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Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
   |
Posted - 2009.01.07 17:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jeanette Plato on 07/01/2009 17:17:57
One of the biggest problems we face in eve, as industrialists and miners is the fact that most of the items that we manufacture, are also part of rat drops. This basically forces us to compete with people who have no investments in manufacturing skills, no investments in mining skills and no impediments to make the price of what they're selling as low as possible.
Other than ships and Tech II items, most items sold in Jita are no longer even manufactured, people simply place buy orders for those who have rat droppings to sell, they then turn around and place a huge batch up for sale at a penny less than the last guy. This process repeats until the price ends up lower than the refined mineral costs, and the next guy simply refines the minerals and undercuts the Miners prices on minerals.
This aspect of the Eve Economy has forced a deflationary spiral that makes Manufacturing more and more a losing proposition.
I propose that CCP change loot drops to drop mostly non-manufactured items, such as Consumer items (POS fuel items?), Books, and in some of the higher plexes Limited run BPC's. "Named items" should also be dropped but more rarely than they currently are. Drones should be changed to dropping possibly rig components, and some "named" items, which would lead to lowered Rig prices and more availability of custom ships.
Most Items that are not manufactured (such as "named" items) should also be moved to the contract system, just as all Pith class items are currently. To compensate for this change, Contracts should be given longer times, perhaps a skill can be tied to this to where people add 2 weeks time per level. The point is, why should a mission runner be training and competing in Marketing skills, when really they should be training Contracting skills to get rid of the items he's aquired?
I believe that these changes, coupled with Re-balancing Mining would make for a much more robust market that makes it more worthwhile for Miners and Industrialists.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Makko Gray
Gallente
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
Leather Rose Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 17:32:00 -
[2]
Would be nice to see more done for tech I manufacturing but I don't think changing rat drops is the answer.
Perhaps introducing 'Innovation' as a low level Invention alternative whereby you drop in extra minerals or special items into the manufacturing process and get a chance of producing named items rather than the bog standard ones would help make manufacturing tech I items more attractive. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 18:11:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Makko Gray
Would be nice to see more done for tech I manufacturing but I don't think changing rat drops is the answer.
Are you kidding me? Do you know how many thousands of units of Tech I items are dropped on a daily basis. It boggles the mind.
When the game first started out, I could see using Rat drops because there were very few industrialists, or players for that matter, so CCP had to devise a way for players to get the items they needed. Now however, do you know how many BPO's I have that are completely useless because it costs me more to manufacture than what I can buy it for or even SELL it for in Jita? And many of these are BPO's that I've researched to 225 or better ME. Worthless!
Originally by: Makko Gray
Perhaps introducing 'Innovation' as a low level Invention alternative whereby you drop in extra minerals or special items into the manufacturing process and get a chance of producing named items rather than the bog standard ones would help make manufacturing tech I items more attractive.
I could see something like this implemented to help make up for the lower amount of named items in the game. Currently, you need level 5 in most relevant areas for invention to work, but if they made it to where you level determined the "Meta Level" of items you could "Invent" then that would make it more accessible. Lower Meta Level named items could be produced by Level V scientists and so forth. I still think however that the Rat droppings definitely need to be reduced and ore replaced with items that don't compete with the manufacturing base of Eve.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 20:24:00 -
[4]
I'm surprised more people don't have anything to say on this topic.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
shady trader
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 20:39:00 -
[5]
One of the devs said a while ago they were talking about removing tech 1 item drops (name and faction would still drop). They were going to rebalance the bounties and rig components to compensate for the loss. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 20:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: shady trader
One of the devs said a while ago they were talking about removing tech 1 item drops (name and faction would still drop). They were going to rebalance the bounties and rig components to compensate for the loss.
How long ago did they propose this? Any links?
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Aracna Imahovich
Caldari
SMURF.
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 21:19:00 -
[7]
i presume that you dont care at all for all newbie ratters who's only income is refining and selling those modules?, if they sell them to cheap, buy them and markup, how hard can it be. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 21:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aracna Imahovich
i presume that you don't care at all for all newbie ratters who's only income is refining and selling those modules?, if they sell them to cheap, buy them and markup, how hard can it be.
I didn't say that I wanted Zero drops from rats, what I said was for the rats to drop items that are not manufacturable. Certain things in the game, such as Robotics, Coolant and other POS Fuel items, are very much needed in the game. CCP can increase the NPC prices on these items to make it more attractive to buy from Ratters. Same goes for Skill books. Right now you can only buy skill books from certain NPC schools, no one manufactures them. Additionally, rouge drones can be setup to drop rig components that you normally get from salvaging, thereby increasing the supply of Rigs, leading to more variety of rigged ships, since it won't be as expensive as it is now.
In my view, named items would still be dropped, though not as often as is currently the case.
BTW, I do currently buy items to turn around and sell, the problem is that I have all these great BPO's that I invested Billions in, plus invested A LOT of time in researching them to get the maximum benefit when it comes to manufacturing. The problem is, that I can't use many of them because the margins have become so thin, I'm better off selling the minerals. So what was the whole point of me buying the BPC's then researching them to reduce the waste, only to be undercut by a bunch of guys buying Noob rat droppings for next to nothing and then selling those same items for less than my cost of manufacturing?
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Aiko Intaki
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 22:18:00 -
[9]
My own alternative suggestion is to keep the Meta 0 items dropping as they currently are, and then remove all Meta 1 through Meta 4 drops from mission rats. In place of the Meta 1 through Meta 4 drops, have some currently nonexistent Meta 1 through Meta 4 component drop. Then allow industrialists (with the right skills) to use a BPC or BPO for the corresponding Meta 0 item, the Meta 0 item itself and one of the dropped Meta 1 through Meta 4 components to do a sort of T1 invention process that produces the named Meta 1 through Meta 4 item in question.
Not only would it solve the problem identified by the OP, but it would also offer an invention stepping stone for would-be manufacturers.
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SiJira
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 22:25:00 -
[10]
but mining is so boring 
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
el caido
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 22:41:00 -
[11]
I don't want to do a wall-of-text post, so I shall be brief. This issue is HUGE and well-beyond the arguement of NPC loot tables and the mining paradigm. Tweaking things like: NPCs dropping logs, T1 module volume due to mineral compression, asteroid availability due to population increase, new content (and BPOs) to expand the production gamut, and ammunition mineral requirements all play a role in the development of this 'problem'. Not to mention that little thing called invention ...
I do not have any real substance to add to this thread, but perhaps this will help illustrate that one 'solution' will probably help little, if at all. |
Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 22:42:00 -
[12]
/signed
eve economy needs a fix in this area. |
Fullmetal Jackass
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 23:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
And many of these are BPO's that I've researched to 225 or better ME. Worthless!
225 ME? pretty much anything past 20 is a complete waste of time. No wonder all the research slots are full. Bunch of noobs out there that don't even know how research works. Seriously does it really make you any isk to save one or two units of trit per unit of production? You'll never even make up the research costs.
And then yer *****in about drops when you can't even figure out how to research efficiently. Perfectionist much? Control freak much? Learn game mechanics and then come back and talk.
|
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.07 23:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
And many of these are BPO's that I've researched to 225 or better ME. Worthless!
225 ME? pretty much anything past 20 is a complete waste of time. No wonder all the research slots are full. Bunch of noobs out there that don't even know how research works. Seriously does it really make you any isk to save one or two units of trit per unit of production? You'll never even make up the research costs.
And then yer *****in about drops when you can't even figure out how to research efficiently. Perfectionist much? Control freak much? Learn game mechanics and then come back and talk.
WRONG, you need to look at the numbers. There are some items that an ME of 5 or 10 is "perfect", but there are others that an ME of 225 or more is "perfect". Oh and by the way, I have my own research slots on my own POS, so I don't take up Empire POS slots. |
Nikita Alterana
Gallente
The Antikythera Mechanism
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 00:07:00 -
[15]
posting in support of the OP
__________________________________________________
I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it!
I'm also training Minmatar Capitals!
And I eat Lions! |
Lord Kazuhiro
Caldari
Kaimon Innovations
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 00:11:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Lord Kazuhiro on 08/01/2009 00:11:37
Well you have my vote, I think this needed to be done quite some time ago. Mission runners should still get the meta+ items. And the manufacturers the base and tech 2 items. Then there is no conflict of interest. Would take 30min to implement.
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Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 01:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lord Kazuhiro
Edited by: Lord Kazuhiro on 08/01/2009 00:11:37
Well you have my vote, I think this needed to be done quite some time ago. Mission runners should still get the meta+ items. And the manufacturers the base and tech 2 items. Then there is no conflict of interest. Would take 30min to implement.
Considering the level of deflation we've had in the past year or so, you would think this would be a priority with CCP. You're probably right in that this would be one of the easiest fixes that could be undertaken by the programmers. Unlike my Mining Re-Balancing idea, this one is very simple.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Dracthera
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 01:27:00 -
[18]
As a mission runner I'd love to see less loot and higher bounties or salvage value to rats. It saves me time in looting/refining/hauling stuff to make money. Most of the time the loot is wasted anyway because I don't feel like salvaging/looting every mission. I'd rather have the cash rewards up-front in lieu of the loot unless it's something special. |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 01:53:00 -
[19]
Things are selling at zero (or negative) profit margins DUH because people enjoy doing industrial things in the game. So people are going to mine and make stuff even if it's not profitable.
SOLUTION: GTFOOJ
Go to lowsec or 0.0 and you can make 100% over Jita prices just selling Rifters.
.............
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Tom Peeping
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 05:40:00 -
[20]
Seriously... a lot of those "worthless" cause you can't sell for a profit in Jita, BPO's you're referring to are MASSIVELY valuable elsewhere. It seems like you know you're stuff in some other respects, so I'm puzzled you can be presenting this argument. There's so many places where there's a poor market, yet loads of through traffic that one can sell things at significantly higher prices due to the convenience factor. Yet there's usually hardly anyone taking advantage of it.
May I suggest you take advantage of the present opportunities? |
Rolly Polly
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:07:00 -
[21]
I agree with your views on the loot items and mineral influx from those refied loot items, I disagree with changing rat drops to any form of what is used now as isk sinks, those are needed and the amount of money filtered out of the ecomony just for pos fuel alone staggers the mind.
Knowing CCP if they do decide to do something they'll start dropping a new materials used in some very simpleÖ 10 day long manufacturing process for something new. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jeanette Plato on 08/01/2009 07:11:56
Originally by: Tom Peeping
Seriously... a lot of those "worthless" cause you can't sell for a profit in Jita, BPO's you're referring to are MASSIVELY valuable elsewhere. It seems like you know you're stuff in some other respects, so I'm puzzled you can be presenting this argument. There's so many places where there's a poor market, yet loads of through traffic that one can sell things at significantly higher prices due to the convenience factor. Yet there's usually hardly anyone taking advantage of it.
May I suggest you take advantage of the present opportunities?
Here's the thing. Let's say I have an item that I can manufacture at 10K a unit and it takes me 3 days to manufacture 1000 of those units. That item might be selling in Jita for say around cost, but I can place a buy order for 1000 units at 8K a unit. I repeat this for 20 or 30 different items, I then load up my Obelisk and head off to other markets where I know I can sell at a decent profit. Why bother manufacturing? Not worth it.
And it's not just Jita, every major market hub has items like this. It seems that Rats overdrop certain items in different regions, so whatever those items are, they will be selling for practically nothing. The trick is identifying those items and placing the right buy orders and finding the right market where they sell. Either way, it's not worth it for me to manufacture these same items at a higher price. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rolly Polly
I agree with your views on the loot items and mineral influx from those refied loot items, I disagree with changing rat drops to any form of what is used now as isk sinks, those are needed and the amount of money filtered out of the ecomony just for pos fuel alone staggers the mind.
Knowing CCP if they do decide to do something they'll start dropping a new materials used in some very simpleÖ 10 day long manufacturing process for something new.
True, we do need the ISK sinks to keep TOO much money from inflating the economy, but at the same time I don't think Rat droppings would be enough to keep the POS's going very long anyways, plus if this has the correct effect, the cost of manufactured items would go up, and this would cause manufacturing lines to become much better utilized. This in turn will increase the fees paid for manufacturing slots (just take a look at Research slot fees!), which itself will become a MUCH bigger ISK sink than what it is currently. |
Rolly Polly
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:35:00 -
[24]
Saying that rat drops wont dent the pos fuel is really comparable to saying rat drops wont alter mineral prices, the scale of what comes out of the npc wrecks must be staggering. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rolly Polly
Saying that rat drops wont dent the pos fuel is really comparable to saying rat drops wont alter mineral prices, the scale of what comes out of the npc wrecks must be staggering.
Well the big difference is that CCP can come up with different ISK sinks, possibly by increasing Manufacturing slot prices, introducing POS certificates for any POS, not just Empire, or maybe by introducing "Gate Fees" for people to pay to move around. Right now however, the current setup affects the livelihood of Miners and Manufacturers.
As I've stated previously though, I'm fairly sure that with the increase in manufacturing to compensate for the dearth of "Loot Dropped" Tech I items, CCP will see a massive increase in THAT ISK sink. |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 07:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
And many of these are BPO's that I've researched to 225 or better ME. Worthless!
225 ME? pretty much anything past 20 is a complete waste of time. No wonder all the research slots are full. Bunch of noobs out there that don't even know how research works. Seriously does it really make you any isk to save one or two units of trit per unit of production? You'll never even make up the research costs.
And then yer *****in about drops when you can't even figure out how to research efficiently. Perfectionist much? Control freak much? Learn game mechanics and then come back and talk.
WRONG, you need to look at the numbers. There are some items that an ME of 5 or 10 is "perfect", but there are others that an ME of 225 or more is "perfect". Oh and by the way, I have my own research slots on my own POS, so I don't take up Empire POS slots.
A great example of this is the 1MN MicroWarpDrive BPO.
an ME of 382 would require 29,165.68 ISK worth of Minerals to manufacture a single unit, where an ME of 383 (which is perfect for this particular print), requires 29161.40 ISK worth of minerals. Oh and BTW, your ME of 20 would cost 29291.78 worth of minerals.
Fullmetal: correct!
OP: you're an idiot!
How much time did you spend researching your BPO 373 points beyond what could possibly make sense, just to save a few dozen ISK per unit? Go and look on wikipedia or something and find out what opportunity cost means. With that time you could have researched some battleship BPOs to save a few million ISK per run, or you could have been making BPC copies worth real money. Your "perfect" is ridiculous... to get "perfect" ME for a battleship you'd be researching for 20 years or more, to save what? 25 isk?
Learn how research works.
Learn how trade works.
Hint: The markets that need your products and will pay top dollar for them are not the kind of place you want to drive your Obelisk to. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 08:03:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jeanette Plato on 08/01/2009 08:07:01
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
And many of these are BPO's that I've researched to 225 or better ME. Worthless!
225 ME? pretty much anything past 20 is a complete waste of time. No wonder all the research slots are full. Bunch of noobs out there that don't even know how research works. Seriously does it really make you any isk to save one or two units of trit per unit of production? You'll never even make up the research costs.
And then yer *****in about drops when you can't even figure out how to research efficiently. Perfectionist much? Control freak much? Learn game mechanics and then come back and talk.
WRONG, you need to look at the numbers. There are some items that an ME of 5 or 10 is "perfect", but there are others that an ME of 225 or more is "perfect". Oh and by the way, I have my own research slots on my own POS, so I don't take up Empire POS slots.
A great example of this is the 1MN MicroWarpDrive BPO.
an ME of 382 would require 29,165.68 ISK worth of Minerals to manufacture a single unit, where an ME of 383 (which is perfect for this particular print), requires 29161.40 ISK worth of minerals. Oh and BTW, your ME of 20 would cost 29291.78 worth of minerals.
Fullmetal: correct!
OP: you're an idiot!
How much time did you spend researching your BPO 373 points beyond what could possibly make sense, just to save a few dozen ISK per unit? Go and look on wikipedia or something and find out what opportunity cost means. With that time you could have researched some battleship BPOs to save a few million ISK per run, or you could have been making BPC copies worth real money. Your "perfect" is ridiculous... to get "perfect" ME for a battleship you'd be researching for 20 years or more, to save what? 25 isk?
Learn how research works.
Learn how trade works.
Hint: The markets that need your products and will pay top dollar for them are not the kind of place you want to drive your Obelisk to.
That particular BPO, took maybe 20 days. Keep in mind that certain BPO's don't take much time to research. With my skills, most of the smaller BPO's only take hours to complete one cycle, so it makes sense to max out the research on them. Also keep in mind that when you have a BPO researched to "Perfect" levels your chance of producing a higher quality, higher run, higher rated invented T2 goes up dramatically.
My rule of thumb is that if I can get it to "Perfect" levels within less than 30 days, then I do it. Otherwise I try to get the cost down by 10%. About the only thing that I will research for more than 30 days is Battleships and larger.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 11:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
I'm surprised more people don't have anything to say on this topic.
Probably because a lot of people is shocked by how little thought you have put in the after-effects of your suggestions?
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
most items sold in Jita are no longer even manufactured, people simply place buy orders for those who have rat droppings to sell, they then turn around and place a huge batch up for sale
And you are using Jita as your benchmark for all the in game production. There are others markets.
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
I propose that CCP change loot drops to drop mostly non-manufactured items, such as Consumer items (POS fuel items?), Books, and in some of the higher plexes Limited run BPC's.
As already pointed out, you are:
1) removing T1 drops, so reducing a deflationary effect;
2) removing isk sinks (skillbooks, POS fuel and c.), so removing another deflationary effect;
3) removing reprocessed minerals, with a inflationary effect on minerals;
4) increasing mineral consumption for the production of those modules (again, inflationary effect on minerals prices).
Perfect, you have given us something like 3-400% price increase for all items.
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
"Named items" should also be dropped but more rarely than they currently are.
So increasing prices for named items, another inflationary effect.
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
Most Items that are not manufactured (such as "named" items) should also be moved to the contract system, just as all Pith class items are currently.
So adding more contracts and so making the contract interface even harder to read, giving a minimal mark up of 10.000 isk for even the lowest cost item, making it impossible to find an item if you don't know it exist (mostly a problem for new players).
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
The point is, why should a mission runner be training and competing in Marketing skills, when really they should be training Contracting skills to get rid of the items he's aquired?
I.e: why I should have competition, I want to own the market with my metaitem 0 production. 
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
I believe that these changes, coupled with Re-balancing Mining would make for a much more robust market that makes it more worthwhile for Miners and Industrialists.
No, it will make for an half dead market, where new player buy metaitem 0 modules without even knowing that there is something better, a Contract system where people swear searching for the module they want and a huge level of inflation.
You must love inflation a lot. But having x billions in your wallet mean very little if with those billions you can buy the same items you could buy before with x millions.
|
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 13:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
I'm surprised more people don't have anything to say on this topic.
Probably because a lot of people is shocked by how little thought you have put in the after-effects of your suggestions?
OK, so maybe I went a bit too far, maybe moving all non-manufactured items to the contract system would be a bad idea. I still think the rate of drops on T1 items is way too high, causing way too much deflation in the market.
Many of you keep saying that "there are other markets" I know this. I understand this, between my 4 toons, I have nearly a thousand orders out there, and the majority are in other markets. My whole point though, is that when I can CONSISTENTLY buy items in Jita for less than what it cost me to produce them, then there is something wrong with the market. It has become far too deflationary.
There has to be a balance, and mabye my ideas would be far too inflationary, but the current level of Deflation isn't a good thing either. |
Makko Gray
Gallente
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
Leather Rose Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 17:20:00 -
[30]
How about you buy and refine all the items on the market at less than their mineral cost as a cheap source of minerals. Then use those to build the tech I items that can be sold profitably, after all part of the skill is knowing what to build to make money.
Even if you got rid of all rat drops there will always be someone manufacturing and selling something somewhere at a lose, either to monopolise the market or because they see minerals they mine as being free so they still think they're making a good profit.
|
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 20:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Makko Gray
Even if you got rid of all rat drops there will always be someone manufacturing and selling something somewhere at a lose, either to monopolise the market or because they see minerals they mine as being free so they still think they're making a good profit.
Or because they play EVE as an industrialist because they think it's fun, and aren't going to quit building just because their blueprint isn't profitable.
PS: I really don't think OP has found the "other markets" we're talking about.
.............
|
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 21:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Makko Gray
How about you buy and refine all the items on the market at less than their mineral cost as a cheap source of minerals. Then use those to build the tech I items that can be sold profitably, after all part of the skill is knowing what to build to make money.
Even if you got rid of all rat drops there will always be someone manufacturing and selling something somewhere at a lose, either to monopolise the market or because they see minerals they mine as being free so they still think they're making a good profit.
I'd rather buy in one market to sell in another. Most of the areas that I'm buying from are market hubs that charge enormous fees for building. It only makes sense to build the most expensive ships in these particular areas.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Lythane
|
Posted - 2009.01.08 21:46:00 -
[33]
I agree. Manufacturable items should only be made by players
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Alexander Vallen
|
Posted - 2009.01.09 00:22:00 -
[34]
I've been wondering about things like this for a little while. I'm a little concerned about getting hold of rare metals like Zydrine in highsec with this plan. I'm sure trade will pickup the slack eventually however.
/signed.
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Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 01:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Alexander Vallen
I've been wondering about things like this for a little while. I'm a little concerned about getting hold of rare metals like Zydrine in highsec with this plan. I'm sure trade will pickup the slack eventually however.
/signed.
I have a separate post on re-balancing Mining
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 03:52:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jeanette Plato
Originally by: shady trader
One of the devs said a while ago they were talking about removing tech 1 item drops (name and faction would still drop). They were going to rebalance the bounties and rig components to compensate for the loss.
How long ago did they propose this? Any links?
Al Hail El Codge
Making T1 production more viable?
And it was CCP Chronotis that stated
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
...I would tend to agree that even in its fairly saturated state, tech 1 profits are to be had (with some very high margins) with the right choice of items to make, especially something as simple as ammo if your near a mission running hub for example as a nice starter.
As I mentioned in a comment elsewhere, we are looking to overhaul loot tables and decrease the drops of player made tech 1 in exchange for meta equivalents for eg to help reinvigorate the market a little as an ongoing project.
There were other threads that also discussed T1 manufacture and meta item manufacture a great deal back then, and Chronotis graced us with his presence back then too, and a very interesting discussion was had by all. Sorry, but the above link is the only one I was able to find, though there were other, even better (IMO) threads too.
Do a bit of searching and you may be pleased about all the great ideas suggested back then, commented on by Chronotis, and then promptly never mentioned again 
--
Don't harsh my mellow |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.10 12:17:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Wannabehero
.....
Do a bit of searching and you may be pleased about all the great ideas suggested back then, commented on by Chronotis, and then promptly never mentioned again
Well manufacturing isn't as sexy as the next Hyper Damage TIII Pwnge ship, so I guess we don't get looked at quite as often.
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The Amargosa Observatory Initiative |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.12 05:13:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jayan Levoy
...
For missions eliminate all T1 drops. Only allow named drops and ajust the drop rate to keep the price higher than T1 items. The bounties/mission award can be ajusted to compensate for the decreased drops. This might help bring the T1 market back a little....
I don't know about elminating ALL T1 drops, but the Tables could at least be adjusted to begin to lower them, see what the market bears out, then go back and tweak some more. If the Industrialist are up to the task of fully supplying the market, then we should at least be given the opportunity to see if we're up to the task. |
Jeanette Plato
Caldari
Amargosa Observatory
Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 16:23:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Johli
Edited by: Johli on 16/01/2009 02:31:48
Living in the drone regions, I am obligated to say, no, don't remove alloys, plus some other stuff that wouldn't make sense.
The rats have no bounty, thus removing alloys (or messing with them) would just increase the crappiness of the space. It's like ratting, but you're not making any money.
Solution? I don't know, but what people would usually throw out about now is something to do with low-sec and other things (exploration?)
(edit: I was referring to earlier posts. I haven't done any calculations involving trit ratios in alloys.
Even if these ratios were changed, they could make sure that the Monetary amount stayed about the same. As an example, if they say removed 1 unit of the Mex from an alloy, increase the amount of tritanium by about 5 or so, and it would equal the same amount of money.
Other that, or actually have Concord pay bounties on them, or a combination of both ideas. |
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