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New trader needs advice about protecting ship

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Umbrig Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.08 14:27:00 - [1] Hi I'm new to trading (and Eve). I was recently picking up stuff in a low-sec system when I got jumped and killed by a pirate in a heavy interceptor. I just watched whilst my ship (Bestower) disintegrated! Any advice on keeping this ship in one piece long enough to warp? If IÆd managed to hold out for another 10 seconds or so IÆd have warped and escaped (I wasnÆt scrammed). I have all my low slots fitted with cargo extenders; is this a good idea? Should I perhaps get rid of some of these and fit armour reppers? Not sure about plating æcos the ship is slow enough as it is! Are shield extenders useful on a Bestower? Is it worth fitting a weapon given thereÆs only one slot available? Obviously the ship isnÆt meant for either speed or offense but IÆd like to be able to stay alive long enough to make a run for it... IÆve previously been in and out of low-sec lots of times without any problems û I guess I was just unlucky this time. So, any thoughts on how to survive alone in low-sec with a slow industrial û other than ædonÆt go thereÆ!? Thanks in advance Umbrig
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar MasterBlasters Inc. CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2009.01.08 14:36:00 - [2] Use a blockade runner
Sidi elDarfel	Posted - 2009.01.08 15:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Umbrig IÆve previously been in and out of low-sec lots of times without any problems û I guess I was just unlucky this time. Actually I think you were lucky all the other times and that day your luck ran out. A hauler in low sec is just about irrisistable to even non-pirates. My low-sec runner has wcs on the low slots and all the shield tank I can fit on the mids .... and I still get ganked about once a month. It's the cost of doing business.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.08 15:06:00 - [4] Edited by: Cygnus Scott on 08/01/2009 15:10:44 Well you'll probably want to drop the Cargo Extenders, or at least cut them down to 1 or 2. Some other things you can fit are Armor Repper, Warp Core Stabilizer, and a Nanofiber Internal Structure I. The Repper is pretty obvious, the WCS will help against Warp Disruptors,and the NIS will help your speed and ship agility. That being said, if you want to haul in low sec you should aim for Transport Ships & a Cloak. Also get EVEmon, it has links to Battle Clinic loadouts to give you some ideas on how to equip your ships. Also for low sec work the Caldari Badgers are better since you can load the mids with tank and still have the lows for other goodies. Another thing you might try is equipping a jamming device for each race in the mids and using them to save your butt. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Dedalus77 Junkyard Dogs	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:12:00 - [5] Train for Transport ships, I recommend the Crane as it can fit a missile launcher.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Dedalus77 Train for Transport ships, I recommend the Crane as it can fit a missile launcher. Now why wold you want to waste its one high slot on an missile launcher and not a cloak?
Billy Sastard Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:21:00 - [7] Edited by: Billy Sastard on 08/01/2009 16:21:15 Originally by: Cygnus Scott Originally by: Dedalus77 Train for Transport ships, I recommend the Crane as it can fit a missile launcher. Now why wold you want to waste its one high slot on an missile launcher and not a cloak? And why would he want to shoot at someone thus setting up an aggression timer which locks one from jumping or docking?
Umbrig Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:30:00 - [8] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Use a blockade runner A silly question but what is a blockade runner - or how do you do it? Thanks Umbrig
Billy Sastard Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.08 16:37:00 - [9] Look up the ship catagory 'transport ships'. They are tech 2 haulers which are fairly agile with the ability to warp cloaked but a fairly small cargo hold. The other type of transport ship is the 'deep space transport' which has considerable cargo space, can tank well, and has 2 points of built in warp core strength (meaning you can have 2 points of warp scramble on your ship and still warp off), however this ship is pretty slow. These ships take some time to train into, but are well worth the time for someone who is making routine trips into lowsec. All that aside, the #1 thing you can do to avoid losing ships in lowsec is to scout the route ahead of you. The preferred method is to have either a friend or a 2nd account in a shuttle go ahead of you to check the gates, if there is a camp the scout in the shuttle can flee and you can keep your hauler safe and work on figuring out an alternate route or simply wait them out.
Tandin The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.08 18:33:00 - [10] Edited by: Tandin on 08/01/2009 18:34:19 Originally by: Umbrig Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Use a blockade runner A silly question but what is a blockade runner - or how do you do it? Thanks Umbrig It's one of two kinds of Transports which are T2 haulers. It'll take you a little while to train for but it can use a covert ops cloaking device which allows you to warp cloak. Since you're amarr I believe the Prorator is the ship you should look over. Search the market for one and show info on it or check this link: Prorator I personally use a viator (gallente blockade runner) and I find it's very safe. The only real vulnerability is when you undock from a lowsec station.

Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2009.01.08 20:22:00 - [11] People who are telling you to fit armor repairers and weapons have it wrong. There is no way you are going to be able to fight off a competent pirate... they would not engage if they couldn't win! For ship fittings, I recommend fitting ECM modules in the mid-slots, because those are the only things that will allow you to escape a heavy interdictor. (Odds are not good, though!) And maybe a couple warp core stabilizers in the low slots, which will allow you to escape one or two other lone pirates. Also, switch to a Sigil for lowsec as it is a bit more agile. One thing you can do is make insta-undock bookmarks. Undock from a station in a fast frigate with an MWD and just fly in a straight line a few hundred km, then make a bookmark. When you undock in your industrial, warp immediately to that bookmark. Then it's very hard for pirates to catch you in that system if you warp to zero km off the exit gate. Your real risk in lowsec is after jumping through a gate. Only ways to avoid gatecamps are to use a scout, or to use the starmap to highlight systems with lots of pilots in space and/or lots of recent pod-kills.
Tandin The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.08 20:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker One thing you can do is make insta-undock bookmarks. Undock from a station in a fast frigate with an MWD and just fly in a straight line a few hundred km, then make a bookmark. When you undock in your industrial, warp immediately to that bookmark. Then it's very hard for pirates to catch you in that system if you warp to zero km off the exit gate. The problem with undocks is that you quite often go to a station that you've never visited before. I agree with undocks at stations you use regularly though. I always use them at stations where I cyno in a jump freighter and at stations I visit regularly. Cyno, dock, undock, warp to undock BM, (have webber alt waiting at undock) align and warp to gate, jump to highsec. Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Your real risk in lowsec is after jumping through a gate. Only ways to avoid gatecamps are to use a scout, or to use the starmap to highlight systems with lots of pilots in space and/or lots of recent pod-kills. This is why I like blockade runners. They're too crunchy to pop with a smartbombing BS and any competent covert cloak operator has virtually zero chance of getting caught in lowsec. Bubbles in 0.0 is another matter entirely.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.08 21:56:00 - [13] Quoting the others, get a blockade runner. Put a covert ops cloak on them and a microwarpdrive. Depending on how dangerous the space you're in is, you may want to fit cargo expanders or you may want to fit additional safety mods (overdrives, warpcore stabs, etc). As for using a t1 industrial-use a shuttle or a fast t1 frig to scout the first jump into lowsec, as that's where 80% of camps are.
Umbrig Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.08 23:22:00 - [14] Hey guys Thanks for the advice - it looks like I need to spend some time (a lot of time?!) training for a blockade runner and cloaking devices. Meanwhile I'll try some of the other suggestions. I was initially hauling the stuff into high sec using a fast frigate but it was taking just too long so I risked entering low sec in my industrial having been lucky many times in the past - and because I never saw another ship on my route in the system whilst I was using the frigate. I got jumped immediately after undocking and it took too long to get into warp - and pop! Well you live and learn - or die and learn... Umbrig
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.01.09 01:00:00 - [15] Hi, Just a few pointers here too: Get the following skills as Fast as you Can. Spaceship Command 5 Navigation 5 Evasive Manuevering 4 These will increase the speed at which your ship (any ship) manuevers and Aligns to Warp. Thus you decrease the time it takes to get to warp. That will give you at least 3 seconds, thus increasing your chances of survival with cargo... But getting some others ECM modules (against Heavy Inderdictors) is good but next time you may be jumped by three frigates and thus cant fight them all off. The cloak is good too..
Allvan Harl	Posted - 2009.01.09 04:40:00 - [16] There is a minor but important point that hasn't been mentioned here yet. Those heavy interdictors use a warp jamming module that has a strength of 100. You will be jammed no matter how many warp core stabilizers you have. I know because this happened to me. The reason for the cloak is to get far enough away from the heavy interdictor so you can warp out (amongst other scenarios others can provide.) The ECM modules are to enable you to break someone's target lock on you for which they need to use their warp jamming modules. Break their lock and you can get away (assuming you're already up to speed and aligned.)
Blonde Shopper	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:36:00 - [17] cloak cannot be used too close to a station, so you're gonna have to warp off fast, faster than they can target a big flying box with huge signature... for gates, cloaks will allow you to at least align, remove cloak and warp (the basic one). For stations, it's a bit more complex, the ECM might be your only hope...
Billy Sastard Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.09 15:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Blonde Shopper cloak cannot be used too close to a station, so you're gonna have to warp off fast, faster than they can target a big flying box with huge signature... for gates, cloaks will allow you to at least align, remove cloak and warp (the basic one). For stations, it's a bit more complex, the ECM might be your only hope... Preperation beforehand is the answer to this. Go to the station in a frigate fitted with a MWD, dock, undock and turn on the MWD and fly in a straight line until you are off grid or at least REALLY far away (200+km at the minimum). Once you are at a safe distance bring up P&P and create a bookmark. Now you have what is called an instant undock safe, to use it undock and then immediately warp to it. Because you are ejected from station at max speed and in line with your bookmark you should warp instantly thus preventing anyone from locking you. As soon as you hit the safespot warp off to your gate and you are on your way. <-------------------------------------------------> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.09 17:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker People who are telling you to fit armor repairers and weapons have it wrong. There is no way you are going to be able to fight off a competent pirate... they would not engage if they couldn't win! I only mention the Repper since he may be currently limited in skill or ISK for some of these other modules as he is new to EVE. In no way do I believe he can or even should try to a) engage or b) tank a pirate. The repper can in some instances provide him with a second or two that may be the difference between him going pop and having some structure left as he warps away. It wouldn't be my first choice of items in the low but lacking the skills or funds for something else (WCS or I-stab) a repper or DCU is better than nothing at all. Also don't forget folks that many new players don't have 2nd accounts for a scouting Alt, which can add to the time it takes to make the run. Another thing the OP can do (if he doesn't have a 2nd account) is move the goods to the closest high sec station first, and for one of the trips drop a repackaged shuttle in the cargo bay along with the ship survival fitting. Once the entire load (if it requires more than one trip) is in the high sec station get in the shuttle and then scout. Once he's done fit the transport with the survival fitting and make the necessary trips. Once you get to Freighter...well that's a different story. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Umbrig Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:21:00 - [20] Hey all Thanks for the additional advice. I've now got the skills for a repper but not AB or MWD as yet. Skilling up for navigation, evasive maneuvering and spaceship command as advised. I use a Magnate frigate with cargo extenders for fast(er) entry and exit into/out of low sec and for scouting. Takes more journeys but is safer I think. Long term goal is to move into a blockade runner with cloaking. My Bestower was ganked in high sec recently but I managed to escape before I lost the ship so a repper does come in handy... Cheers Umbrig

Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Blonde Shopper cloak cannot be used too close to a station, so you're gonna have to warp off fast, faster than they can target a big flying box with huge signature... For stations, it's a bit more complex, the ECM might be your only hope... You cannot dock if you are considered within 2km of an object (including a station). A lot of stations, the Caldari ones in particular, have a massive docking radius. In other words, when you undock, you can fly for 20km or so and still be "0m" from the station. On the one hand this can be considered a disadvantage because you cannot cloak - but on the other hand it's great, since you are always within range to redock. Best approach here is to undock, then hit Ctrl-Space when you get the black screen to stop your ship from moving. Take advantage of the 30 seconds invulnerability you get when undocking to check out the situation. Stopping your ship is important so you stay as close to the station as possible. This way, if someone attacks you when your 30 seconds is up, you will no longer have a session change timer and can just dock immediately. It's important to sit still and wait out the session change for this reason. If there's no ships, you can just warp straight away. If there are ships, then wait out the 30 seconds (having the session change timer showing in the top left really helps for this), then try to warp to the gate. If you get warp scrambled, just dock up and try again. The pirate will probably either be forced off by the gate guns, or will give up after a few times of trying shows him that he simply cannot catch you. Two things to watch out for here are stations that kick you out of docking range (some Gallente ones like to do this, e.g. the style in Auvergne), and ships that can do lots of damage to you in one volley. If you only take shield damage, this will be instantly repaired when you dock. If you take armour damage it will give the pirate encouragement to keep trying, and of course if you get popped completely in one volley it won't matter that you could have redocked. Hence increasing EHP, particularly shield EHP is recommended - see below. Originally by: Umbrig My Bestower was ganked in high sec recently but I managed to escape before I lost the ship so a repper does come in handy... Actually in these situations a repper usually does very little. CONCORD will come to punish the offenders very quickly, so you only have somewhere in the region of say 10-15 seconds to survive until the cavalry gets there and you are safe. In this time, you can get off very few cycles of the reps, which are better suited to taking moderate firepower over a sustained period. Modules that increase your hitpoints would be better - if you only need to survive for 10 seconds, then something that gives you 1000 extra HP is better than something that repairs 200 HP every 5 seconds for example. Since the lowslots of industrial ships are usually full of cargo expanders (in high-sec, at leat) the natural choice is (medium) shield extenders. If you run out of powergrid to fit more extenders and still have some midslots left, look at shield resistance modules as these will incresae your effective hitpoints (higher resists mean the attacker(s) have to do more raw damage to get through them).
Mithos Victus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:41:00 - [22] Edited by: Mithos Victus on 15/01/2009 14:43:49 As a scout, I use a Blockade Runner all the time. I can tell you without a doubt that a cloaked Blockade Runner is your best bet if and only if you are aware that station docking still leaves you vulnerable. My advice is to train to Covert Ops so you can use a scout ship and go practice, jump all over the place, get yourself into a fix and learn how to get out. Skills you will want for a Blockade Runner: Cloaking (obviously) Covert Ops (not so obvious, but training in a ship that costs as little as 30mil to fly sure beats training in one that costs +80mil to fly) Interceptor skills (not so obvious) Warp Drive operation (not so obvious) Things you will need to learn: - How to engage your cloak before the gate cloak breaks after you initiate an action - How to engage your cloak and MWD before the gate cloak breaks after you initiate an action - How to make a slingshot bookmark out of a station for instant warp after undocking - How to make a safespot - How to escape a warp bubble - Warp bubble mechanics and warping to a grid that has a bubble (not so obvious) - How to use the directional scanner - How to create an offgrid bookmark (not so obvious) - How to read and gauge intel on the starmap - How to escape in your pod 100% of the time if your ship is destroyed (in low only, less so in null ofc) - How to expand your cargo hold with containers when need be - How to fit for either alignment or cargo hold - How to gauge lag time from system to system as you jump through to the grid, so you know how to time your cloak activation for maximum security (extremely nuanced and difficult, but possible if you have a keen sense of timing) Uhm... I guess that's it for now, I'm certain others can think of stuff I do not know or cannot remember at this time. _______________________________________________ [...a lion lurking in the plain]
Mithos Victus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:00:00 - [23] Last random advice: Find yourself some friends, heck if you live anywhere near Amarr space, just contact me directly. Go out on a roaming gang even if just to observe, and watch as they try to catch a cloaker in low security. It will give you a better appreciation for what it's like from the other end. You're welcome as a neutral to come out in Providence (NRDS space) and see this for yourself if you have contacts who will let you zip around with their gang to observe them in action while they try to catch red cloakers. I know I know, I code for a living so I type faster than I talk >.< _______________________________________________ [...a lion lurking in the plain]
Mithos Victus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Mithos Victus Last random advice: Find yourself some friends, heck if you live anywhere near Amarr space, just contact me directly. Go out on a roaming gang even if just to observe, and watch as they try to catch a cloaker in low security. It will give you a better appreciation for what it's like from the other end. You're welcome as a neutral to come out in Providence (NRDS space) and see this for yourself if you have contacts who will let you zip around with their gang to observe them in action while they try to catch red cloakers. Oh also, not all collidables like stations and gates will break your cloak when you warp to 0m, so if you are being pursued by reds and you warp to 0m of a gate, sometimes you can play head games with them if the cloak does not break, they will know you warped to the gate, but they won't see you and will think you warped to 100km cloaked and then warped to a safe, then when they warp away from the gate, you jump through and no one is the wiser. I know I know, I code for a living so I type faster than I talk >.< _______________________________________________ [...a lion lurking in the plain]


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