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Shouldn't Caldari Tech 2 ships have at least some sort of drone bay?

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Scarlet Pimpdaddy	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:12:00 - [1] I don't really care what you say but I have noticed that caldari tech 2 ships of the combat variety have no drone bays. Does this not put them at a disadvantage to say the gallente or the amarr recons? Discuss.
Aravel Thon	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:13:00 - [2] The nighthawk and vultue and widow and golem beg to differ.
Soi Mala	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:14:00 - [3] Originally by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy I don't really care what you say but I have noticed that caldari tech 2 ships of the combat variety have no drone bays. Does this not put them at a disadvantage to say the gallente or the amarr recons? Discuss. Not really. :)
Scarlet Pimpdaddy	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Aravel Thon The nighthawk and vultue and widow and golem beg to differ. I was thinking more in the cruiser class. Sorry should have made that clear from the start.
Scarlet Pimpdaddy	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:18:00 - [5] Originally by: Soi Mala Originally by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy I don't really care what you say but I have noticed that caldari tech 2 ships of the combat variety have no drone bays. Does this not put them at a disadvantage to say the gallente or the amarr recons? Discuss. Not really. :) Explain...
Tarn Reis	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy I don't really care what you say but I have noticed that caldari tech 2 ships of the combat variety have no drone bays. Does this not put them at a disadvantage to say the gallente or the amarr recons? Discuss. Than why would you be asking at all....?
Scarlet Pimpdaddy	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Tarn Reis Originally by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy I don't really care what you say but I have noticed that caldari tech 2 ships of the combat variety have no drone bays. Does this not put them at a disadvantage to say the gallente or the amarr recons? Discuss. Than why would you be asking at all....? I just wanted to throw it out there. I have heard this brought up before by RL mates and corpies in-game.
Aravel Thon	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:21:00 - [8] I guess the philosphy behind caldari hac/recons are to engage at range. Ofc, this philosophy doesnt have to be followed, but i assume that engaging at this distance negates the need for a dronebay. Plus every race has their own little quirks that give them flavor. minmatar dronebay sizes are usually 30 to 40 or 175, where as gallente have more rounded 25, 50, 125 sizes
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:40:00 - [9] I've always said that if CCP nerfs the falcon, they should give the cerberus and eagle drone bays..... (and the falcon) -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:40:00 - [10] Edited by: Deadeye Devie on 07/01/2009 20:42:14 simple as this, caldari are enemies of gallente, gallenti are drone using armour tankers by an large, with a touch of hybrids. caldary however are as a rule, missle using shield tankers, with a touch of hybrids...and when it comes to hybrids, gal are mostly blaster up close and caldari are ranged rails. upshot of this is if you want drones then your first port of call is gal, then either amarr or minnie. would u expect to find a shield tanked HAM gal ship???!!?!? no, thats caldari systems and tech, so dont look for gal on caldari ships...just like amarr and minnie, 1 has capless weapons the other, cap-happy-munching lasers...1 race specialises (or so were told) in speed, the other is, most of the time, the slowest. as a general rule heres what each race is responsible for and what u can expect from them... Gal:- therm damage, armour tanked, drones, blasters and rails, targeting dampners Caldari:- kinetic damage, shield tanked, missles, a few rail ships, ewar for big groups, ecm and eccm Amar:- em damage, armour tanked, lasers with high cap usage, good cap on ships as a result, known to be some of the slowest ships (in general, not all the time), nos and neuts and tracking disrupers as racial ewar Minnie:- explosive damage, no fixed tank type, used to be speed tanks, known for fast ships, better at sub BS ships than anything bigger, capless weapons, pretty much a touch of all other races mixed up with no real focus on any 1 field that they excell in, racial ewar is target painters and webbers.....and duct tape. sooo, in closing, if you dont care what we say, why bloody ask!!! the simple answer is that Gal is thier enemy, so they dont use drones as much......can you name me 1 gal ship that uses missles as it primary weapons system????....1 amarr ship that uses projectiles??....or a minnie ship with laser fitting??? Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themself without that law is both.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:46:00 - [11] Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 07/01/2009 20:46:52 Originally by: Deadeye Devie can you name me 1 gal ship that uses missles as it primary weapons system????....1 amarr ship that uses projectiles??....or a minnie ship with laser fitting??? No, but every one of those races CAN fit what you suggest, just without a ship bonus for non-racial weapons. (minor edit for clarity)
Scarlet Pimpdaddy Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy on 07/01/2009 20:50:59 Originally by: Deadeye Devie sooo, in closing, if you dont care what we say, why bloody ask!!! the simple answer is that Gal is thier enemy, so they dont use drones as much......can you name me 1 gal ship that uses missles as it primary weapons system????....1 amarr ship that uses projectiles??....or a minnie ship with laser fitting??? Like i said before, I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. I am taking a wee break from study and felt like making a post. Plus like I also said before, some RL mates have mentioned this and my corpies also. Not being caldari I don't have a vested interest, but its just a topic for dicussion. P.S. Last time I'm putting this explaination of posting a topic which I don't care too much about EDIT:P.P.S. It was also supposed to be an anti-smartass measure. See that worked well then.
Deadeye Devie Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.07 20:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Cade Morrigan Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 07/01/2009 20:46:52 Originally by: Deadeye Devie can you name me 1 gal ship that uses missles as it primary weapons system????....1 amarr ship that uses projectiles??....or a minnie ship with laser fitting??? No, but every one of those races CAN fit what you suggest, just without a ship bonus for non-racial weapons. (minor edit for clarity) True, true, but i was generalising on the point that the main defining attributes of what each race is responsible for governs the bonuses, turret slots, module slots, damage type bias and general feel to each race. Just couldnt think on how to write it out easier.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.07 21:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Deadeye Devie Originally by: Cade Morrigan Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 07/01/2009 20:46:52 Originally by: Deadeye Devie can you name me 1 gal ship that uses missles as it primary weapons system????....1 amarr ship that uses projectiles??....or a minnie ship with laser fitting??? No, but every one of those races CAN fit what you suggest, just without a ship bonus for non-racial weapons. (minor edit for clarity) True, true, but i was generalising on the point that the main defining attributes of what each race is responsible for governs the bonuses, turret slots, module slots, damage type bias and general feel to each race. Just couldnt think on how to write it out easier. Oh i understand and agree with the notion that every race should have a flavor(s) that makes it unique. However the complete lack of drone bays on several caldari t2s goes too far imo. Drones are more than just additional dps these days and I don't see why the Cerberus doesn't have the same drone bay as the Caracal. It wouldn't in any way infringe on the Gallente's drone-centric fleet to leave small drone bays on those caldari ships.
PraetorNZ NQX Innovations	Posted - 2009.01.07 22:37:00 - [15] i fail to see the use of about 60k max range drones on ships that often have optimal ranges and used ranges of over 150-200k
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.01.07 22:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Cade Morrigan Oh i understand and agree with the notion that every race should have a flavor(s) that makes it unique. However the complete lack of drone bays on several caldari t2s goes too far imo. Drones are more than just additional dps these days and I don't see why the Cerberus doesn't have the same drone bay as the Caracal. It wouldn't in any way infringe on the Gallente's drone-centric fleet to leave small drone bays on those caldari ships. So what would you propose they take away from the ship to give it a drone bay?
Atreus Tac Quatidion Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.01.07 22:49:00 - [17] Originally by: PraetorNZ i fail to see the use of about 60k max range drones on ships that often have optimal ranges and used ranges of over 150-200k I dont like this comment for some reasons (of course). Just becuase you sit at 150-200km dosen't mean you wont get attacked. moreover if you are going to be, it is going to be from smaller ships, the like of which are best dealt with by drones. Hence you need them. Moreover with ships like the Eagle, to be sitting at 150km means your dps is soo bad that it is rather pointless. what is more likely is that you are going to be sitting at 60 km as it is easier to get to and you find yourself in that position more often. at this mean that drones are usefull. And if you have some sentries would be extremly useful. they are of course sniping drones arent they. why cant the sniping ships have a few of them. last but not least, rails dont have the best tracking and find it hard to hit stuff when they come close, unlike blasters and hence a few lights would come in handy if a rifter comes along. That is all, feel free not to read this if you are going to troll __________________________________________________________ -Cheers- Atreus Tac
Atreus Tac Quatidion Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.01.07 22:52:00 - [18] Edited by: Atreus Tac on 07/01/2009 22:54:35 Originally by: EFT Warrior So what would you propose they take away from the ship to give it a drone bay? i dont think they need to, going back to the eagle, it is very niche and having a small drones bay only 10m3 would allow it to enter much different situations with more choice. Moreover the beagle would get a real step up as it is probably used just as much as a rail fit, if not edit: sorry for double post __________________________________________________________ -Cheers- Atreus Tac
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.01.07 22:55:00 - [19] I think you missed the entire point of Caldari and their philosophy of warfare, so I'll say it here: Caldari are all about specialization and long range engagements, with emphasis on shield systems and electronic warfare for defense and long range missile systems/railguns for offense. There is very little emphasis on drones or armor or speed. If you don't like the Caldari philosophy you are more than able to train up for another race that suits your needs.
Lt Angus Caldari End Game.	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:12:00 - [20] Originally by: EFT Warrior I think you missed the entire point of Caldari and their philosophy of warfare, so I'll say it here: Caldari are all about specialization and long range engagements, with emphasis on shield systems and electronic warfare for defense and long range missile systems/railguns for offense. There is very little emphasis on drones or armor or speed. If you don't like the Caldari philosophy you are more than able to train up for another race that suits your needs. thats why caldari suck at their own philosphy, longrange ships need drones, because their guns cant track anything that comes close Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Atreus Tac Quatidion Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:13:00 - [21] Originally by: EFT Warrior I think you missed the entire point of Caldari and their philosophy of warfare, so I'll say it here: Caldari are all about specialization and long range engagements, with emphasis on shield systems and electronic warfare for defense and long range missile systems/railguns for offense. There is very little emphasis on drones or armor or speed. If you don't like the Caldari philosophy you are more than able to train up for another race that suits your needs. thanks for your imput. I agree with you that caldari is all about specialiSation, however th rokh looks sexy so i havent changed race. But also i think they can have drone bays while keeping their traditional role. Having drones would not make them into in your face pewpew, but i would bet that eagle pilots wouldnt mind ahing the shield resit bonus changing to a bonus that makes sentries small and fit into a small drone bay. just a random idea. but i dont think everyone would fit hammerheads or warriors in their drone bays if we had some. oh maybe a bonus to drone Ecm __________________________________________________________ -Cheers- Atreus Tac
Zxenis Caldari Devious - B.L.A.C.K Water Special Operations Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:18:00 - [22] Originally by: EFT Warrior I think you missed the entire point of Caldari and their philosophy of warfare, so I'll say it here: Caldari are all about specialization and long range engagements, with emphasis on shield systems and electronic warfare for defense and long range missile systems/railguns for offense. There is very little emphasis on drones or armor or speed. If you don't like the Caldari philosophy you are more than able to train up for another race that suits your needs. I could care less if caldari cruisers get drone bays or not but if their philosophy is what is stated above, why did they spend the R&D to develop their own tech 2 drones, ala wasp, vespa, and hornets. If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:19:00 - [23] So, you're telling me its a surprise to you that a sniper boat at long range with poor tracking can't kill a tackler? Neither can any other sniper ship for that matter; I really can't see what the complaint is. Maybe you didn't read what I posted, so I'll repost it for your convenience: Originally by: EFT Warrior Caldari are all about specialization and long range engagements... All I'm reading is "Caldari ships should all have drones because I said so!" without giving a good reason why. All ships are balanced with everything in mind, including drone bays. If you give ships without drone bays some bandwidth CCP will take something else from the ship, be it a bonus, powergrid, cpu, whatever it might be. People would whine and cry if the falcon got it's optimal ECM bonus taken away and given a 25m^3 drone bay instead. A 10 MBit bandwidth on a ship isn't going to save you from a tackler, and you aren't going to get a dronebay added without something taken away. The only reason Caldari have a drone bay on a ship is if it compliments that ship's niche role.
Atreus Tac Quatidion Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:27:00 - [24] Originally by: EFT Warrior All ships are balanced with everything in mind yeah, so balanced. its not as if people go for the zealot over the eagle for its looks is it. and i wasnt saying they should just get more drones and loose nothin. i was saying nerf their tank and have some drones whicg will help the. use ecm to run form tacklers or sentries to help snipe. i dont think that is so much to ask or even to blindly hope for __________________________________________________________ -Cheers- Atreus Tac
Soporo Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:39:00 - [25] Quote: i was saying nerf their tank and have some drones whicg will help Screw that. Our tank is often quite lame due to the necessary pvp mods, particularly now coupled with missile use = painter required.
Inara Subaka Caldari the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.01.07 23:53:00 - [26] First, I'd like to see a drone bay on either the Cerb or Eagle, not both, and maybe on the Rook since it's supposed to be the "combat recon" (but not the Falcon). Originally by: Deadeye Devie can you name me 1 gal ship that uses missles as it primary weapons system????.... Second, just because I remembered one, and I feel like poking holes in people's arguments (even when I agree with them)... I think you forgot this ship.
Cade Morrigan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.08 01:46:00 - [27] Originally by: EFT Warrior The only reason Caldari have a drone bay on a ship is if it compliments that ship's niche role. What "niche role" of the Caracal and Moa makes drones benefit them more than they would benefit the Cerb and Eagle?
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.08 02:04:00 - [28] Me want Harpy wiht drone bay, that would be all kinds of awsome :)
Number 86 Eat Ship and Die	Posted - 2009.01.08 02:36:00 - [29] Edited by: Number 86 on 08/01/2009 02:38:11 Originally by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy I don't really care what you say....... Discuss. wat? edit* .... wait..... Originally by: Scarlet Pimpdaddy I don't really care what you say....... Discuss. wat?
Radcjk Caldari Prox XII Collidable Objects	Posted - 2009.01.08 03:36:00 - [30] Because while Caldari have very awesome niche roles, we utterly lack versatility... and ccp tends to keep to that trend. Never mind every other Combat Recon and Force Recon for every other race relies heavily on drones, we dont get them. ECM + Drones has proven horribly bad in the past. So mostly, we get boned. I know, I know..omgz, but ju's hav da falcon ! I know. We're expected to deal mediocre damage at range, hoping our niche tacklers keep the target locked down, and then die to anything that comes in close. Cross training ftw. As to recon / drone boats that use missiles as a primary weapon, also see the Curse.

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