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Nikita Knight
Amarr
Trident Future Technologies
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Posted - 2009.01.06 14:51:00 -
[1]
Today a friend told me about some pirates haning out in front of a station killing everything in front of their guns. If anything approaches, which seems to be dangerous they dock immediatly. I know this is a common tactic and i have done that myself, but to be honestà it stinks.
So my idea is to create a dead zone around the station (well around the docking range of the station) which will deaktivate every weapon and E-War Module. So PVP around Stations will still be possible (shooting from outside the zone on the target), but ganking with emergency dock wont happen anymore.
Of course this is just an crude idea with a lot of exploit potential and need for balancing, but i think ist worth to have closer look to it.
Especially the problem with long range scrambler outside the zone and long range weapons must be solved, so that everyone can be sure to be able to warp away from the station, instead of being scrambled and webbed in the middle of the dead zone with no chance to escape and no chance to fight back.
At least we are in war and no empire wants a bunch of trigger-happy Freaks with guns near their multi-billion ISK Stations, right?
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shady trader
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Posted - 2009.01.06 19:12:00 -
[2]
The only down side that comes to mine is that people near stations would be defencely against attackers outside the area you mention as people can just sit outside the area and shoot. Deactivating ewar will also weekend the defence for those in side.
Some sort of jamming band so those inside cannot be targets or target out maybe a better idea. The only problem here is that it just moves the problem a little futher out as people will sit on the boarder of the band and if anything dangerous comes along pop across to the protected side.
Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions. |
Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.01.06 19:38:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Nikita Knight
so that everyone can be sure to be able to warp away from the station, instead of being scrambled and webbed in the middle of the dead zone with no chance to escape and no chance to fight back.
so you feel like you should be able to be in space with perfect safety? Even if there's a war target sitting just 20 km away? Sheesh man... it's already effectively impossible to kill someone who knows how to undock. With a bubble you can drive em back in in 0.0, but in empire, all they have to do is have a bookmark straight ahead from the undock point. Near Guaranteed safety is already available by using basic ship piloting skills and a little thoughtfullness. (i.e. don't set your autowarp point somewhere in sight so they can place themselves next to it the next time)
This mechanic would be SOOOO exploitable... imagine trying to engage on a station just outside the safety zone... anytime you get lock on em, they duck back into the safety zone and you lose lock... they are keeping up a shifting mass of who has points on you and who is bumping you away and who is moving for safety to get you to lose lock.
To be honest, this would increase the station problems rather than fix them.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:21:00 -
[4]
There is a way of avoiding being ganked on undock. Become red flashy for a week and I guarantee that you will learn it.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.01.07 00:43:00 -
[5]
It's not so much the people ganking you on undock... it's the ships capable of supporting a tank solid enough to gank and dock.. specifically: capital ships (carriers).
These *censored* sit dead on the station and smacktalk everybody they shoot at, but are freakishly fast to dock when anything capable of dinting their shields shows up.
The idea of jamming weapons within 10km of the station's docking radius would go a long way toward eliminating the docking foolishness... likewise the jamming of all modules that affect another ship (logistics).
Anything outside the 10km can shoot, but disruptors/HIC points don't work, so the vessel that can't shoot has 2 choices: Dock, or warp.
Or just have the station's anti-collision system push ships away so caps can't hug the station for more than a few minutes.
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ScienceOfficer Aracelli
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Posted - 2009.01.07 01:33:00 -
[6]
well this would not be a half bad idea and it does not affect carriers much. for carriers would still beable to assign drons and remote rep. but thats about all a carrier can do but to cut out everything as impossible would probably be to much i think any agressor that attacks anything within 10k of station shouls be flagged criminal to the station.
just make a station law that any agressors that initiate combat in 10k of a station is subject to attack from station guns and that it.
so if your at war and in high sec feel free to kill your enemy but stay outside 10k of the station unless your willing to tank station guns as well. this will be more realistic and better explained.
or just have dev team paint more dock points on each station and allow players hit undock and when you do a popup informs you to choose a stargate to undock aligned to so players around each station will struggle with tackeling players who undock on other side of station, much like another idea my ceo has posted here on the forums
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.07 01:37:00 -
[7]
Ok, yeah those guys are annoying. It would be interesting if it took a certain amount of time to dock for how large your ship is. It would definitely cut back on a lot of the smack in local, and take away the sure bet that its safe to undock a cap.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt
Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.07 03:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ScienceOfficer Aracelli
or just have dev team paint more dock points on each station and allow players hit undock and when you do a popup informs you to choose a stargate to undock aligned to so players around each station will struggle with tackeling players who undock on other side of station, much like another idea my ceo has posted here on the forums
This is one of the most carebearish ideas I have ever seen. In other words, NO.
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"Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
OffBeaT
Caldari
KaMiKaZes
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Posted - 2009.01.08 04:00:00 -
[9]
common, if you can afford a station you can afford to defend it..
i should hope! 
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.08 18:13:00 -
[10]
simple solution to this would be a 15 minute criminal flagging of any ship that fires on another (using the already existing rules for CONCORD, if you arent in the same corp, it's a good idea to not shoot) within 100km of a station - it wouldnt matter where the offending ship is on the station grid, as the VICTIM's location on the grid is what matters. in Empire, this would not only result in being unable to dock at the station the action occurs at, but would also result in the offender being shot at by the station sentries.
in 0.0 this can be addressed by allowing stations to have POS guns/ewar modules anchored closeby, which can be controlled by any starbase defense operator of the controlling corp/alliance of the station. I would limit the number of guns to a similar number as a large POS however.
yes... it's carebearish... I dont care. IMHO combat should take place out in space away from habitats and gates, and mechanisms need to be put in place that encourage running chases out into the farthest reaches of a system. enough of the camping - it shouldnt be the defacto combat mechanism. EvE is set in space, and CCP needs to realize that there is more to space than camping bottlenecks. |
Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2009.01.09 09:22:00 -
[11]
Or equally simple: If you take active part in a fire fight, no station will allow you to dock for the full length of your combat timer.
I also think you shouldn't be able to pass through a gate for 3-5 minutes after firing on anyone.
Station peek-a-boo and "run to mommy" are about as lame as it gets. If you want to fight, man up and face the consequences.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.01.09 11:45:00 -
[12]
looks like 2 of the post here are almost exactly same...
Quote:
ScienceOfficer Aracelli=well this would not be a half bad idea and it does not affect carriers much. for carriers would still beable to assign drons and remote rep. but thats about all a carrier can do but to cut out everything as impossible would probably be to much i think any agressor that attacks anything within 10k of station shouls be flagged criminal to the station.
just make a station law that any agressors that initiate combat in 10k of a station is subject to attack from station guns and that it.
so if your at war and in high sec feel free to kill your enemy but stay outside 10k of the station unless your willing to tank station guns as well. this will be more realistic and better explained.
or just have dev team paint more dock points on each station and allow players hit undock and when you do a popup informs you to choose a stargate to undock aligned to so players around each station will struggle with tackeling players who undock on other side of station, much like another idea my ceo has posted here on the forums
and
Quote:
Shaka Quatuic=simple solution to this would be a 15 minute criminal flagging of any ship that fires on another (using the already existing rules for CONCORD, if you arent in the same corp, it's a good idea to not shoot) within 100km of a station - it wouldnt matter where the offending ship is on the station grid, as the VICTIM's location on the grid is what matters. in Empire, this would not only result in being unable to dock at the station the action occurs at, but would also result in the offender being shot at by the station sentries.
in 0.0 this can be addressed by allowing stations to have POS guns/ewar modules anchored closeby, which can be controlled by any starbase defense operator of the controlling corp/alliance of the station. I would limit the number of guns to a similar number as a large POS however.
yes... it's carebearish... I dont care. IMHO combat should take place out in space away from habitats and gates, and mechanisms need to be put in place that encourage running chases out into the farthest reaches of a system. enough of the camping - it shouldnt be the defacto combat mechanism. EvE is set in space, and CCP needs to realize that there is more to space than camping bottlenecks.
i like my idea more but this would work too...
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Inara Subaka
Caldari
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.01.09 12:32:00 -
[13]
So instead of having to worry about the risk of possibly losing a ship to PvP, you want to make "safe zones" around stations? I can see it now, instead of docking up and hiding, people just stay in these safezones that make them invulnerable to all harm.
Hell, you could warp from one station to another, and as long as you were never out of warp outside of the dock radius, you could never be shot. Taunting a WT in a commander fit CNR has never been easier, just sit in dock range and laugh as they can't shoot you.
Hisec is safe(r) than lowsec, not completely safe; it would be boring if it was completely safe tbh. 0.0 is supposed to be up to the players to police and enforce their own set of rules, putting gate guns out there makes absolutely no sense at all.
As for handling station campers... it's rather easy and I'm not going to insult your intelligence by telling you how to do it. Basic tactics provides several different ways of handling station campers.
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David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2009.01.09 12:32:00 -
[14]
something that might work is undocking temporarily cloaked like when u spawn after jumping through a gate. the station cloaks u upto a range of 10km then your on your own.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.01.09 13:20:00 -
[15]
i can see it now, everyone undock now.
on my command target joe shmoe and tap approach.
BLAHHHHH
great counter guys they never saw it comming and we dont have to worry about flanking.
this would be a drastic change for tactics but i would sign it because i do not think combat should be heald at stations for i would think it sould be a crime.
what if the stations commanders son stares out a windo to see a battle and a stray bullet kills him? now you messed up!
i personaly think there should be a no fire zone.
but i dont think you should not have a chance to do so, but just to say if you fight within station safty zone you are subject to station fire power.
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.09 17:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Inara Subaka
So instead of having to worry about the risk of possibly losing a ship to PvP, you want to make "safe zones" around stations? I can see it now, instead of docking up and hiding, people just stay in these safezones that make them invulnerable to all harm.
Hell, you could warp from one station to another, and as long as you were never out of warp outside of the dock radius, you could never be shot. Taunting a WT in a commander fit CNR has never been easier, just sit in dock range and laugh as they can't shoot you.
Hisec is safe(r) than lowsec, not completely safe; it would be boring if it was completely safe tbh. 0.0 is supposed to be up to the players to police and enforce their own set of rules, putting gate guns out there makes absolutely no sense at all.
As for handling station campers... it's rather easy and I'm not going to insult your intelligence by telling you how to do it. Basic tactics provides several different ways of handling station campers.
My idea would not make 0.0 stations safe... it would give them the same level of active defense as a large POS, but without the shield bubble. if a hostile gang can either tank the guns or destroy them, then they are perfectly able to attempt to engage undockers - this just levels the field somewhat so that the gankers are kept on their toes.
as to your point about warping from one station to another, EvE needs a new weapon class to encourage fights away from stations (which I have brought up before): a Warp Interdiction Missile, which can pursue a target into warp and disrupt it's flight upon intercept. that, and/or an improved interdictor bubble that can immediately pull ships out of warp anywhere along the flightpath, so long as the victim's warp path crosses the bubble - this works in a manner similar to how Interdictor ISDs in star wars work.
like I said... get combat away from the big stations and out into deeper space where it belongs. as it stands now eve combat only happens in the shallow parts of the pool, and that is just wrong.
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