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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 10:40:00 -
[1]
About 50% of all updates since castor have been changes in the agent system which is probably the only part of EVE that is in no way PvP. Most players that don't PvP are running missions and that part of the game is getting a lot of attention. I've been running missions since the start and the system is nothing like what it was at first.
PvP is getting a lot of attention these days but I think it was needed and most of the improvements are really great and make the game a lot better so I don't think they are in any way wrong for focusing on this.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 10:40:00 -
[2]
About 50% of all updates since castor have been changes in the agent system which is probably the only part of EVE that is in no way PvP. Most players that don't PvP are running missions and that part of the game is getting a lot of attention. I've been running missions since the start and the system is nothing like what it was at first.
PvP is getting a lot of attention these days but I think it was needed and most of the improvements are really great and make the game a lot better so I don't think they are in any way wrong for focusing on this.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 10:42:00 -
[3]
There have also been some big changes in NPC hunting recently. The devs aren't just focusing on PvP but it is an important part (probably the most important part) of the game and it is very complicated and the balance is fragile so it is only natural that it gets the most attention.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 10:42:00 -
[4]
There have also been some big changes in NPC hunting recently. The devs aren't just focusing on PvP but it is an important part (probably the most important part) of the game and it is very complicated and the balance is fragile so it is only natural that it gets the most attention.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 10:52:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Redan Chulipa
Yes, there's hardly ever a skill implemented that's not ship oriented for solving a problem or balancing anything, there's 519 skills for shields and what 5 or is it 6 to cover the whole social interaction with NPC.
You are your ship.
I don't know about you but my social skills pretty much cover everything I do with NPCs so I don't know what could be added there. They have a skill that improves your current faction, a skill that improves your faction gains, a skill for agent mission rewards. Perhaps it's lack of sleep but I can't think of many new skills they could add that I would buy. Sure you could come up with some skills like "Seduction: dealing with agents of the opposite sex" but I'd rather have more skills that actually change something.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 10:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
Yes, there's hardly ever a skill implemented that's not ship oriented for solving a problem or balancing anything, there's 519 skills for shields and what 5 or is it 6 to cover the whole social interaction with NPC.
You are your ship.
I don't know about you but my social skills pretty much cover everything I do with NPCs so I don't know what could be added there. They have a skill that improves your current faction, a skill that improves your faction gains, a skill for agent mission rewards. Perhaps it's lack of sleep but I can't think of many new skills they could add that I would buy. Sure you could come up with some skills like "Seduction: dealing with agents of the opposite sex" but I'd rather have more skills that actually change something.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
There's a whole score of social skills you could implement if you wanted to, Fencing, Racketeering, Factional Liason, Exclusive Supplier, all with their added little bonuses, just like the millions of shield skills, you take a nap and perhaps you will see this too.
Thank you. I'll take a nap as soon as possible. Please describe what these skills should do or did you just come up with fancy names? There are two shield skills out there. One that increases your shield recharge rate and one that increases your shield total hit points. If you count all the skills in EVE you will see that there aren't even millions of skills in the game. Perhaps you too need a nap (or perhaps I'm trolling  )
Last I heard the developers were working on the contraband system that will open up the black market and probably introduce a lot of new skills related to that. Shiva it will be me thinks.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
There's a whole score of social skills you could implement if you wanted to, Fencing, Racketeering, Factional Liason, Exclusive Supplier, all with their added little bonuses, just like the millions of shield skills, you take a nap and perhaps you will see this too.
Thank you. I'll take a nap as soon as possible. Please describe what these skills should do or did you just come up with fancy names? There are two shield skills out there. One that increases your shield recharge rate and one that increases your shield total hit points. If you count all the skills in EVE you will see that there aren't even millions of skills in the game. Perhaps you too need a nap (or perhaps I'm trolling )
Last I heard the developers were working on the contraband system that will open up the black market and probably introduce a lot of new skills related to that. Shiva it will be me thinks.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
Fencing in that it will be needed selling contraband and moving souped up loot on the market.
Racketeering in that you could hold up and extort convoys and even stations for money rather than just blowing them up, the convoys that is.
I forgot the rest, just off the top of my head, can't be assed to jump back and forth here to answer your whys, inevitably there will be another one at the end of every layout I give no matter how detailed.
Oh yeah, that exclusive contractor or what I called it, skill enabling you to sell at a fixed price above what regular traders can get at a number of locations corresponding to your skill level, you're just that good at working out a legally binding lucrative contract.
It's not hard to come up with social skills for the game if you want to, if being the key word.
As I said then new skills will probably be added when shiva comes out and you must have the contraband system before you can release skills for it so Fencing would do nobody any good at the moment but they are working on itTM.
The Racketeering idea sounds strange and kinda silly but it might work. Warp scramble a convoy and ransom it. Might work.
Exclusive contractor sounds a lot like the trade skill. Is that still not working btw?
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
Fencing in that it will be needed selling contraband and moving souped up loot on the market.
Racketeering in that you could hold up and extort convoys and even stations for money rather than just blowing them up, the convoys that is.
I forgot the rest, just off the top of my head, can't be assed to jump back and forth here to answer your whys, inevitably there will be another one at the end of every layout I give no matter how detailed.
Oh yeah, that exclusive contractor or what I called it, skill enabling you to sell at a fixed price above what regular traders can get at a number of locations corresponding to your skill level, you're just that good at working out a legally binding lucrative contract.
It's not hard to come up with social skills for the game if you want to, if being the key word.
As I said then new skills will probably be added when shiva comes out and you must have the contraband system before you can release skills for it so Fencing would do nobody any good at the moment but they are working on itTM.
The Racketeering idea sounds strange and kinda silly but it might work. Warp scramble a convoy and ransom it. Might work.
Exclusive contractor sounds a lot like the trade skill. Is that still not working btw?
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
Trade skill, I think it went sometime around when the EVE gate did...
Perhaps fixing the broken trade skill would be a better idea then to create a new one that does exactly the same thing but perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the solution to the lack of social skills is to create many skills that do the same thing but have different names.
Am I trolling again?
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
Trade skill, I think it went sometime around when the EVE gate did...
Perhaps fixing the broken trade skill would be a better idea then to create a new one that does exactly the same thing but perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the solution to the lack of social skills is to create many skills that do the same thing but have different names.
Am I trolling again?
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
That's what I meant by it being pointless to describe my ideas, just face it, there's room for as many social skills as there are for combat.
The difference is that Trade is a blanket skill affecting every sale everywhere as far as I can tell, if you read my specs my suggestion wasn't anything like that.
I'm sorry but I haven't slept in a few days (or weeks or hours I don't know).
I read your skill description again and again but I have no idea what you mean. Please don't explain. I have no interest in the subject. I don't give a flying phoon about trade skills. I don't even know why I replied to your posts and I wish I never had. Let's forget that this converstation ever took place.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.28 14:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Redan Chulipa
That's what I meant by it being pointless to describe my ideas, just face it, there's room for as many social skills as there are for combat.
The difference is that Trade is a blanket skill affecting every sale everywhere as far as I can tell, if you read my specs my suggestion wasn't anything like that.
I'm sorry but I haven't slept in a few days (or weeks or hours I don't know).
I read your skill description again and again but I have no idea what you mean. Please don't explain. I have no interest in the subject. I don't give a flying phoon about trade skills. I don't even know why I replied to your posts and I wish I never had. Let's forget that this converstation ever took place.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:30:00 -
[15]
But the fix to trading is so simple its almost riduculous ... just implement a time based supply and demand for the npc commodities. If Everyone runs a particular route it will become unprofitable, but while thats happening other routes will be returning to profit. Etc Etc.
Ok I might be mistaken but isn't this the way it is now? I thought that this was the trade change they implemented in castor. At least I know it's what they did to NPC mineral demmand. I was a mineral trader before castor, I bought from players and sold to NPC cause their demmand was static. I made loads of ISK. Then castor came and if you sell at a station today then it will not pay you as much tomorrow. I don't know about the rest of the trade goods but I thought it was the same there
Then Castor came and there was no money in it any more. The prices simply stagnated and it wasn't worth risking 150m cargoes in 0.0 space for the diminished profits available any more. It used to be 10-15m profit for a 54 jump round trip and large collateral (and running the pirate blockades) ... Castor reduced that margin a few million if you were lucky and pinned the prices there.
So we stopped trading.
Isn't your sugggested change the reason you stopped trading? Before castor there was a static supply and demmand and you knew exactly how much ISK you would get but after caster if you buy up a corps supply prices go up and if you sell to a corp then their prices go down. So now you can't just have a static trade route between two stations, they change all the time.
How trade should work is that every commodity should have a medium price, and absolute low and absolute high prices. Every station needs a base modifier to this that makes an average route differential, as well as a volume weighting per day that determines local effects on the trade price. If the nominal volume is bought/delivered then the price should stay the same. If the nomimal volume is over bought/over delivered the price goes up/down, with the opposite effects if it is under bought/under delivered.
Yeah that's pretty much the way it is today me thinks. At least for minerals and I can't imagine it being any different for trade goods. The reason your radioactive market didn't work after castor is because when you had done 2-3 runs prices went down and it was no longer worth it. Let it settle for a week and if nobody else is running the route you can start making money again. Or find different stations to buy/sell from.
Since the price adjustments happen each day and the amount of buy / sell commodity is limited to X amount, the truly impressive profits are going to go to those traders who keep moving and servicing different routes.
Exactly!!
I think that the developers are leaning towards a more PvP market system and that they will not put much effort into the NPC trade system. More complicated technologies will require more and more items and I think they are hoping that in the end there will be loads of traders just to support the production of ships and modules. Right now I think the majority of all traders are minerals traders (I might be wrong there, just based on those who I know) and we will be seeing more and more component traders and eventually when modules need a big pile of NPC goods the traders dream will come alive again.
This might take some time and there aren't enough trade goods required in tII production to support a lot of traders but who knows what will happen with tIII.
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Rot Animal
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Posted - 2004.07.30 13:30:00 -
[16]
But the fix to trading is so simple its almost riduculous ... just implement a time based supply and demand for the npc commodities. If Everyone runs a particular route it will become unprofitable, but while thats happening other routes will be returning to profit. Etc Etc.
Ok I might be mistaken but isn't this the way it is now? I thought that this was the trade change they implemented in castor. At least I know it's what they did to NPC mineral demmand. I was a mineral trader before castor, I bought from players and sold to NPC cause their demmand was static. I made loads of ISK. Then castor came and if you sell at a station today then it will not pay you as much tomorrow. I don't know about the rest of the trade goods but I thought it was the same there
Then Castor came and there was no money in it any more. The prices simply stagnated and it wasn't worth risking 150m cargoes in 0.0 space for the diminished profits available any more. It used to be 10-15m profit for a 54 jump round trip and large collateral (and running the pirate blockades) ... Castor reduced that margin a few million if you were lucky and pinned the prices there.
So we stopped trading.
Isn't your sugggested change the reason you stopped trading? Before castor there was a static supply and demmand and you knew exactly how much ISK you would get but after caster if you buy up a corps supply prices go up and if you sell to a corp then their prices go down. So now you can't just have a static trade route between two stations, they change all the time.
How trade should work is that every commodity should have a medium price, and absolute low and absolute high prices. Every station needs a base modifier to this that makes an average route differential, as well as a volume weighting per day that determines local effects on the trade price. If the nominal volume is bought/delivered then the price should stay the same. If the nomimal volume is over bought/over delivered the price goes up/down, with the opposite effects if it is under bought/under delivered.
Yeah that's pretty much the way it is today me thinks. At least for minerals and I can't imagine it being any different for trade goods. The reason your radioactive market didn't work after castor is because when you had done 2-3 runs prices went down and it was no longer worth it. Let it settle for a week and if nobody else is running the route you can start making money again. Or find different stations to buy/sell from.
Since the price adjustments happen each day and the amount of buy / sell commodity is limited to X amount, the truly impressive profits are going to go to those traders who keep moving and servicing different routes.
Exactly!!
I think that the developers are leaning towards a more PvP market system and that they will not put much effort into the NPC trade system. More complicated technologies will require more and more items and I think they are hoping that in the end there will be loads of traders just to support the production of ships and modules. Right now I think the majority of all traders are minerals traders (I might be wrong there, just based on those who I know) and we will be seeing more and more component traders and eventually when modules need a big pile of NPC goods the traders dream will come alive again.
This might take some time and there aren't enough trade goods required in tII production to support a lot of traders but who knows what will happen with tIII.
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