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Drake killer?! 'A million little pieces'

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Gideon Eisenhorn	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:36:00 - [1] just lost my t2 tanked drake to this mission... what I dont understand is I did it fine earlier with out dropping anywhere near 50% tank, I approached the mission the same and I lose the ship?! What the hell?!
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:50:00 - [2] You probably did something different this time. The first thing to check is whether you had the right hardeners on and were using the right ammo. Second, maybe you were killing too slowly and got swamped by the pile of spawns. First thing though is check your killmail and make sure you were fitted like you think you were.
Gideon Eisenhorn	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:57:00 - [3] 2009.01.16 00:29:00 Victim: Inquisitor Cerberuso Corp: Ministry of War Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Drake System: Nahyeen Security: 0.8 Damage Taken: 68332 Involved parties: Name: Federation Praeco / Gallente Federation (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 68332 Destroyed items: Invulnerability Field II Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 8 Shield Power Relay II 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Qty: 6 Ballistic Control System II Shield Recharger II, Qty: 2 Large Shield Extender II, Qty: 2 Core Defence Field Purger I, Qty: 3 Dropped items: Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 9409 (Cargo) Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 6 Shield Power Relay II, Qty: 2 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I Small Tractor Beam I Shield Recharger II that should provide insight into the fitting, drones we already destroyed 5x hobgoblins
Wayson Minmatar Trans Nebula Inc. FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.01.16 01:14:00 - [4] Try using actual hardeners. A single invulnerability field does not qualify. ___ Originally by: Ranger 1 It finally happened, even lag has been nerfed.
Hamarkon Isloan Setenta Corp	Posted - 2009.01.16 01:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Hamarkon Isloan on 16/01/2009 01:36:30 My mission Drake has the following mids/lows, my highs are the same as yours: Mids 2 x LSE II, 2 x Invul SH II, 1 x Ballistic Deflection II, 1 x Heat Dissipation II Lows: 3 x Ballistic Control System II, Shield Power Relay II Comparing your set-up to mine in EFT I could tank 450 vs 380 DPS against a KN/TH using NPC. Your not resisting enough of the incomming damage to even keep up with your high recharge rate. As far as the mission you got killed in. The new spawns probably targeted your drones. Once your drones were gone, killing the frigs would take more time. Since this is a timed spawn mission, you fell behind in killing off the spawns and got overwhelmed. What makes this a particularly damgerous mission is Gallente BCs use blasters and their damage jumps when they get under about 6km. I usually fly away from the encounter to keep the damage down.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2009.01.16 01:30:00 - [6] It killed itself out of pity. You were using three shield rechargers and next to no hardening. Drop a level in missions until you can figure out how to fit a passive tank.
Terminus Vindictus	Posted - 2009.01.16 02:30:00 - [7] Agreed with all above. With the hundreds of passive Drake tank setups around there's really no excuse for fitting yours the way you did. No wonder you lost it. Lesson learned - get another one and start over with a better setup.
Wulf Warsteinhammer	Posted - 2009.01.16 05:34:00 - [8] HA HA HA What do you expect flying a LAME DUCK like that. Sometimes the learning curve can be a painful one
Loc Maythan Gallente AlfaCorp	Posted - 2009.01.16 09:28:00 - [9] I find this post interesting as last night I mysteriously lost my mission Domi of two years last night, to a level 4 that I have done 50 times before. I was doing Worlds Collide. I had cleared the Serpentis room and rescued the crew, and had started on the Gurista room. My tank - 4 hardener/2 repper/1 EANM setup - had been running happily, and could handle twice the damage it was being asked to take. Suddenly I noticed a lot of red, and looked down to find I was just entering structure. Another check showed that none of my tank modules were now running - modules which had been running through 2 rooms already, and would permarun indefinitely. Unfortunately, I was could not turn them on fast enough to save the ship. Most of the stuff survived, but a few rather expensive items were lost. Filed a petition, so we'll see what happens ;-) Loc.
Gaia Thorn Capital Produce	Posted - 2009.01.16 10:52:00 - [10] Thats a feature to go green. u know save the enviroment, turn off your hardners save a forest.

Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.01.16 11:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Loc Maythan Another check showed that none of my tank modules were now running - modules which had been running through 2 rooms already, and would permarun indefinitely. Unfortunately, I was could not turn them on fast enough to save the ship. Heard this more often lately. I switched to Amarr Navy Energized hardeners (passive) for the time being.
Egbert Emo	Posted - 2009.01.16 12:17:00 - [12] Quite interesting tbh, On Saturday I lost a well setup Golem inside a mission I have done 100's of times. I have checked and checked and there was nothing to explain the lost, which was painful due to the setup. Also that afternoon a corp mate lost a CNR in a mission that with his setup he should not of. I was not going to petition the event, firstly due to knowing I shouldn't and wasn't flying someting I can't afford to replace and secondly because I am sure that the logs will show nothing! but heck, gunna give it a try now, incase there's some other forces afoot!
Suboran Gallente Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.01.16 12:36:00 - [13] you didnt warp out ??
Kaya Divine Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.16 13:56:00 - [14] Edited by: Kaya Divine on 16/01/2009 13:55:52 nods well I was sure that I hallucinate when I noticed that same missions which couldn't take my shields under 75% now I tank on 55-65% I consulted moralists to learn how to appear philosophers to find out what to think and novelists to see what I could get away with and in the end it all came down to one principle:win or die.
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:23:00 - [15] Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 16/01/2009 14:23:27 A Million Little Pieces has a lot of damage in it, especially once the reinforcements arrive. The last time I ran it, I had this setup: Highs: 7x 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile 1x Drone Link Augmentor Mediums: 2x Large Shield Extender II 2x Ditrigonic Thermal Barrier Crystallization I 2x Non-Inertial Ballistic Screen Augmentation I Lows: 3x Ballistic Control System II 1x Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay Rigs: 3x Core Defense Field Purger I I didn't bother to shoot the comm relay, as I have never been able to blow it up before the first of the reinforcements arrive. What I did was move out of range of the sentry turrets and start shooting at the outpost. I stayed moving to avoid being swarmed by the blaster-equipped Gallente ships. I never got below 50% shields.
Lrrp Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.16 14:57:00 - [16] While I have not experienced mid mods turning off, I have noticed a number of times in the last couple of weeks that if I pre-charge my weapons, then target a ship, the pre-charged weapons turn off. Never happened before.
Alichooter	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:54:00 - [17] my fitting for this mission (no joke) [Harpy, New Setup 1 copy 2] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN Afterburner II Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Cap Recharger II Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S [empty high slot] Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I speedtanks stageaggro and does the job in time
Sweeper23	Posted - 2009.01.16 15:59:00 - [18] Not sure if its related but I have noticed my tractor beam has been turning off while pulling in wrecks. Didnt think much of it until I read this...
Bootius McGee	Posted - 2009.01.16 16:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Gideon Eisenhorn Name: Federation Praeco / Gallente Federation (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 68332 You lost your ship because Gallente is ALWAYS greater than Caldari. Grin! Next time, try flying an Ishtar. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kyt Thrace	Posted - 2009.01.16 16:10:00 - [20] Could you put a AB II in mid instead of a shield recharger II, so you could get out of range faster and be able to use a little more of speed tanking on lvl 4 missions? Mid - 2-lg ext II, 2-active harderners II, 1-shield recharger II, & 1-AB II Low - 3-BCS II, 1-Shield power relay II Just thinking Any and all comments on this setup please, pros & cons

Srioghal moDhream	Posted - 2009.01.16 17:04:00 - [21] I love hearing about people petitioning to have a ship replaced that they lost in a mission because they were more than likely being lazy and forgot to do something. Way to clog up the petitions.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 18:22:00 - [22] two words. Aggro Management 2ó have been added to this thread.
Johann Callasan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:24:00 - [23] Edited by: Johann Callasan on 16/01/2009 19:26:42 Originally by: Gideon Eisenhorn 2009.01.16 00:29:00 Victim: Inquisitor Cerberuso Corp: Ministry of War Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Drake System: Nahyeen Security: 0.8 Damage Taken: 68332 Involved parties: Name: Federation Praeco / Gallente Federation (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 68332 Destroyed items: Invulnerability Field II Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 8 Shield Power Relay II 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Qty: 6 Ballistic Control System II Shield Recharger II, Qty: 2 Large Shield Extender II, Qty: 2 Core Defence Field Purger I, Qty: 3 Dropped items: Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 9409 (Cargo) Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 6 Shield Power Relay II, Qty: 2 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I Small Tractor Beam I Shield Recharger II that should provide insight into the fitting, drones we already destroyed 5x hobgoblins Well, some advice: 1) Don't run a LOLfit. Don't care if you'd run that mission before, that fitting is just terrible. All recharge with no buffer, real damage, OR resistances. On Inv Field II doesn't cut it as being "resistance". 2) With the timed spawns in that mission, doing damage is FAR more important than anything else. Your damage output with only one BCU would have been pitiful, and it would be VERY easy for you to get overwhelmed; especially without good drone management. 3) Having good resistances is important as well, as it is in ANY attrition mission. If you can't gank good enough, then tank it. Minimum would have been 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II, 1xHeat Dissipation Field II. 2-3 LSE IIs for the rest of the mids (AB optional, not recommended), 2xSPR IIs in the lows (2xBCI II to round 'em out), and three CDFP as rigs, OR 2x CDFP,1x Warhead Rigor. Choose one of the structures inthe mission and orbit it tight (5K or so) to keep your transversal changiung, and make you harder to hit to help offset the increased sig radius. THis is the only place a AB might help - if your orbit's tight enough, you can cause a lot of misses by adding speed to your tank. 4) Remember when setting up your tank: RESISTANCE TRUMPS REGEN. Again, RESISTANCE TRUMPS REGEN. Damage you resist is damage you don't take... up to where stacking penalties kick in, which is why having more than two full Active Hardeners on one resist is generally a Bhad Idea, given limited midslots. 5) Remember, having a Inv. Filed on your ship give you omni-resistance, at half-strength compared to a dedicated active hardener (Inv. Field 1 25% resists across the board, dedicated active module is 50% on one resist). Don't use Inv Fields unless you WANT the omni-resist (i.e. for PvP), or the rest of your tank is sufficient to the task at hand and you want to fill the slot. Those should help you a bit, and if you feel I'm condescending, well.... Think that LOLmail says enough about that :)
voetius Limited Liability Corp	Posted - 2009.01.16 22:26:00 - [24] poster above has good advice - my mission fit before I got T2 Heavy was high: 7 x HML Malkuth or named, whatever you can afford 1 x tractor for mission cans mids: 2 x LSE II 1 x Shield Recharger II 3 x T2 Active Hardeners low: 2 x Beta Reactor Control Shield Power Relay 2 x BCS II since then I've put 3 resistence rigs on it that I never used running level 3s. 5 x Hobgoblin II or Warrior II help on the frigs.
Vher Vixxen	Posted - 2009.01.16 22:42:00 - [25] Edited by: Vher Vixxen on 16/01/2009 22:44:02 It sounds as if many of you expect each mission to have the exact same results every time. Are not the enemies' chances of tracking you and doing damage based on percentages and random number generators within a given percentage range? Is this not the same when you do damage to the enemy? Why can't you just right this off as the bad guys were better and my efforts were not as good this time compared to previous times you did this mission (your percentage of hits/damage) as the other times. Isn't this just the law of percentages at work? If the game played exactly the same way every time, then where would the fun be? I assume that sometimes, the rats are just going to hit me harder than normal, and sometimes I will be more successful than normal. A good game design is when the AI varies, not when it is the same every instance (or mission in this case). Perhaps it is simple as that, right? I did not read carefully all the ship setup stuff and all that, but I think it is important to look at other issues other than just setups, like maybe, the odds, the percentages and the "luck" or bad luck of both you and the game's AI.
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.16 22:50:00 - [26] Originally by: Vher Vixxen If the game played exactly the same way every time, then where would the fun be? Welcome to the 'fun' world of missions. They DO go EXACTLY the same every time, and that is what makes them almost as boring as mining. That is also the reason that the word 'carebear' is used so frequently to refer to mission runners. They are taking NO risk since they know exactly how the mission will go, and have about a 0.0001% chance of actually dying. I just wish CCP would make missions a bit more interactive so you couldn't afk-solo-run them in a raven, and there would actually be surprises now and again.
Vher Vixxen	Posted - 2009.01.16 22:58:00 - [27] Karentaki, if that is the case, then the game design is flawed. I assumed the software was a bit more complex, giving offensive hits and defensive impacts some variance through a random number within a given range. If that is not the case, I wonder why, since it does not seem like a complicated programming issue or resource issue for the servers. If so, that is too bad for all of us. Most of us (especially new members) assume the AI is more robust than you described. Can anybody counter this point made by Karentaki?
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.16 23:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Vher Vixxen Can anybody counter this point made by Karentaki? No, because he's absolutely right. The only variation you'll se in missions are some of the ship names, the obvious randomness in the to-hit and damage rolls, and the loot and salvage you get at the end. There has been talk of upgrading the NPC AI to provide a bit more dynamism and challenge but until then… presidential addresses are less scripted and more random than EVE missions.
Guerrica	Posted - 2009.01.16 23:27:00 - [29] Eve missions are this MMO's version of grinding. Missions are designed to be predictable to a point. Hits are variable, but not to the extent you imagine. Yes you can have horrible bad luck and get 50 wrecking hits in a row, but 95% of the time this doesn't account for a large enough variance to compromise your ships defenses. I have a mission character, I don't find them boring at all. Running missions is like ... playing a game (weird huh). I do it so I have iskies to lose / invest into pvp encounters, which incidentally is why I subscribe. The pvp in this game (ship, economic, diplomatic, et al) is non-scripted and highly interactive. NPC smiting doesn't need to be.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Vher Vixxen Can anybody counter this point made by Karentaki? CCP set out to make a PvP game. PvE is something you do to pay for PvP. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.

Johann Callasan Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 00:42:00 - [31] Edited by: Johann Callasan on 17/01/2009 00:48:46 Originally by: Vher Vixxen Edited by: Vher Vixxen on 16/01/2009 22:44:02 It sounds as if many of you expect each mission to have the exact same results every time. Are not the enemies' chances of tracking you and doing damage based on percentages and random number generators within a given percentage range? Is this not the same when you do damage to the enemy? Why can't you just right this off as the bad guys were better and my efforts were not as good this time compared to previous times you did this mission (your percentage of hits/damage) as the other times. Isn't this just the law of percentages at work? If the game played exactly the same way every time, then where would the fun be? I assume that sometimes, the rats are just going to hit me harder than normal, and sometimes I will be more successful than normal. A good game design is when the AI varies, not when it is the same every instance (or mission in this case). Perhaps it is simple as that, right? I did not read carefully all the ship setup stuff and all that, but I think it is important to look at other issues other than just setups, like maybe, the odds, the percentages and the "luck" or bad luck of both you and the game's AI. No. That is where EvE is different than other games - you can know EXACTLY what you will face, what the damage percenntages are for ANY damage type in the mission, and can fit your ship to match EXACTLY what you will encounter. Matter of fact, here's the info for YOUR mission: EVE-Survival's "Million Little Pieces" MISSION REPORT Bookmark that site and USE IT - EvE doesn't have as much random numbers in it's maths as you seem to think. Otherwise eve-survival.org and similar sites wouldn't exist :) Just remember, before going on about "flawed game design" - EvE doesn't HAVE a focus. Missioning is where ISK is injected into the economy - other activities (manufacturing, PvP, industry) are the sinks that REMOVE it fromthe economy. As such, if missioning is made too hard, the economy gets less ISK injected into it... which crimps the rest. When the game was designed back in 2001, that was a real issue as the game needed jumpstarting. Nowadays there's enough ISK in circulation that missioning can be changed....were it not for the outcry that all the missionrunners woulde scream about once their missions got harder. Think about it....the ONLY other source of ISK in this game is NPC buy orders, EVERYTHING else is done by players, out of funds generated by missioning and selling to NPCs.
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2009.01.17 02:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Johann Callasan the ONLY other source of ISK Belt rat bounties? Insurance payouts?
Aceanuu	Posted - 2009.01.17 19:08:00 - [33] I am somewhat concerned... I recently almost lost a passive drake as well... but its because with 23% or so on my shields... I started taking armor damage, and taking it FAST. The only issue here is that I have tactical Shield Manipulation V, which dictates that no damage gets through my shields until they are all gone, however that was not the case, I jumped out with about 35% armor left and ~20% shield... concerning to say the least.. unless I'm totally offbase to how that skill works.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.17 23:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Aceanuu I am somewhat concerned... I recently almost lost a passive drake as well... but its because with 23% or so on my shields... I started taking armor damage, and taking it FAST. The only issue here is that I have tactical Shield Manipulation V, which dictates that no damage gets through my shields until they are all gone, however that was not the case, I jumped out with about 35% armor left and ~20% shield... concerning to say the least.. unless I'm totally offbase to how that skill works. That looks like the dreaded bug of the Tactical Shield Manipulation is back ... it was corrected, a couple of extensions ago, but what you described is exactly what happenned before the correction : having that skill at 5 destroyed the skill ... The weird thing is, I've just done a mission where I let my shield go down to roughly 15% before starting my Booster (was reading these boards ) and I didn't take armor damage ... BTW, taking armor damage really fast on a shield-tanked ship is quite logical, your Armor resistances are at the basic level (maybe a bit higher if you fit a Damage Control), nowhere near the 80+% needed to tank most missions ...
Erimenes	Posted - 2009.01.18 00:23:00 - [35] Edited by: Erimenes on 18/01/2009 00:25:56 Originally by: Srioghal moDhream I love hearing about people petitioning to have a ship replaced that they lost in a mission because they were more than likely being lazy and forgot to do something. Way to clog up the petitions. I wasn't going to update this, but since you were such a patient, considerate person, I thought I would ;-) CCP's reply is that after an investigation, there had been a problem, and the ship and equipment have now been replaced. Maybe next time you can wait until all the facts are known before pigeon-holing ;-) Loc. Edit: I hate the way the forum changes your default char sometimes. This should have been posted by Loc Maythan :-(
Zaldoza Caldari EVEfan.dk	Posted - 2009.01.18 10:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Erimenes Edited by: Erimenes on 18/01/2009 00:25:56 Originally by: Srioghal moDhream I love hearing about people petitioning to have a ship replaced that they lost in a mission because they were more than likely being lazy and forgot to do something. Way to clog up the petitions. I wasn't going to update this, but since you were such a patient, considerate person, I thought I would ;-) CCP's reply is that after an investigation, there had been a problem, and the ship and equipment have now been replaced. Maybe next time you can wait until all the facts are known before pigeon-holing ;-) Loc. Edit: I hate the way the forum changes your default char sometimes. This should have been posted by Loc Maythan :-( Pwnd


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