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Is the Deimos really worth it?

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YARG THEPIRATE	Posted - 2009.01.04 15:53:00 - [1] From what I can tell the Deimos is useless, the deimos insurance only pays out a max 17 mil while the ship in the market cost 80 odd mils (GOD DAMN CCP). Its close range combat makes it likely to die. Not to mention a megathron is a better alternative (Better insurance, better tank, better dps). One would say that a megathron is much slower, while a HAC is all up in your face (fast). Well Deimos is primary used with a gank, so it's safe to assume that a interceptor or other ships are there in the fleet already being used for tackling. So really the megathron's slow speed is covered since they enemy is tackled. Since there are ships that web/distrup/scramble for you so the enemy is stationary. So really the deimos's speed isn't really needed. As well a Brutix fitted with gank gear can out dps it, also it's insurance is actually covers the ship. Unless CCP updates that insurance on the ship (I have no idea why they shouldn't) the deimos is useless. Other ships are far better alternatives.
Haalanii	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:05:00 - [2] For the 1001th time. No, it's clearly not worth it. They were considering a re-work but their best idea was to drop a lowslot and give us an armor rep bonus. Not well-recieved by the community :-/ If it had 4 mids dropping down to electrons to fit a cap booster along with standard mwd + point + web would help quite a bit in making it less of a waste of isk. But this is all for another thread. Buy a Brutix. If agility is a huge concern, fit an i-stab. And yes, before you ask, you should probably just buy an Ishtar instead. Or even better, if you can fly amarr get a zealot or a sac.
P'uck	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:20:00 - [3] Edited by: P''uck on 04/01/2009 16:20:57 The problem with the insurance is not really ccp's fault, it's actually one of the things ccp managed to do right; You can only insure base component cost, but the ship's price is determined by supply/demand. So you should probably nag the people producing deimoses. That being said, ffs 80 mil, I thought ccp managed to drop demand to a level where the deimos became cheap But yeah, the deimos wasnt the finest ship, but I still thought it was nice, before it got changed. You even saw people fly it (and some even loved it)... but after they changed it... well, lets just say, I'm not training gallente cruiser 5 anymore.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Omarvelous on 04/01/2009 16:42:34 The cost is a direct relation to expensive moon minerals. For example: Dysprosium -> Ferrofluid -> Ferrogel -> Reactor Units, Thrusters, Shield Emitters -> Deimos. If you take the time to look at the cost in moon minerals, the cost of fueling the poses collecting those moons mins, the cost in running the labs for invention (in some cases) - the ~3 day construction time, plus adding some profit to make it worth while making in the first place, you can quickly see why HAC's cost ~80 million isk. That said - the only reason to fly one over a Brutix is speed and agility. Its the same dilemma of a Blaster Eagle vs a Ferox, or an AC gank Munin vs a Hurricane. The Zealot vs Harbinger is unique in that its particular weapons platform has enough speed, range and damage to set it apart from the harbinger. That said - the added agility has saved me in a few circumstances where a battlecruiser would have remained stuck. The solution? Remove insurance from the game - make losing a tech 1 ship more painful.
P'uck	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:44:00 - [5] Wait a sec, are you saying that the moon minerals are in fact pushing the component cost close to 80 mil? Well, I think you just said that... Was it always like this?
ArmyOfMe 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.04 16:58:00 - [6] Originally by: P'uck Wait a sec, are you saying that the moon minerals are in fact pushing the component cost close to 80 mil? Well, I think you just said that... Was it always like this? no. back before invention there were to much moon minerals but not enough bpo's that made the price so high. now we got so many ppl doing invention that there isnt enough moon mins, driving the price up. in the end its the customer that has to pay the price anyhow Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.04 17:00:00 - [7] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: P'uck Wait a sec, are you saying that the moon minerals are in fact pushing the component cost close to 80 mil? Well, I think you just said that... Was it always like this? no. back before invention there were to much moon minerals but not enough bpo's that made the price so high. now we got so many ppl doing invention that there isnt enough moon mins, driving the price up. in the end its the customer that has to pay the price anyhow Thank you for spelling it out for P'uck's attempted troll.
P'uck	Posted - 2009.01.04 17:04:00 - [8] Edited by: P''uck on 04/01/2009 17:09:54 What? troll? ffs I was really asking, and I'm glad i totally understand whats going now. You da troll, yo big meanie! (edit; I'm ninja sulking now)
Trader20	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:32:00 - [9] Its close range combat makes it likely to die? Well then why don't you fit rails and orbit at 15km+?
Ralarina Caldari Vivicide	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:38:00 - [10] Originally by: Trader20 Its close range combat makes it likely to die? Well then why don't you fit rails and orbit at 15km+? Because then it has the DPS of a wet lettuce and you may as well use a Ferox. --

Trader20	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Ralarina Originally by: Trader20 Its close range combat makes it likely to die? Well then why don't you fit rails and orbit at 15km+? Because then it has the DPS of a wet lettuce and you may as well use a Ferox. Still has more dps then a cerb with hams so quit ur whining.
Dark Soldat Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Ralarina Originally by: Trader20 Its close range combat makes it likely to die? Well then why don't you fit rails and orbit at 15km+? Because then it has the DPS of a wet lettuce and you may as well use a Ferox. Still has more dps then a cerb with hams so quit ur whining. Because the cerb is in 100 + km safety... If you are reading the above post you are not very bright.I live in Russia. I wear the fufaika, valenoks and the shapka-ushanka with the red star.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:59:00 - [13] Originally by: Dark Soldat Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Ralarina Originally by: Trader20 Its close range combat makes it likely to die? Well then why don't you fit rails and orbit at 15km+? Because then it has the DPS of a wet lettuce and you may as well use a Ferox. Still has more dps then a cerb with hams so quit ur whining. Because the cerb is in 100 + km safety... Yea because HAMS go 100km........that would be HML which has even less dps but more range.
Gabriel Virtus Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.04 19:29:00 - [14] No. It is not. Stop asking this question daily. This is almost as annoying as all the Falcon ECM whines. -GV
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.04 21:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus No. It is not. Stop asking this question daily. This is almost as annoying as all the Falcon ECM whines. -GV More annoying is that CCP still hasn't done anything about either the falcon or deimos. The deimos needs more survivability, such as the AB bonus I pushed a while ago, and the other force recons (and damps) need boosting. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Herz Ing The Fraternity CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2009.01.04 22:44:00 - [16] Deimos is worth training for. Use this fit: [High] 5x Heavy Neutron II's w/ CN Antimatter 1x Heatsink ( SRAR or Small Nos/Neut for me ) [Med] 10mn MWD Scram ( not point, leave it to your interceptor or bubble ) Web [Low] DCU II EX Hardener II 800mm RT Plate 3x MFS II [Rigs] ACR I + Whatever you feel like, I fit a Scan resolution rig for lols. [Drones] 5x HH IIs Overheated it puts out 950 dps at max skills, 900 dps with decent skills. It will melt a Battleship rather quickly and has no problems getting in range to do so. You will have 30k EHP. Bring a Falcon tank and you will never die ( Falcons are great btw ). You can permarun the MWD. Loads of fun. Most dps you can get in a cruiser package. Don't try to solo. Better than an Ishtar for gang work IMO. Definitely worth training for.
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.05 00:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Herz Ing Bring a Falcon tank and you will never die ( Falcons are great btw ). please don't bring falcon alts into whether or not a ship is good. Quote: Loads of fun. Most dps you can get in a cruiser package. Certainly is. Quote: Don't try to solo. Right. Quote: Better than an Ishtar for gang work IMO. In some ways, yes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Psir	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:00:00 - [18] T2 ships should cost more to loose, it's the price of that advantage you get over others. Yes, unless you'll rake up the ship's worth from kills before it pops (which isn't too likely) then it won't be a cost effective ship to use. Not everyone is looking for that, they'd rather just have a pwnmobile to have fun in and the Deimos certainly qualifies as such. The ship's alignment towards close-and-personal tactics don't go along well with how the insurance system works, but that's life. If you can't afford to loose it then don't fly it, now that speed has been nerfed it's actually not much worse off than any of the other HAC's.
Zubakis Bambooule	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Herz Ing ... Overheated it puts out 950 dps at max skills, 900 dps with decent skills. It will melt a Battleship rather quickly and has no problems getting in range to do so. You will have 30k EHP. Bring a Falcon tank and you will never die ( Falcons are great btw ). You can permarun the MWD. ... Nice glass cannon fit, but i dont get the numbers you get. With max skills, overheated, void and hammerheads i get 889dps. Did i forgot something? -- Zuba
Herz Ing The Fraternity CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Letifer Deus Originally by: Herz Ing Bring a Falcon tank and you will never die ( Falcons are great btw ). please don't bring falcon alts into whether or not a ship is good. I don't have a Falcon alt. I'm saying there are many people out there who can fly them and ganging with them is your best chance for survival. Can you fly the Deimos without a Falcon around? Sure, but you're likely to be primaried by your target and your chances of survival approach zero very quickly when you encounter more/bigger ships.

Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:14:00 - [21] Originally by: P'uck Edited by: P''uck on 04/01/2009 17:09:54 What? troll? ffs I was really asking, and I'm glad i totally understand whats going now. You da troll, yo big meanie! (edit; I'm ninja sulking now) Sorry bud - I honestly thought you were being sarcastic.
Herz Ing The Fraternity CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Zubakis Originally by: Herz Ing ... Overheated it puts out 950 dps at max skills, 900 dps with decent skills. It will melt a Battleship rather quickly and has no problems getting in range to do so. You will have 30k EHP. Bring a Falcon tank and you will never die ( Falcons are great btw ). You can permarun the MWD. ... Nice glass cannon fit, but i dont get the numbers you get. With max skills, overheated, void and hammerheads i get 889dps. Did i forgot something? If I read what you typed correctly you're using HH 1s and not HH 2s? Also, there is a ZGM1000 implant that gives +5% Medium hybrid damage and goes for something ridiculously cheap like 5mil. If you've got steel balls you can also buy a Gunslinger CX-2 which is +5% to all turret damage for something like 110mil. They stack.
Zubakis Bambooule	Posted - 2009.01.05 01:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Herz Ing Originally by: Zubakis Originally by: Herz Ing ... Overheated it puts out 950 dps at max skills, 900 dps with decent skills. It will melt a Battleship rather quickly and has no problems getting in range to do so. You will have 30k EHP. Bring a Falcon tank and you will never die ( Falcons are great btw ). You can permarun the MWD. ... Nice glass cannon fit, but i dont get the numbers you get. With max skills, overheated, void and hammerheads i get 889dps. Did i forgot something? If I read what you typed correctly you're using HH 1s and not HH 2s? Also, there is a ZGM1000 implant that gives +5% Medium hybrid damage and goes for something ridiculously cheap like 5mil. If you've got steel balls you can also buy a Gunslinger CX-2 which is +5% to all turret damage for something like 110mil. They stack. No it's HH2. Ok implants, i see what you've done there. -- Zuba
UMEE	Posted - 2009.01.05 05:35:00 - [24] yes, the deimos is worth it for small gang warfare, and of course ratting due to its mobility. for bigger operations like missions and fleets, u might as well fly a BS, even though its HAC counterpart isnt far behind. deimos resists > brutix resists. this matters in small engagements. in other words, if u got the cash, use it. the dilemma is similar to the ishtar vs. domi one. domi tanks hella better and does the same DPS (unless your BS skill is only at 4, in which case ishtar does more), but it's also hella slow. which is why you bring a lighter more agile ship to smaller engagements. similarly, it's silly bringing a mega along to a roaming HAC operation.
Kirtan Loor Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.01.05 07:19:00 - [25] With neutron II's/null ammo and dual falloff rigs it is possible to get 15km fall off with 5+km optimal. This way it is possible to use deimos outside web/scrambler range. But neutrons take so much powergrid that making any decent fit without becoming a glass cannon is impossible. I want to be able to fit neutrons to deimos and still have lots of PG. I wish we had a blaster PG need reduction bonus instead of MWD cap bonus.
IroN HiDE Fat J Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.01.08 04:21:00 - [26] This ship class is worth it. I have HAC 5 and maxed med blaster skills and there is nothing more fun then loading up 5 neutron blasters with void ammo and hitting for a 300dps a gun... accept maybe 7 neutron blasters on an Astarte with the same dps and room for a cap booster... ah well, still worth it... P.S. dont get caught in my solo small mobile warp bubble deimos camp!! LEEEEEERROOOOOY!!!!!
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.01.08 06:32:00 - [27] Originally by: IroN HiDE This ship class is worth it. I have HAC 5 and maxed med blaster skills and there is nothing more fun then loading up 5 neutron blasters with void ammo and hitting for a 300dps a gun... Whatever you do, don't use Void.
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.01.08 10:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Ralarina Originally by: Trader20 Its close range combat makes it likely to die? Well then why don't you fit rails and orbit at 15km+? Because then it has the DPS of a wet lettuce and you may as well use a Ferox. Plus you wont hit goat ass orbiting with crappy tracking rails.....


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