook
its not so much an intel-wing more like on an OP your FC will ask for a scout or multible souts and intel of some sort an thats where you step up and show that your good at it :D you will have to give clear intel on teamspeak tho means you need a working headset.
As Tzar'rim stated, wouldn't it make sense for the large 0.0 powerhouses to have such an intel/recon wing? I find it hard to believe that they simply run around with massive fleets attacking stuff that some guy in their fleet found in their immediate surroundings.
I mean, when an invasion of something is planned, isn't intel gathering a top priority?
And another thing, do people even bother with ewar support during large blob fights (falcons, other recons, etc)?
yes of course, sometimes there are indeed bigger tasks waiting for you then just scouting for a roamin-gang, an you can even gather intel pro-aktive and suply it to your leaders/commanders/buddies/fcs what ever. but again i've yet to see an alliance working with some sort of intel-wing in that respect. you'll simply gather intel for your leaders/fcs and they will love you for it, because (hopefully) their decissions depend on you intel and not alot wanna do that job actualy - intelgathering that is.
oh and yes, people do bother with ewar support during large blob fights.
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Eddie Smurphy
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Posted - 2009.01.05 02:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Le Cook
yes of course, sometimes there are indeed bigger tasks waiting for you then just scouting for a roamin-gang, an you can even gather intel pro-aktive and suply it to your leaders/commanders/buddies/fcs what ever. but again i've yet to see an alliance working with some sort of intel-wing in that respect. you'll simply gather intel for your leaders/fcs and they will love you for it, because (hopefully) their decissions depend on you intel and not alot wanna do that job actualy - intelgathering that is.
Well regarding the big powerblocks (bob, goons, etc), one would assume they would have something like that running. Or maybe I've got the whole nature of 0.0 alliance warfare wrong.
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Gojyu
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.05 02:19:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Or maybe I've got the whole nature of 0.0 alliance warfare wrong.
I've been in fleets with goons and fleets with bob. You give 0.0 alliances far too much credit 
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.01.05 02:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 05/01/2009 02:23:08
Originally by: Le Cook
yes of course, sometimes there are indeed bigger tasks waiting for you then just scouting for a roamin-gang, an you can even gather intel pro-aktive and suply it to your leaders/commanders/buddies/fcs what ever. but again i've yet to see an alliance working with some sort of intel-wing in that respect. you'll simply gather intel for your leaders/fcs and they will love you for it, because (hopefully) their decissions depend on you intel and not alot wanna do that job actualy - intelgathering that is.
oh and yes, people do bother with ewar support during large blob fights.
Not pointing fingers or trying to start any politics here, but a PL member saying alliances don't use intel wings or specialists is amazingly hilarious :)
Thing is that the OP kinda romantices it which takes it a bit far, but most proper alliances will have a dedicated network of capable, trustworthy pilots who are needed for specific jobs. And if people say they're not there that's just because they didn't realize it and/or weren't part of it.
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Le Cook
Amarr
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.05 02:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Eddie Smurphy
Originally by: Le Cook
yes of course, sometimes there are indeed bigger tasks waiting for you then just scouting for a roamin-gang, an you can even gather intel pro-aktive and suply it to your leaders/commanders/buddies/fcs what ever. but again i've yet to see an alliance working with some sort of intel-wing in that respect. you'll simply gather intel for your leaders/fcs and they will love you for it, because (hopefully) their decissions depend on you intel and not alot wanna do that job actualy - intelgathering that is.
Well regarding the big powerblocks (bob, goons, etc), one would assume they would have something like that running. Or maybe I've got the whole nature of 0.0 alliance warfare wrong.
well i guess one could as well say every allinace has an "intel-wing" thou it will take you some time to get into that "intel-wing" because it basicaly will be the alliances "directorship" who do most of the work, and if its something you can do as a grunt they'll ask for it anyway and thats where you step up and do your thing with your cov-ops.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.05 08:44:00 -
[14]
I can't speak for many 0.0 alliances....as ours is very different from most.
We do have a group of pilots who actively pursue CovOps and related areas for a specialisation. It's not that we can't get into a BS or a HAC or a Inty when duty calls, but we do spend time training and developing our CovOps skills. Other groups in the corp are focussed on developing tactics and skills for other specialisations.
But we're quite different from most corps/alliances - we don't try to hold space, we don't NAP anyone, we're a dedicated PvP organisation that pride ourselves on developing innovative tactics and we run a University to teach others.
______________________
Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University.
Now Recruiting. |
Ralarina
Caldari
Vivicide
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Posted - 2009.01.05 13:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gojyu
Quote:
Or maybe I've got the whole nature of 0.0 alliance warfare wrong.
I've been in fleets with goons and fleets with bob. You give 0.0 alliances far too much credit
agreed; you may have a couple of corporations out there that function like this but ... no, normally we'd get under way and it's only after we'd left that they'd be asking for "those in covops or recons, type X" or what-have-you.
What Eddie's saying makes sense; if alliances did utilise their members to their fullest extent, it'd be amazing. But they don't. They want battleships and lots of them, with a bit of light support.
Maybe it's happened but I'd love to see the day that a fleet of 50 rokhs decimates another fleet from 240km away instead of the 170-180km ranges that all the other sniping ships fly at. Something like that makes tactical sense. Having fleets of stealthbombers on standby to "bomb" clusters of sniping battleships stuck in bubbles, or a wing of 20/30 blaster megathrons on hot standby to warp at 0 to the enemy sniping fleet (with a few heavy dictors) to cause absolute havok...
sadly, I've never seen or heard of something that organised happening.
--
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.01.05 13:36:00 -
[16]
I vowed to never step back into 0.0 due to all the backstabbing, leeching etc. But piracy is boring and I miss the teamwork and specialisation.
Hence I'm about to finish off covert skills on this char and going to join a corp in a decent alliance that's doing covert/recon/blackops/bomber warfare. I just hope I find the active, proper people to work with instead of seeing zombies, ret@rds and leechers. When we had a chat about it the 'vibe' was good and promising, so back I go 
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.05 16:12:00 -
[17]
You bring what you bring, as long as your fleet has a good mix of damage, tackle and ewar you're a welcome addition.
You can always train for more ships if you need them. |
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