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[Idea] Cloak Finder Probe

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DarkRavin	Posted - 2009.01.09 10:30:00 - [1] Edited by: DarkRavin on 09/01/2009 10:31:05 Edited by: DarkRavin on 09/01/2009 10:30:56 Alright I know there is a debate about how cloaked players are too hard to find and I know alot a people are against the gerenal ideas on how to balance it. But still I'll put my idea up for thought. My idea, Anti - stealth probe. Details: The probe will be fired from a standard Recon Launcher. Its max scan range would be 150km. It will scan for any cloaked ship in a 150 km area, meaning you have to know the general area of the cloaker. The probe will not decloak the cloaked ship but rather put a marker on him, for you and your fleet to see (much like a target broadcast marker). Meaning you still have to run out there and touch him. The probe needs to take only about 15 secs or less to scan area, because lets face it, if he sees probe he won't hang around. An the probe needs only to last around 30 secs. That would give you a 15 sec window for a inty to reach him, or for him to get away. So what do ya'll think of my idea.
Hercules Soban Captain Soban Fleet	Posted - 2009.01.09 10:36:00 - [2] NO way man! it is so unfair. that is why cloak was added in the game! to give the player a boost over the others and avoid battle or whatever that player has in mind! plus the cloaking device makes it invisible not only in the ''eye'' but also in the overview! That way all signals that your ship bursts so that you will have all this in the overview can't ''see'' the cloaked ship! I think that all these players who propose this idea, have lost a few kills since those players simply cloaked and fled, and you were blaspheming gods and demons and the name of this player! This and i don't mean youpersonally the whole ''cloak finder'' idea is far the worst there is!
SpawnSupreme	Posted - 2009.01.09 11:37:00 - [3] no no no leave cloakers alone, thier easy enough to catch you cant make it impossible for cloakers
David Grogan Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2009.01.09 12:04:00 - [4] defo do not nerf cloaking.........i finally trained that skill :P
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 03:13:00 - [5] Originally by: Hercules Soban NO way man! it is so unfair. that is why cloak was added in the game! to give the player a boost over the others and avoid battle or whatever that player has in mind! plus the cloaking device makes it invisible not only in the ''eye'' but also in the overview! That way all signals that your ship bursts so that you will have all this in the overview can't ''see'' the cloaked ship! I think that all these players who propose this idea, have lost a few kills since those players simply cloaked and fled, and you were blaspheming gods and demons and the name of this player! This and i don't mean youpersonally the whole ''cloak finder'' idea is far the worst there is! Okay, I don't see how this would be unfair. It would only balance out the cloaking based on these reasons: 1. The time it would take to scan, (15 seconds) is plenty of time to align and get ready to jump. 2. The probe doesn't decloak you, someone still has to touch you. 3. It will only broadcast you to the player who scanned, or to his/her fleet if they in one. 4. Its short range, means falcons and what not will not be effected. 5. Would mean someone would have to equip a recon launcher. Means the loss of a high slot, and maybe a mid or a low, to meet cpu of launcher. Benefits: 1. Would be able to have chance of finding a cloaked player camping a gate. 2. Would have a chance to find wts or reds hidding in allied space. 3. Would make people feel better about wasting time and isk trying to find a cloaked player. Okay I stated my reason. Cloaking would not be completly nerferd. It would simple means you can't go afk on a gate with it in hostal space anymore. You could even make the probes only usable in .4 and down since in high sec there is a greater chance of hitting gate traffic, and someone decloaking you. An no im not a person that has lost a kill to someone cloaking. However, I am a person that is sick of hunting people in low sec areas that I patrol. Just to have them cloak and hide for the rest of the day. I simple want some way to have a counter to cloak. In eve there are counters to just about everything you can think of, expect of cloak. An don't tell me the counter is getting within 2k of the ship. Because lets face it, the time it takes to reach where you saw him cloak, hes no longer there.
Sedious Bloke	Posted - 2009.01.10 04:08:00 - [6] Um stealth bombers suck even worse than the missiles they use and unplug your modem for the good of mankind? you ever notice how no matter how many of these brain damaged threads come up everyday they only get a page or two and most of that is flaming? Hmm wonder why that is.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 05:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Sedious Bloke Edited by: Sedious Bloke on 10/01/2009 04:33:46 Edited by: Sedious Bloke on 10/01/2009 04:33:25 Um stealth bombers suck even worse than the missiles they use and unplug your modem for the good of mankind? you ever notice how no matter how many of these brain damaged threads come up everyday they only get a page or two and most of that is flaming? Hmm wonder why that is. Well im sorry if you enjoy going afk cloaked, or to go jack off. Its not like every ship will have a launcher on it, loaded with a probe. SB will still work fine if they make it .4 and less anyways. Even in low sec, if you fit a bomb to a sb you wont hang around long enough for scanner anyways.
WillageGirl Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers	Posted - 2009.01.10 05:58:00 - [8] Originally by: DarkRavin So what do ya'll think of my idea. It just screams "I wanna have a perfect buble camp!" -mentality. With this in place, not a single covertops scout would ever get through large buble at a gate while it's defended.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 06:05:00 - [9] Originally by: WillageGirl Originally by: DarkRavin So what do ya'll think of my idea. It just screams "I wanna have a perfect buble camp!" -mentality. With this in place, not a single covertops scout would ever get through large buble at a gate while it's defended. Don't believe so, I have seen plenty of Covertops ships escape bubbles with in 10 secs, simply because they can travel around 700 m/s or fast while cloaked. You just can't sit around if you see them drop a probe.
WillageGirl Advanced Tactics and Maneuvers	Posted - 2009.01.10 06:35:00 - [10] Edited by: WillageGirl on 10/01/2009 06:37:44 Originally by: DarkRavin Originally by: WillageGirl Originally by: DarkRavin So what do ya'll think of my idea. It just screams "I wanna have a perfect buble camp!" -mentality. With this in place, not a single covertops scout would ever get through large buble at a gate while it's defended. Don't believe so, I have seen plenty of Covertops ships escape bubbles with in 10 secs, simply because they can travel around 700 m/s or fast while cloaked. You just can't sit around if you see them drop a probe. 1st. If you have actually seen a CovertOp warp away from a buble camp in 10 secs., theres something terribly wrong with the camp since the ship is uncloaked and not scrambled. Kinda opposite of defended gate. 2nd. Theres only one CovertOp in game that can reach 700m/s cloaked using normal equipment, and even that requires rigs and some heavy investments in implants. (read, 200...300 mil CovertOp fits) 3rd. Even with 700m/s velocity, a CovertOp has no time to maneuver its way out of the buble, which it inevitably has to do if the gate is actually defended. You might consider thinking about your replies for few minutes before you post them, since you clearly havent put much though into this whole idea, nor do you have even a basic understanding about the wery thing you are talking about. Go back to your cave, take a deep breath and do your research before typing a clever comebacks.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 07:09:00 - [11] Edited by: DarkRavin on 10/01/2009 07:10:27 Originally by: WillageGirl Edited by: WillageGirl on 10/01/2009 06:37:44 Originally by: DarkRavin Originally by: WillageGirl Originally by: DarkRavin So what do ya'll think of my idea. It just screams "I wanna have a perfect buble camp!" -mentality. With this in place, not a single covertops scout would ever get through large buble at a gate while it's defended. Don't believe so, I have seen plenty of Covertops ships escape bubbles with in 10 secs, simply because they can travel around 700 m/s or fast while cloaked. You just can't sit around if you see them drop a probe. 1st. If you have actually seen a CovertOp warp away from a buble camp in 10 secs., theres something terribly wrong with the camp since the ship is uncloaked and not scrambled. Kinda opposite of defended gate. 2nd. Theres only one CovertOp in game that can reach 700m/s cloaked using normal equipment, and even that requires rigs and some heavy investments in implants. (read, 200...300 mil CovertOp fits) 3rd. Even with 700m/s velocity, a CovertOp has no time to maneuver its way out of the buble, which it inevitably has to do if the gate is actually defended. You might consider thinking about your replies for few minutes before you post them, since you clearly havent put much though into this whole idea, nor do you have even a basic understanding about the wery thing you are talking about. Go back to your cave, take a deep breath and do your research before typing a clever comebacks. I don't think you have the right to judge me. This is posted as a idea to be discussed and to be improved. An yes the gate camp was weak that day. Only had a few medium and 1 t2 large bubble up around gate. The cruisers couldn't lock him fast enough so he cloaked and got away in 10 secs. I may not know what it takes to build a fast Covertops ship. I only report on what I have seen. An I seen quite a few get thru camps, simple because no inty is around. This idea is ment to bring a small chance to find a cloaked ship, not for ya'll to whine on how over powered that would be. An I swear this thread is starting to sound like the speed nerf all over again. I simple want clear statments. On what do you think, and how to improve on it. Not a flaming and whinning in the thread. _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 10:59:00 - [12] bump for the morning _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2009.01.10 13:26:00 - [13] Bumping isn't allowed on F&I threads. You posted an idea that got some serious discussion going yet you're mad because no one supports it. Sorry, that's how it goes in F&I. This idea is a one-sided idea that helps only the defenders. If you can't understand how this idea is overpowerful based on the replies already then there isn't much we can do to persuade you. Have fun and keep the ideas coming. ------------------------------------
Shea Klant	Posted - 2009.01.10 16:15:00 - [14] I'm all for a cloak probe, as long as there is a ECM jammer probe that makes all scan attempt highly inacurate. Until they put some real observability mechanics in the game, currently you are either 100% visibile or 100% invisible, there should be no changes that would nerf cloaks in any way.
Trajan Bismaul	Posted - 2009.01.10 17:37:00 - [15] I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but what about some kind of "ping" that can be fired once every x minutes that reveals whether or not a cloaked ship is in the area, accurate to say 100km? I don't think cloaking should be easily countered, but if it say took 3 ships all fitting a similar module (as in all 3 ships in the gang/fleet must have the module for it to work) to form a cloak hunter-killer group, that would make some sense, like how destroyers teamed against subs in WW2. Of course, there would be too much "interference" to pick up cloaked ships near gates. The point is to make this "cat and mouse" rather than effectively nerfing cloaks into uselessness. This needs to be very carefully balanced or an entire skillset is ruined.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.10 18:52:00 - [16] Originally by: NightF0x Bumping isn't allowed on F&I threads. You posted an idea that got some serious discussion going yet you're mad because no one supports it. Sorry, that's how it goes in F&I. This idea is a one-sided idea that helps only the defenders. If you can't understand how this idea is overpowerful based on the replies already then there isn't much we can do to persuade you. Have fun and keep the ideas coming. Will again, theres not much I can say to try in counter cloaking, without someone screaming over powered. I mean hell I could say make the scan time 180 seconds. Thats the time it would take to cross a large t2 warp bubble, the full 80km traveling at 450 m/s. An I bet that would still get called over powered. I guess I'll just have to wait for CCP to release a nerf like did will the speed patch. _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2009.01.11 00:08:00 - [17] Originally by: DarkRavin Originally by: NightF0x Bumping isn't allowed on F&I threads. You posted an idea that got some serious discussion going yet you're mad because no one supports it. Sorry, that's how it goes in F&I. This idea is a one-sided idea that helps only the defenders. If you can't understand how this idea is overpowerful based on the replies already then there isn't much we can do to persuade you. Have fun and keep the ideas coming. Will again, theres not much I can say to try in counter cloaking, without someone screaming over powered. I mean hell I could say make the scan time 180 seconds. Thats the time it would take to cross a large t2 warp bubble, the full 80km traveling at 450 m/s. An I bet that would still get called over powered. I guess I'll just have to wait for CCP to release a nerf like did will the speed patch. Have you flown a covert ops through null-sec while on an intel gathering mission and came across a gate camp? Just curious
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 03:04:00 - [18] Edited by: DarkRavin on 11/01/2009 03:05:56 Originally by: NightF0x Have you flown a covert ops through null-sec while on an intel gathering mission and came across a gate camp? Just curious To be honest no. Im only the one order to hold the gates, and patrol the systems. I base what I have seen mainly on the M-o gate in tribute. Which is normally the camping bubbled gate. An yes, I do realize that the probes would be probably the lamest thing in the world to deal with if your in a cloaked ship of any type, and its probably not the best solution out there to deal with the problem. More or less I have thought about this idea all day, came to the conclusion, yes this would help to deal with cloakers, but again, your be right. The scan times would kill the Black ops and probably the crusiers as well, since I only based times of the frigate class ships. So maybe probes arn't best way to deal with problem yet. But atlas, I still believe there needs to be a way to help trap a cloaked ship, maybe not so much as find. Hehe, maybe add proximity mines to eve :) _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
Doorsdown Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 04:53:00 - [19] i can't see a reason not to have a way of finding cloaks. A cloak can't be perfect, it shouldn't be easy by any means. It can be played with. possible modification 50km lets you scan 360 degree radius ... 100km lets you scan 30 degree radius
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 08:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Doorsdown i can't see a reason not to have a way of finding cloaks. A cloak can't be perfect, it shouldn't be easy by any means. It can be played with. possible modification 50km lets you scan 360 degree radius ... 100km lets you scan 30 degree radius Thanks for the idea Doors never though of trying that. Will add that idea to mine
Farseer Zellrenech	Posted - 2009.01.11 09:53:00 - [21] wow this is a big hell nah! so many people want so many probes to do so many things and the truth is the more attack you make the more defences there must be to defend. what this does is reduce the dps of ships because you lose a gun for a probe launcher or worse yet the poor guy who wants to cloak cant fit any offence because he need to drop anti cloaker probe he need to drop who knows what else and the like. this will basicly more pew pew out of pvp and make more ew ew combat. please man stop responding here for you will face overwhelming odds to rebuke this idea. my ceo created an idea for deployable alarms it just like a trip wire if you were to cary a few of them you would be able to tiangulate thier general facinity because in the AOE of the alarm any movement in the aoe will pop the alarm and if you keep droping these alarms and the ships is still near you are warm if your alarm survives you are cold. these alarms can be use for nuber of ideas like defending an acceration gate so you know when you get an intruder. and there was something like 3 or for alarms that vary in AOE the large would cover a whole ateroid belt the medium would cover an star gate and the small just covers something like acceration gate. if you wanted to locate a covert ops droping alarms you may wanna drop a small if he does not pop it try a large if it is not triped then he obvoiusly warp off immedialy but if it does pop you can continue search. these alarms are silent but maby arora the ship computer may verbaly warn you and it was suggested something becomes blinky.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 11:26:00 - [22] Like I stated before im simply trying to come up with a decent way to help balance out the hunt between, the cloaker and the search party. Now truthfully, I do support another method of trying to balance cloaking units. Basically timers would be added to a cloaking unit, that would show heat level, and make the unit shut off do to over uses. I would probably come up with a system, based on ship sizes would determine how long the thing could run. But since I havn't came up with a decent way to do it. I have yet to post a topic on it _______________________________________________ Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them.
Pellit1 Caldari Bushwhackers Rough Necks	Posted - 2009.01.11 16:22:00 - [23] Originally by: DarkRavin Originally by: WillageGirl Originally by: DarkRavin So what do ya'll think of my idea. It just screams "I wanna have a perfect buble camp!" -mentality. With this in place, not a single covertops scout would ever get through large buble at a gate while it's defended. Don't believe so, I have seen plenty of Covertops ships escape bubbles with in 10 secs, simply because they can travel around 700 m/s or fast while cloaked. You just can't sit around if you see them drop a probe. 700m/s whilst cloaked? No. I have pretty decent speed navigation skills and with two overdrive injectors, my Buzzard goes 452m/s, which whilst it's quick, it's not as quick as an interceptor which can actually decloak a covops ship if the pilot knows what He's doing. I think it's a bad idea - it'll totally nerf the element of surprise which is what the covops is for. You'd never be able to bust a deadspace mission again.
Adaris Gallente E X I U S	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:34:00 - [24] It would be interesting if the probe where to broadcast that there COULD be a EM Distortion within X of the probe. False Positives. That would make it fairer.
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.16 02:30:00 - [25] Edited by: DarkRavin on 16/01/2009 02:30:52 Originally by: Adaris It would be interesting if the probe where to broadcast that there COULD be a EM Distortion within X of the probe. False Positives. That would make it fairer. Do you mean that it will give the general direction and range they are at? Or a bunch of locations they maybe at?
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.01.16 17:08:00 - [26] Yay! It's that time again! See... I take a game break for a few months, and come back to see that all the same topics are still being discussed. To reiterate, for those who may choose not to look over the linked thread, or any of the other "Anti-Cloak" threads that abound... Rather than a Probe, which Cloaks are the polar opposite of... make an Astrometric module that scans the local grid. Meaning that you can't tell if "someone" is cloaked "somewhere". But you can tell if they're within Overview range. However, the scanner wouldn't highlight them. It would only tell you a range. Then you have to move, and rescan, to see if you're closer or further away. And you'd still have to bump them to reveal them to anyone else. Since it'd be an Astrometric sensor, the best hunters would be CovOps frigates... which I think is only fitting. Another change that has been mentioned whenever "Anti-Cloaking" is brought up... is how players can hide somewhere, cloak, and walk away from the computer all day. The simplest fix, is an AFK logout like most other games employ. There's no reason why anyone would need to be logged in, but inactive, all day long. Even given the pace of gameplay, if a player were completely inactive for more than an hour, they should be logged off. Before anyone asks... and in case you didn't read my linked post. "Inactive" means no chatting, no movement, no market activity. It means that your computer is on, but no one is home. And yes, I know that a simple macro could PM itself every 20min and reset the timer... but macros are illegal if you'll recall. So... rather than invent a system wide Probe, a local grid scanner could do the job. It allows players to play Hide and Seek, rather than an instant iWin button. Discuss.
thesonarnet Gallente 0ccam's Razor UNLeashed Legion	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:25:00 - [27] I like the idea and I also think that there needs to be done something to give us a way to kick the afk cloakers out of our space. But I see some problems with that idea. Imagine you're out for rattin and suddenly hostiles jumps into the system, you are in a pve ship with a normal cloak and you fly only 20m/s with it activated. Your idea with the scan time would erase the option to hide yourself away from attackers in non-covert ops ships. So I would like to see a mechanism to get afk cloaker while you still keep other possible ways of usage with the cloaks alive.
Exie Phantasmal Collective Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:45:00 - [28] I am not fond if probing out a ship that in no way can gank you... I mean ganked by a cov ops is an epic fail! Now recons I know can get some gank on... but oh well. Learn to deal with it. Now for the other ships that fit a cloak to wait for the hauler to gank, like a vagabond or some other combat ship... and they where to jump into a camp, they are not hard to de-cloak. Now I hate AFK cloakers as much as the next guy, but the only thing I could see this being useful for is if your not defending your space, and you want to find the guy, which this does not do, nor should it. Also if you want to kill a cov ops that is jumping around... it is really easy. Use a sling bubble and some smarties.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Excessive Force	Posted - 2009.01.17 04:21:00 - [29] Originally by: thesonarnet I like the idea and I also think that there needs to be done something to give us a way to kick the afk cloakers out of our space. ... So I would like to see a mechanism to get afk cloaker while you still keep other possible ways of usage with the cloaks alive. Which is where my two(2) ideas came in. Because "AFK Cloakers" is a misnomer. It's not that AFK Cloaking needs fixed. AFK needs fixed, and Cloaks need fixed. It just so happens that AFK Cloaking is the combination of two problems. 1) Implement a timer, just like every other MMO. Even if it's an hour long, since gameplay can be slower than most games. If a player is completely unresponsive, and totally uninvolved with their client for an hour... then d/c them. And if they use a macro to reset the timer, then spank them for using macros. 2) Make a very short ranged module that can sniff out Cloaks. Only displays distance, not even heading. So you either have to move about, rescanning to see if you're heading closer or further away. Or you can have several ships searching, comparing data, and "triangulating" the position. Then you use the regular bump mechanic to reveal them. This would mean that you don't instantly find the cloaked person. In fact, they can see you darting about trying to sniff them out, and they can move to avoid it. That is, if they are actually there. If they are AFK, then you'll eventually find them, bump them, and blow them out of your sky. Easy! --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST"
DarkRavin hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.17 07:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Originally by: thesonarnet I like the idea and I also think that there needs to be done something to give us a way to kick the afk cloakers out of our space. ... So I would like to see a mechanism to get afk cloaker while you still keep other possible ways of usage with the cloaks alive. Which is where my two(2) ideas came in. Because "AFK Cloakers" is a misnomer. It's not that AFK Cloaking needs fixed. AFK needs fixed, and Cloaks need fixed. It just so happens that AFK Cloaking is the combination of two problems. 1) Implement a timer, just like every other MMO. Even if it's an hour long, since gameplay can be slower than most games. If a player is completely unresponsive, and totally uninvolved with their client for an hour... then d/c them. And if they use a macro to reset the timer, then spank them for using macros. 2) Make a very short ranged module that can sniff out Cloaks. Only displays distance, not even heading. So you either have to move about, rescanning to see if you're heading closer or further away. Or you can have several ships searching, comparing data, and "triangulating" the position. Then you use the regular bump mechanic to reveal them. This would mean that you don't instantly find the cloaked person. In fact, they can see you darting about trying to sniff them out, and they can move to avoid it. That is, if they are actually there. If they are AFK, then you'll eventually find them, bump them, and blow them out of your sky. Easy! Ahaha ya much better Idea than my own The only change I would make its to the time idea. I would rather change it to each ship class has a cloak time that it can maintain, before the device needs to be reset. after that time is up. Proof cloak goes off. That way the just cant come back in click a new direction to stay in system all day. Though I do support a timer to kick them if they don't do anything within a resonable amout of time. Just got to find a way for the time not to kick auto piloted freighters making 100 jumps through empire

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