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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.05 19:14:00 -
[1]
To break and unbreakable enemy you need to hit them from within. Unfortunately, the Eve API key and ease of looking up records on people in Eve makes this extremely difficult if not impossible with any group who is protecting themselves from it. So the only method of gathering intelligence about your enemy is through noob scouts, covert-ops, or gossip.
Since intelligence is such an important part of warfare, I propose a new class of covert ops frigates. While cloaked it can target ships and begin to gather intelligence from the pilot of the targeted ship. What ever access that pilot have been granted would be vulnerable to information warfare attack.
The types of intelligence that can be gathered:
- Wallet info, balance, transactions, orders, journal.
- Fleet composition, who is in it, how many.
- Chat, can view enemy fleet, public or corp chat window.
- Industry jobs
Fittings: 1 high, 6 mid, 2 low * I had the idea that a covert ops cloaking device would be in the build materials and would auto cloak and getting rid of the high slot entirely. That would need to be subject to testing. No cargohold. No dorne bay. Able to target 1 ship The remainder would be similar to the current cov-ops
Skills: Electronic Warfare 5 Hacking 5 Advanced Hacking 1* Covert Ops 5 Electronic Attack Frigate 5 Targeting 5 Advanced Spaceship Command 2 Accounting 4 (Yeah I said accounting 4)
I think this could be taken even further with a cruiser class ship - as to give doctored/false data to CEO's to make it look like corporate theft has occurred and things of that sort. I think the frig class would be a good test to see if it should/could be taken any further.
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.01.05 19:50:00 -
[2]
get a second account
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.05 21:37:00 -
[3]
We have this already. We call them spies.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.05 22:08:00 -
[4]
That is possibly the most ******ED idea ever.
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Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.05 22:13:00 -
[5]
I believe you did not read this or have missed the point. So I will attempt to make it more clear:
As I said in the beginning, the Eve API key and ease of looking up records on people in Eve makes this extremely difficult if not impossible with any group who is protecting themselves from it.
Spying on po-dunk corp is pointless and easy. Getting intel on a major alliance is valuable and the amount of effort required to pull it off is unrealistic. Some corps/alliances do not allow people in unless they know you, period. Any corp/alliance that is worth spying on is going to have an SP requirement that they are going to verify through API. So in order to spy on anything worth spying on, you will need to dedicate a lot of time and money into a second account.
Would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is in how effective a second account as a spy could be?
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.05 22:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 05/01/2009 22:59:55
Originally by: Tom Peeping get a second account
Sums it up pretty much. No Api key problem there... if you're aiming to take down a major entity I bet you can shell out a few Isk for GTCs.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.05 23:04:00 -
[7]
Maybe you know something I dont... How do you fake the skillponts on an API?
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.05 23:15:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Hesperius on 05/01/2009 23:14:49 You know I always feel like being on voice chat with people also makes things a bit more personal. Which to actually pull something off like this would require a serious LARPer.
That being said, I'm more into the game here and not at all into the role playing, so once again it may just be a case of where me and my ideas of what is fun do not fit in.
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.06 00:08:00 -
[9]
Quote: Getting intel on a major alliance is valuable and the amount of effort required to pull it off is unrealistic.
Tell that to every large alliance in existence. If you want to spy, make the commitment.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.01.06 00:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hesperius As I said in the beginning, the Eve API key and ease of looking up records on people in Eve makes this extremely difficult if not impossible with any group who is protecting themselves from it.
It does? It started linking accounts belonging to the same player now?
Originally by: Hesperius Spying on po-dunk corp is pointless and easy. Getting intel on a major alliance is valuable and the amount of effort required to pull it off is unrealistic. Some corps/alliances do not allow people in unless they know you, period. Any corp/alliance that is worth spying on is going to have an SP requirement that they are going to verify through API. So in order to spy on anything worth spying on, you will need to dedicate a lot of time and money into a second account.
Because something that took a dedicated group of people literally years to build, represents trillions of combined alliance/corp/player ISK should be vulnerable to 2 weeks of skilltraining? And the SP requirement can be met by either buying characters or planning a year in advance. And yes, people do that.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.06 00:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw Because something that took a dedicated group of people literally years to build, represents trillions of combined alliance/corp/player ISK should be vulnerable to 2 weeks of skilltraining?
You are correct, this is the same as requesting a "right click > destroy alliance" button with 2 weeks of skill training, there would be nothing else to take down an alliance would be required, just knowing what they are up to is enough to make them crumble.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.01.06 01:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 06/01/2009 01:02:16 Vulnerable
Destroy
Straw man
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2009.01.06 01:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hesperius As I said in the beginning, the Eve API key and ease of looking up records on people in Eve makes this extremely difficult if not impossible with any group who is protecting themselves from it.
Get a second account. .............
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.06 01:06:00 -
[14]
Suggesting a second account is offering a solution to which this is a solution to.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:43:00 -
[15]
Anyone have any constructive criticism to this idea or is it pure troll response?
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.01.07 05:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hesperius Anyone have any constructive criticism to this idea or is it pure troll response?
Well... to be honest I'd prefer to neither agree with the idea, nor offer a variation of the idea... Simply saying, this idea sucks is not a troll response. You gotta give people the option of disagreeing... not just agreeing or offering a different change.
By the way.... this idea sucks.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.07 05:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tom Peeping Simply saying, this idea sucks is not a troll response.
Actually it is a troll response. If you haven't got anything constructive to say about it, then commenting on it is trolling. You cant explain yourself, so thanks for turning it into a flame war.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.07 12:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tom Peeping Simply saying, this idea sucks is not a troll response. You gotta give people the option of disagreeing... not just agreeing or offering a different change.
By the way.... this idea sucks.
Read the forum rules. Read them again. Read them a third time. By this point you may have worked out where you and other posters are going wrong, and why you are accused by the OP of trolling. (Hint: The words 'constructive criticism' are the key).
Anyway, for my part in replying, and sticking to the forum rules, I do not see the need for the additional skills. Espionage is about infiltration, agents and double-agents - the KGB didn't just train up and suddenly get info about the US, it spent time and effort inserting agents first as trainees, then rising into key positions, or turning those people in key positions. Espionage is a people/mind game, much as diplomacy, AFK cloaking, and propaganda are.
In other words, the tools are already at your disposal. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Kropolar
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
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Posted - 2009.01.08 00:45:00 -
[19]
"The types of intelligence that can be gathered:
* Wallet info, balance, transactions, orders, journal.
* Fleet composition, who is in it, how many.
* Chat, can view enemy fleet, public or corp chat window.
* Industry jobs"
I don't see how this information could bring an Alliance down easily, in my opinion this would be specifically useful for smaller engagements. Some of it I disagree with, such as viewing chat or fleet composition. I think this would make it too difficult to actually see real action or surprise an enemy fleet. Some of the other stuff could work if given the right restrictions, such as maybe only seeing the last week's worth of transactions etc...
It would also help people route out who their Corporation thief was. That is one part of the game that I absolutely loath, not that people can steal, but that people can steal and no one has a clue who really did it. Not only does this destroy what many people have spent months/years building, but it also breaks friendships as conspiracies, lies and accusations spread like wild fire. There is no doubt that this should be fixed in some way, I was thinking of a non-game specific way but perhaps an in-game solution might prove worthwhile.
... and as for all the trash talking, grow up guys. If you disagree with the topic then state that you disagree and then why you disagree, note that a reason why is not "because it just sucks"! A reason why would be "I think it would be to intrusive to a character's privacy".
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.01.08 05:18:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tom Peeping on 08/01/2009 05:25:48 LOL. No flame war intended. I just really really really don't like this idea. Not sure why that's a problem. I don't want to "constructively criticize" it... as in offer suggestions to improve it... I simply don't want to see this sort of information able to be gotten by someone flying a "spy" ship.
Seriously... is there a polite variant for me to say that I really hate this concept? I don't hate the person... just the idea. I'm sure he'll have good ideas on other subjects... just not this one.
Given that the general concept I want to get across is that I hate this idea... please re-interpret my words into whatever polite way of saying I hate this idea you can think of. I'm afraid I can't think of any offhand, and so far, the op has only left agreeing with him, or "constructive criticism" (which is another way of saying help him to improve the idea). I'd like to choose neither option... but I'm happy to do so politely. As requested... please rephrase my words in your minds so that they are polite... I sat here thinking for a while, but couldn't figure out a polite way of saying NO... that also expressed a true distaste for this idea... that wouldn't fall within the "troll" definition that seems to have been made.
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Rolly Polly
20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.08 06:59:00 -
[21]
It's not a bad idea but lets face it gathering intell is always going to be a meta gaming activitey. It was brought up at fanfest at some point(this year last year) ie more ways to be sneaky and do things that don't involve buying a second account. The answer was that you're not being inventive enough(somethign along those lines). I don't particularly agree with that but that's what the view is.
The argument you end up with when you boil it down is that having two accounts grants a huge advantage and the answer to that is normally: yes it does.
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