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SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:07:00 - [1] I have been paying and playing for over 7 months now and I have recently revisited the militia ( I joined before to see what it was all about)after gaining more skill points. So far I have been a part of 4 different losing fleets commanded by people who like to run from a fight instead of stay and fight resulting in my losing ships trying to help those who stay behind or get stuck behind after the other cowards run. The result from the running are many chats about why did we run or what is going on etc. I know most of you will reply with bull** answers saying don't fleet or some other smart ass comment, but the fact that older players running this game like noobs still exist. I ran missions forever trying to gain experience, when I join what I thought was a group of individuals who knew how to PVP I was more then disappointed. There were fleets where we ran from system to system following enemy pilots saying "we will head them off" and "we will meet them in thi sytem", only to get blown to freagn hell. Piloting from systme to system doing nothing but listening to bull** the whole time. I can not believe that there are players out there being called fleet commanders who do not know how to put on pants never the less form a fleet and command it. Just because you train it on this game does not make you a commander of anything and most should be demoted, which brings me to my post. If you have been a part of a fleet who was run by some sorry ass fleet commander then put this characters name here. Check back and the next time your joining a fleet, you may want to check here and see if the FC is a puss or not, may save you plenty of time and ISK.
flashfreaking LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:10:00 - [2] If a FC pusses out it either means he sucks, or that he knows he can't win, and decides that he would rather save his ass. I can't blame him for the second, I can blame him for the first. Also: If you can do it so much better: Do it yourself, and stop whining, or maybe we would have to post your sorryass in this thread as well?
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:12:00 - [3] Edited by: SgtRaider on 19/01/2009 07:19:30 Edited by: SgtRaider on 19/01/2009 07:18:51 Edited by: SgtRaider on 19/01/2009 07:18:27 FLASHFREAKING stfu dumbass, read the post and post if you know what it means only, dumbass. If a Fleet Commander runs and leaves half his fleet he is not a commander. READ THE POST
Luke Lor'aul Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:12:00 - [4] Butter Dog tbfh.. Just kidding, but seriously, if you're expecting a good pvp experience headed by good FCs, the best place to go is a large, respectable 0.0 alliance, or join a faction war corporation that has been around the block a couple times, instead of just straight up joining a militia like the TLF.
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:17:00 - [5] So far two ass holes who cant read. Reply to the POST, meaning Fleet Commanders who cannot Command. PHONICS is needed for some I know.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:19:00 - [6] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 19/01/2009 07:19:53 If you expect a defeat, no question, then you should give the order to bail out. Only thing "stupid" a FC can do is let his own pride(or bride) come in the way of the safety of his fleet. Also, have you commanded a fleet? Before you start calling me names for not name/shaming someone, i don't do that sort of thing and it shouldn't be encouraged as A: it's biased and B: might ruin some innocent guys, who's just trying to learn/play, game completely.
Sir Howard Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:19:00 - [7] Originally by: SgtRaider FLASHFREAKING stfu dumbass, read the post and post if you know what it means only, dumbass Actually, Flashfreaking had a valid point. And your reply to his post completely took away any chance you had at making this thread successful.
Luke Lor'aul Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:20:00 - [8] Troll post is troll
flashfreaking LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:21:00 - [9] Originally by: flashfreaking Also: If you can do it so much better: Do it yourself, and stop whining, or maybe we would have to post your sorryass in this thread as well? Quoting myself
caldaricitizen 69	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:21:00 - [10] ninja editing on the fly is lol
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:24:00 - [11] Oh gods. Wall of text. If you want someone to read that think about paragraphs. Yeah, I know its short, but its still unreadable. Do something to it that somehow makes it more legible and I'll read and comment appropriately. Now I know you're going to respond to me by calling me a "fracking a**ole" as you have everyone else, but I had to point out the clearly obvious--your post cannot be read in its current instantiation. Which reminds me, why exactly are you exploding on everyone who has posted? I mean their posts were pretty gods damned considerate given the forum you've posted on. Tbh, you are the one coming off as an asshat here. -K
Flamewave Crimson Moon Society	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:25:00 - [12] Originally by: SgtRaider So far two ass holes who cant read. Make it three. You missed the Faction Warfare forum. But please, keep running around insulting people on the interweb.
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:25:00 - [13] Again, you all have posted what a valid fleet commander would do for his fleet. Hitting the jump button as an enemy fleet comes in is a ***** reaction, meaning you leave half your fleet to fight alone. This is what I have seen. This is what has happened the last 3 of 4 times I was in a fleet battle/roam/whatever. The fact is there are commanders out there who are using the time they have had to train to lead a group of militia to certain death because they value their ship more so then the value of the fleet. I see posts here about the same damn thing over and over, have you commanded a fleet yet. NO I have not and when I do, I will not leve while there are pilots staying behind to fight, which I have already shown by staying behind with htose who get stuck or can not warp out fast enough.
Luke Lor'aul Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:28:00 - [14] Isn't your inability to retreat your own fault? Not the FC's? Perhaps you should listen to the person with the experience, who's trying to tell you to get safe to save YOUR ship, along with the rest of his fleet? Staying behind to fight is not heroic, it's just dumb.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:29:00 - [15] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 19/01/2009 07:33:49 If the FC leaves, you leave. It's basic rules of war really. Commander takes off, you take off, watch your FC. It's simple, and normal, to blame the FC but it rarely IS so simple and people should take responsibility for their own actions as well. Why did the people stay behind? Why did you not tell people to leave? Did the FC give a command to leave? Did the FC give command to leave over voice-com?
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:35:00 - [16] Seems there is only an instance to run, like a coward, as this is a server based game. When the FC decides to run, he gives the command and he is gone, by then you are left behind holding the bag of crap while it burns. How about staying and killing what you can when you get caught with your pants down instead of leaving others behind? Or does this negate the FC book of survival?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:37:00 - [17] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 19/01/2009 07:38:20 Originally by: SgtRaider Seems there is only an instance to run, like a coward, as this is a server based game. When the FC decides to run, he gives the command and he is gone, by then you are left behind holding the bag of crap while it burns. How about staying and killing what you can when you get caught with your pants down instead of leaving others behind? Or does this negate the FC book of survival? Fighting a loosing battle may be "honorable" in some klingon book of silly notations, but in reality, if you know you're going to lose, then you give the command and get the hell out of dodge. You can't hold every persons hand and make sure they DO leave. Anyone staying behind to hold that bag of burning doggydoo, only has him/herself to blame. In short; if you don't take your FCs commands, you can't blame them.
flashfreaking LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:37:00 - [18] Originally by: flashfreaking Originally by: flashfreaking Also: If you can do it so much better: Do it yourself, and stop whining, or maybe we would have to post your sorryass in this thread as well? Quoting myself Keep on Quoting
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:39:00 - [19] Sherrif Jones, you must be a Fleet Commander!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:40:00 - [20] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 19/01/2009 07:40:07 Originally by: SgtRaider Sherrif Jones, you must be a Fleet Commander! Actually no, i must not be one. looks around hugs his command ship none the less I'll nevew weave you my pwetty cuddly bird.
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:40:00 - [21] Originally by: flashfreaking Originally by: flashfreaking Originally by: flashfreaking Also: If you can do it so much better: Do it yourself, and stop whining, or maybe we would have to post your sorryass in this thread as well? Quoting myself An ass will----Keep on Quoting
Florio Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:42:00 - [22] You, good sir, are being an asshat. You cannot properly criticise an FC until you have FCd. So STFU, start a gang, and see if you can do well. Does a good FC let all his fleet die rather than half his fleet? Did the FC order his fleet to engage at the gate? I don't think you care about the circumstances though. Also, more than half the battle is stepping up to be an FC in the first place. If mistakes are made then as long as the FC learns from them and doesn't get put off by asshats like you then that's just part of the process and it means that everyone will have a better FC from then on. Stop whinging, you've made yourself look like a fool.
Adaris Gallente E X I U S	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:44:00 - [23] OP : your very bitter Bitterness is the path to the dark side. Bitterness leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Suffering leads to quiting. Don't be bitter.
SgtRaider	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:50:00 - [24] You are correct, I am bitter. I waited to join a militia for months. I trained skills to make sure my ship was strong enough to take a few hits before it gets destroyed. I thought there were FC out there who knew how to command, so far I have not seen any. Hate, yeah you got that right.
flashfreaking LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:52:00 - [25] Originally by: flashfreaking Originally by: flashfreaking Originally by: flashfreaking Also: If you can do it so much better: Do it yourself, and stop whining, or maybe we would have to post your sorryass in this thread as well? Quoting myself Keep on Quoting One needs to make a point...
Number 86 Eat Ship and Die	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:53:00 - [26] Originally by: SgtRaider If you have been a part of a fleet who was run by some sorry ass fleet commander then put this characters name here. posting SgtRaider as a fail FC MAKE NOTES
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:02:00 - [27] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 19/01/2009 08:05:31 Okay okay, so I was in fleet with SgtRaider the other day right, and this massive gank squad undocks from a local station and immediately proceeds to warp to our own gang. Probably had a covert ops watching us and positioning for the gank squad warp-in the whole time, but whatever. Anyway the FC says bail because he knows this fight is going to be stupidly one-sided. I'm in a battleship which I usually don't fly because I hate how slow they are on alignment, but I figured I'd fit a cloak which maybe hopefully would add some protection if things went badly and I needed to hide while the ungainly thing aligned towards a safespot. Well anyway long story short I cloak up and what do I see? The whole fleet warping out except for two guys: some unfortunate gang member in another battleship who was tackled all to hell, and SgtRaider attempting to "help" said individual by attacking the enemy gank squad which outnumbered us on-grid at this point by about ten to one. Needless to say SgtRaider made this thread, perhaps as a result of the FC's decision to save the majority of the gang at the expense of those who were already beyond help. None of this story is actually true but I wonder if somewhere out there someone is reading it and saying "oh yeah that sounds like SgtRaider lol". I'm being mean as a defense mechanism because the tone of this thread is so hostile I actually like this SgtRaider guy he the whole fleet and doesn't afraid of anything (apparently) Originally by: SgtRaider I ran missions forever trying to gain experience Originally by: SgtRaider missions Originally by: SgtRaider experience Doesn't compute tbh.
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:10:00 - [28] MY FLEET COMMANDER WAS FIT WITH THE FOLLOWING: COMPLETE ****** OP. -- Sig under construction.
Number 86 Eat Ship and Die	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Dirk Magnum story. The whole fleet warping out except for two guys: some unfortunate gang member in another battleship who was tackled all to hell, and SgtRaider attempting to "help" said individual by attacking the enemy gank squad which outnumbered us on-grid at this point by about ten to one. Needless to say SgtRaider made this thread, perhaps as a result of the FC's decision to save the majority of the gang at the expense of those who were already beyond help. Honour tank?
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.19 08:45:00 - [30] SgtRaider has a point, an invalid one, but a point at least! Always keep your eye on the FC, if they say GTFO, you follow quickly.
Gorgan Sixfinger Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.19 09:44:00 - [31] While SgtRaider does have a point, his post is at best all over the place. There are players commanding who should try harder. Some FCs seem to care very little about basics like scouting, while others are perpetually outnumbered. There is no shame in running from a fight that your experience tells you is going to be a one sided mess. Trying to re-position your fleet or simply trying to get away from superior numbers as also "good FCing." OPs idea The whole name & shame idea behind the original post is misguided at best. You might get a few "hits," but most posts are likely to be from players like SgtRaider. Players who have had a few bad experiences, and rage-post the unlucky FCs name all over the place. My suggestion is to grab cheaper ships, lean back and watch what the FCs do wrong. Make notes, come up with alternate ways of doing things and when you are ready, simply take command of a fleet yourself - sometimes the only way to get things done right, is to do them yourself. Location location location The General forum area is also a bad place to post a thread like this. Since posting traffic is high in here, the thread is likely to be bumped to page two in mere hours. Rage content The amount of cursing and "explaining" in the OP makes it hard to take seriously. Indeed some forum members have already called the obligatory "Troll is Troll." If you truly want people to "name & shame" the "Brave, Brave Sir Robin"-type FCs, then remain calm, cool & collected. State the purpose of the thread: Originally by: "Suggestion" The purpose of this thread is to give members of all factions a place to name the really crappy FCs. I leave it up to each poster to determine what constitutes "bad FCing," but try to remain on-topic. Hopefully the really terrible Faction FC will find it harder and harder to assemble fleets for them to throw away/abandon (you know you they are.) See how my post is direct and to the point. Sure people might still troll it, and think I am stupid, but if the original poster (SgtRaider) had considered how he could get his message across, this thread could have been a good resource for faction-pilots. Instead it is a mess, just like the mess he is trying to combat (irony?)
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:49:00 - [32] Originally by: SgtRaider I ran missions forever trying to gain experience I bolded the part where you failed.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.01.19 11:16:00 - [33] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: SgtRaider I ran missions forever trying to gain experience I bolded the part where you failed. Running forever, yes, but to certain point missions DO work as a nice trainer
Eben Rochelle Gallente Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.01.19 11:47:00 - [34] Flash is Awesome and OP is a Troll. If your so fecking clued up you run an Op. I ****ing hate backseat FC's!!!!1!!!!1one!!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.19 11:53:00 - [35] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 19/01/2009 11:53:57 An FC is only as good as the pilots in the fleet. If every FC you fly under fails, then perhaps the best place to look for the problem is in the mirror. It's also worth pointing out that FCing becomes infinitely more difficult when you've never flown with 75% of your underlings before.
Sral TBear Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.19 12:48:00 - [36] I have been in the militia when it first startet out. Back then alot "tryed" to become a good FC, but alot failed. I have lost ships to FC`s getting out without any notice or he missed gang warp and first when he was safe, telling the rest to get out. FC`s come in all shapes, only a few i have met in my time in eve can be considered good FC`s then there is a fair number of ok FC`s and a big number of bad FC`s about the part leave (run) it comes down to the same idea, stabs or no stabs. I dont like running from a battle and die because of this, but i know it and are aware of it. best advice. Dont jump into any fleet, be critical and use common sence. Dont give up, and you can always test a FC out by jumping into a frigate and join a few fleets. Think thats all TBear
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.01.19 13:27:00 - [37] Edited by: TraininVain on 19/01/2009 13:28:59 This thread has it all. Angry newbies. Explosions. Boobies. Car chases.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.19 14:32:00 - [38] Originally by: SgtRaider Seems there is only an instance to run, like a coward, as this is a server based game. When the FC decides to run, he gives the command and he is gone, by then you are left behind holding the bag of crap while it burns. How about staying and killing what you can when you get caught with your pants down instead of leaving others behind? Or does this negate the FC book of survival? Learn to align. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Traidor Disloyal Minmatar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.01.19 16:19:00 - [39] Originally by: TraininVain This thread has it all. Angry newbies. Explosions. Boobies. Car chases. I like boobies, explosions, and car chases. I can see it now: A big breasted amazon driving a car through a bunch of explosions! Tissues! Where are my tissues! Quick with the tissues before the monitor gets it! If you don't like an FC don't follow him/her into the jaws of hell. If you think you can do better then step up to the plate, else shut up. I still need them friggen tissues.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.19 16:22:00 - [40] this thread is getting hot , i have to monitor and see what happens :) be ready for stupid remarks heading from me soonÖ (just woke up really)
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.19 16:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: SgtRaider Seems there is only an instance to run, like a coward, as this is a server based game. When the FC decides to run, he gives the command and he is gone, by then you are left behind holding the bag of crap while it burns. How about staying and killing what you can when you get caught with your pants down instead of leaving others behind? Or does this negate the FC book of survival? Learn to align. Quoting. There's no excuse to not be aligned in fleets now tat they put it in the menu.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2009.01.19 17:27:00 - [42] Originally by: SgtRaider I have been paying and playing for over 7 months now and I have recently revisited the militia ( I joined before to see what it was all about)after gaining more skill points. So far I have been a part of 4 different losing fleets commanded by people who like to run from a fight instead of stay and fight resulting in my losing ships trying to help those who stay behind or get stuck behind after the other cowards run. The result from the running are many chats about why did we run or what is going on etc. I know most of you will reply with bull** answers saying don't fleet or some other smart ass comment, but the fact that older players running this game like noobs still exist. I ran missions forever trying to gain experience, when I join what I thought was a group of individuals who knew how to PVP I was more then disappointed. There were fleets where we ran from system to system following enemy pilots saying "we will head them off" and "we will meet them in thi sytem", only to get blown to freagn hell. Piloting from systme to system doing nothing but listening to bull** the whole time. I can not believe that there are players out there being called fleet commanders who do not know how to put on pants never the less form a fleet and command it. Just because you train it on this game does not make you a commander of anything and most should be demoted, which brings me to my post. If you have been a part of a fleet who was run by some sorry ass fleet commander then put this characters name here. Check back and the next time your joining a fleet, you may want to check here and see if the FC is a puss or not, may save you plenty of time and ISK. I've found out whats wrong with your FC. Its you.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.19 17:44:00 - [43] SgtRaider...I understand your original post and all...but every post after that has made you look more like some moron that just lost his ship and is crying on the forums about it, blaming it on the FC... I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying YOU are doing a VERY good job in making it look that way...
Antimony Noske	Posted - 2009.01.19 17:58:00 - [44] Edited by: Antimony Noske on 19/01/2009 18:02:58 Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 19/01/2009 08:11:52 Okay okay, so I was in fleet with SgtRaider the other day right, and this massive gank squad undocks from a local station and immediately proceeds to warp to our own gang. Probably had a covert ops watching us and positioning for the gank squad warp-in the whole time, but whatever. Anyway the FC says bail because he knows this fight is going to be stupidly one-sided. I'm in a battleship which I usually don't fly because I hate how slow they are on alignment, but I figured I'd fit a cloak which maybe hopefully would add some protection if things went badly and I needed to hide while the ungainly thing aligned towards a safespot. Well anyway long story short I cloak up and what do I see? The whole fleet warping out except for two guys: some unfortunate gang member in another battleship who was tackled all to hell, and SgtRaider attempting to "help" said individual by attacking the enemy gank squad which outnumbered us on-grid at this point by about ten to one. Needless to say SgtRaider made this thread, perhaps as a result of the FC's decision to save the majority of the gang at the expense of those who were already beyond help. As for me I warped out safely while they were going to town on SgtRaider *==-->None of this story is actually true<--==* You SERIOUSLY need to amend this to the top of your post. Because you're misleading people. Especially those who don't finish your post all the way to the end, and come out of it with assumptions. Character assassination is not a kind thing to do, regardless of how this guy is behaving on the forum. Let him kill himself. [He seems to be doing a fine job of it already.] Originally by: Gnomes Rock There's no excuse to not be aligned in fleets now tat they put it in the menu. I'd argue that this depends on the class of ship being talked about. It'd be suicide for a cruiser/frigate/interceptor to always be aligned, when they have to maneuver around the larger ships in order to stay alive.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.19 20:13:00 - [45] Originally by: Antimony Noske Originally by: Gnomes Rock There's no excuse to not be aligned in fleets now tat they put it in the menu. I'd argue that this depends on the class of ship being talked about. It'd be suicide for a cruiser/frigate/interceptor to always be aligned, when they have to maneuver around the larger ships in order to stay alive. If the OP was in an intercepter/cruiser/frigate then he has no excuse for not getting out when the FC gave the order. Either way it's his (or anybody who gets stuck behind in a fleet encounter)'s fault.

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