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ISK farmers and why you need to stop caring...

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Mostly Amazing Gallente Mostly Amazing Corp	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:00:00 - [1] They've been around for years and will be for many more. While it is nice to see CCP put such an effort into reducing the issue around ISK farmers, I think it's time you all come to terms with it: They won't go away. As long as people are willing to pay real money for in-game goods they will keep providing it. And it's near impossible to stop them because in the end the majority of our ISK farmers are real people sitting behind computers and you just can't create a fail safe system to keep them from making ISK or advertising. You try to ban certain words/links/sentences, they will just rephrase, use different characters or concealed URLs. You can put moderators in channels, theyll just keep making new characters. There are games where every player can rightclick->report people in chat and there will be a team of mods sitting there banning these people and still they keep coming. You can move ice belts to low sec, put limits on cloaking devices, change logoff aggro rules: it won't help. In the end us normal players are also looking to make ISK just as they are, with 1 difference: they get paid to do it, while we have to pay. So the more you try and prohibit making loads of ISK, you will only hurt the playerbase. Morale of the story: stop caring, start enjoying the game and just don't buy ISK for real money. They'll never go away :) -------------- I R Not Completely Amazing, But I R Mostly Amazing
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:04:00 - [2] Fail logic is fail. The impossibility of completely eradicating crime is not an argument for ceasing to combat it.
ingenting 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Mostly Amazing nice to see CCP put such an effort into reducing the issue around ISK farmers proof? _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu BAAOOM... Told you, newb."
Arakn1s Amarr Quaver Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Malcanis The impossibility of completely eradicating crime is not an argument for ceasing to combat it. Couldn't agree more
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:08:00 - [5] just cancel trial accounts or limit them to talk only in private channels or player corp channels and help.. Or create separate server for trial accounts.. ----- TCODA corporation is recruiting! TCODA is awesome!
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Malcanis Fail logic is fail. The impossibility of completely eradicating crime is not an argument for ceasing to combat it. But it doesn't mean you should make it top-priority either.
Debonair Dan	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:22:00 - [7] Edited by: Debonair Dan on 15/01/2009 14:22:32 Yes yes, we all know some 0.0 alliances have a vested interest in keeping isk farmers alive. You won't win the battle of public opinion. Isk sellers and farmers distort the economy and in their own way are a negative effect on the game, doing as they do, operate outside of the rules of the game. But you know, as long as CCP continue to target Isk sellers i'm happy about that.
Primnproper	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Malcanis Fail logic is fail. The impossibility of completely eradicating crime is not an argument for ceasing to combat it. No but it is an arguement for not overly inconviencing the average citizen in an attempt to catch yet another petty criminal.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:27:00 - [9] Edited by: Concorduck on 15/01/2009 14:27:46 Originally by: Debonair Dan Isk sellers and farmers distort the economy and in their own way are a negative effect on the game, doing as they do, operate outside of the rules of the game. until they actually transfer the money, all the stuff they do is fine and can be defined as "legal game mechanic" as long as they don't use macro (wich can't be proven, unless CCP starts implementing blizzard-like rootkits, in which case i'll be an happy panda forever), because it's not against EULA. so, they are "distorting" the market as much as you or any other player does, until they transfer the isk. FAKE EDIT: AHAHAHAHAHAH ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Primnproper Originally by: Malcanis Fail logic is fail. The impossibility of completely eradicating crime is not an argument for ceasing to combat it. No but it is an arguement for not overly inconviencing the average citizen in an attempt to catch yet another petty criminal. To what inconveniences do you refer?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Concorduck Originally by: Malcanis Fail logic is fail. The impossibility of completely eradicating crime is not an argument for ceasing to combat it. But it doesn't mean you should make it top-priority either. If CCP's campaign against ISK farmers and macroers has been their "top priority" then god help us. They've fairly consistently made things easier for both classes to operate over the last couple of years.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Malcanis If CCP's campaign against ISK farmers and macroers has been their "top priority" then god help us. They've fairly consistently made things easier for both classes to operate over the last couple of years. Oh, i never thought i would have to do this again... PROOF OR STFU ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Debonair Dan	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Concorduck Edited by: Concorduck on 15/01/2009 14:27:46 Originally by: Debonair Dan Isk sellers and farmers distort the economy and in their own way are a negative effect on the game, doing as they do, operate outside of the rules of the game. until they actually transfer the money, all the stuff they do is fine and can be defined as "legal game mechanic" as long as they don't use macro (wich can't be proven, unless CCP starts implementing blizzard-like rootkits, in which case i'll be an happy panda forever), because it's not against EULA. so, they are "distorting" the market as much as you or any other player does, until they transfer the isk. FAKE EDIT: AHAHAHAHAHAH my my, aren't you dumb, of course they transfer the isk or the minerals. that is the entire point.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Debonair Dan Originally by: Concorduck Edited by: Concorduck on 15/01/2009 14:27:46 Originally by: Debonair Dan Isk sellers and farmers distort the economy and in their own way are a negative effect on the game, doing as they do, operate outside of the rules of the game. until they actually transfer the money, all the stuff they do is fine and can be defined as "legal game mechanic" as long as they don't use macro (wich can't be proven, unless CCP starts implementing blizzard-like rootkits, in which case i'll be an happy panda forever), because it's not against EULA. so, they are "distorting" the market as much as you or any other player does, until they transfer the isk. FAKE EDIT: AHAHAHAHAHAH my my, aren't you dumb, of course they transfer the isk or the minerals. that is the entire point. but until they transfer money/mineral, you can't say they are against EULA
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:42:00 - [15] Edited by: Malcanis on 15/01/2009 14:43:34 Originally by: Concorduck Originally by: Malcanis If CCP's campaign against ISK farmers and macroers has been their "top priority" then god help us. They've fairly consistently made things easier for both classes to operate over the last couple of years. Oh, i never thought i would have to do this again... PROOF OR STFU More or less in chronological order: Concord buff Change of sov mechanics requiring huge numbers of POS = vast demand for ice products. Concord buff war dec nerf LP store mission buff Removing trit price caps Concord buff Agility buff Life has been consistently made easier for farmers. The only thing that could be said to have made things more difficult for them is the missile nerf. And really, that's not exactly difficult to work around; most mission farmers are uising CNRs; they can afford a PWNAGE.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Concorduck Originally by: Malcanis If CCP's campaign against ISK farmers and macroers has been their "top priority" then god help us. They've fairly consistently made things easier for both classes to operate over the last couple of years. Oh, i never thought i would have to do this again... PROOF OR STFU Concord buff. Sec status hit increase. Increased difficulty of raising sec status. Creation of the orca Reworking certain lvl 4s to make it easier to semi-afk them (specifically the extravaganza missions) These are the changes I can think of off the top of my head, there are probably more. Really anyone who's been playing more then a few months should know what CCP has done to make macromining (and to a lesser extent mission running) easier for bot users and isk farmers alike, so asking someone to PROOF OR STFU just makes you look ignorant.
Yuri VanKaer	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:47:00 - [17] null Originally by: Mostly Amazing They won't go away. As long as people are willing to pay real money for in-game goods they will keep providing it. Morale of the story: stop caring, start enjoying the game and just don't buy ISK for real money. They'll never go away :) Can you please stop with the intelligent, reasonable logic crap? There is no place in EVE for it... Seriously though, I agree 100%. If there wasn't a market, they wouldn't be bothering. I'd much rather see CCP spend all of it's anti-RMT resources hunting down and prosecuting purchasers of ISK, as opposed to the farmers. It'd do a lot more good...and would help them $$$wise too. Who knows, might even help the subscriber numbers in the longrun too, once word got out of how tough they are on cheaters.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: Concorduck Originally by: Malcanis If CCP's campaign against ISK farmers and macroers has been their "top priority" then god help us. They've fairly consistently made things easier for both classes to operate over the last couple of years. Oh, i never thought i would have to do this again... PROOF OR STFU Concord buff. you saw it coming after jihadswarm, it was against goons, not with macroers Sec status hit increase. see previous one Increased difficulty of raising sec status. see previous one Creation of the orca you see, orcas are also used to make flashy red get a ship and suicide Reworking certain lvl 4s to make it easier to semi-afk them (specifically the extravaganza missions) missile nerf These are the changes I can think of off the top of my head, there are probably more. Really anyone who's been playing more then a few months should know what CCP has done to make macromining (and to a lesser extent mission running) easier for bot users and isk farmers alike, so asking someone to PROOF OR STFU just makes you look ignorant. The day CCP takes a stand in favor of macroers with the instat-concordokking anywhere in empire, i'll start rambling with you. until then, please rethink what you think of the current system, because i don't see any change directed to isk-farmer/macros to increase their revenue/making it easier for them SPECIFICALLY. if you talk about carebears buff, on the other hand, i'll agree with you. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Concorduck The day CCP takes a stand in favor of macroers with the instat-concordokking anywhere in empire, i'll start rambling with you. until then, please rethink what you think of the current system, because i don't see any change directed to isk-farmer/macros to increase their revenue/making it easier for them SPECIFICALLY. if you talk about carebears buff, on the other hand, i'll agree with you. I never said that these changes were put in place SPECIFICALLY for benefit farmers/macroers. I just said that the changes made have consistently benefitted them. In fact I have repeatedly made the point that every time some hi-sec dweller asks for the game to be made easier and safer, he is in effect reducing his comparative advantage over a macro-script.

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