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Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 11:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some love em, some hate em with a passion, but cloakers in Eve serve a purpose: recon and surveillance. But they tend to turn into a hassle, namely 24/7 afk cloakers waiting on a 2nd account for a kill shot. I happen to love playing cloakers and hate those afk guys with a passion, which led me to think a bit about how the later ones could be dealt with without destroying the entire cloaking concept. Now that we have downtime anyways, I'd like to share these ideas. 
There are several concepts on how to deal with cloakers, reaching from fuel-based ideas, special anti-cloaker probes to anti-cloaker doomsdays, expressing the various degrees of hate against them. Now Eve happens to be a place where possibilities are eventually exploited if they are just lucrative enough, and some players tend to have an impressive amount of money and nothing to spent it on. The same fact invalidates all ideas that are purely based on the availability of a certain thing to counter cloakers (e.g. very expensive items, fuel, upkeep, bling bling, you name it).
On the other hand a cloaking device serves a purpose, that is being able to fly into dangerous space unharmed and stay there for a while. And whenever an alliance likes to spy on another alliance, this ability is extremely valuable. A solution therefore should not destroy this primary purpose of a cloaking device, otherwise it becomes completely pointless to even fit it. This rules out ideas that reliably negate cloaking devices like probes, anti-cloaking ships or the "Doomsday of Revelation" (tm).
And finally Eve is a place where risk means potential fortune, therefore an active player taking a risk should have a chance to be awarded for it, or die a horrible death in a nifty explosion. In other words: the big issue is not the cloaking device or a player flying around cloaked, but the guy that sits 24/7 afk in his ship on a second account till there is an absolute guaranteed kill available, therefore negating the risk while annoying the hell out of everyone in the system. A solution therefore should target the afk guys and not the active players.
Summarizing these ideas an anti-cloking mechanic needs to:
- Must not destroy the primary purpose of cloaking.
- Be limited in use in general and not based on a ressource.
- Needs to work chance-based and never get close to 100%. Chance must be tied to the potential gain.
- Needs to give an active player a chance to counter the effect, while be a guaranteed death for the afk guy.
My final idea is this infrastructure upgrade: Luminescent Ionic upgade (Strategic upgrade module) Description: Activating this module will cause a spread of ionized particles to be send throughout the system which react with a noticeable glow if they come in contact with a ship's shield systems. This allows scanners and probes to be able to detect ships to a much higher degree and even allow to be able to detect cloaked ships.
Effect: When activated gives a 10% increase to combat scan probe strength per strategic level of the system used in and causes all ships to glow (causing an effect like if a shield booster is used), therefore making it possible to scan for cloaked ships. The effect lasts for 10 minutes and can be reactivated only after a cooldown based on the strategic level of the system (12h/6h/4h/2h/1h).
There is as well an upkeep cost associated with this upgrade and there will be no notification to ships if it is used. A cloaked ship under the effect of this upgrade will still be cloaked and cannot be targeted, but it will be visible and a bracket will be displayed around the ship if it is in visual range.
Let's take two scenarios: 1. An afk player is on his safe-spot flying downwards at 300 m/s waiting for someone to wander in his trap. If the module is active the player probably won't notice the faint glow on his shields and continue to be afk. In the meantime other players have launched their scan probes, find the ship, warp to it, search around for the cloaky bracket,approach it and shoot it down.
2. An active player sits in his ship and does whatever an active cloaker does. When the upgrade is activated, the player might notice the glow of his shields and knows that there are now people scanning for him, he is practically visible. He can counter this by warping around safe-spots in hope that the scanning ships are not fast enough to find his safe-spots and wait for him the next time he warps to them. If the player doesn't notice the glow, he can still see the sudden increase of combat scanner probes on the scanner and react accordingly. If the player doesn't look at that and doesn't notice the glow, his last chance is to notice that someone just warped to his safe spot (usually a few km behind if the cloaky is moving) and approaches his location. If the player tries to leave the system, he still has to get through a potential gate camp that will see him and will be able to uncloak and then kill him.
As this upgrade will only be available in inhabited systems and tied to the strategic level (thus how long it is inhabited), most parts of the universe will not tamper with cloakers, or in other words: only systems where recon is valuable will be dangerous. In addition a smart and active cloaker will know that there is such an upgrade and will be able to counter the effect, however it will be dangerous and some might explode when they warp on their safe-spot the second time and a fleet is already waiting for them. Once the effect wears off, the cloker has 50 minutes to do whatever he wants, till the hunt starts again.
I think this will solve the issue with afk cloakers and give sovereignty holders a reasonable but fair tool against cloaking ships as well as some other strategic benefits. |

grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
3
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Posted - 2011.09.13 12:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Or you could just HTFU |

Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 12:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
grazer gin wrote:Or you could just HTFU Actually had to check that on Google. 
Of course a well established alliance in 0.0 hardly has any issues with cloakers, they either cyno-drop them or run in groups big enough so that a single cloaker is no issue. However CCP wants to encourage players to go into 0.0 space even if they are not in a 100 ppl alliance. If you do not have the ressources and/or time to be active with 20+ players all the time, cloakers are a serious issue and drove people out of 0.0 on their own not only once.
Once they loose their first ships and after brainstorming come to the conclusion that their only weapon against a cloaker is a bait, there are several possible scenarios: - They bait the cloaker, kill him, and he comes back because he has enough money/is paid by another alliance.
- They bait the cloaker, but he drops a cyno and his 20 friends on them killing everyone.
- They realize that the cloaker is not taking the bait and only hunts lonley mining ships/industrials when he is absolutely sure that they are no bait.
As a matter of fact if you cannot do anything in 0.0 you have a great risk without any income, therefore nullifying the reason to go into 0.0. And a single enemy should not be able to drive an alliance out of their space while being mostly afk. |

Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 12:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yer idea is way too complicated.
But I agree something needs to be done about AFK cloakers who prowl systems and make everyone nervous and basically unable to do anything productive or profitable.
But the solution could be a lot easier. The client can detect of someone is doing things, like typing, moving the mouse, etc. The client can easily be changed to decloak people who are completely inactive after X amount of time. This won't stop the most determined of cloaking harassment, but it'll sure help a lot if people actually have to be active in their client every X minutes to remain cloaked. |

Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 12:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:But the solution could be a lot easier. The client can detect of someone is doing things, like typing, moving the mouse, etc. The client can easily be changed to decloak people who are completely inactive after X amount of time. This won't stop the most determined of cloaking harassment, but it'll sure help a lot if people actually have to be active in their client every X minutes to remain cloaked. That would be of course technically trivial to do, however it would for once provide an out-of-game solution (although an effective one), which would be kind of a break of the current game mechanics, and for second: my G15 keyboard is capable of repeatedly causing input while I am afk if I want to, so this solution would eventually turn into a war between CCP and hackers and turn out be become even more complicated than initially planned. |

Elindreal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 14:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
You're not the first to come up with a similar idea. The only real solution I think is to make local chat delayed, as such you won't even see cloakers in local. Once that happens people can live in ignorant bliss.
Sovereignty upgrades are interesting and all, but a serious cost must be associated with them, be it in the alliances' sovereignty bills, the inability to install other upgrades or mutual exclusion with other significant upgrades.
Personally, the most non-intrusive idea I prefer which has already been posted is somewhat a combination of these two... 1) change null-sec local chat to delayed - therefore you can live in ignorant bliss 2) create sovereignty upgrades to re-instate local such as an alliance comm towers - in a sense local channel is a system which must be maintained when you think about it. 3) anyone you see in local who isn't blue is/must be a cloaker.
I don't understand why people can't stand the fact that there could be a cloaker in system, afk or not. Get over it. Use your dscan. You're in non-secure space, looking over your shoulder should be common practice. |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
f*ck off, if we need anything at all thats no more afk cloak whines. cloaking is fine, afk cloaking is fine, GTFO of nullsec if you cant deal with them. |

Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:I don't understand why people can't stand the fact that there could be a cloaker in system, afk or not. Get over it. Use your dscan. You're in non-secure space, looking over your shoulder should be common practice.
The reason people cant stand it, is because ONE bozo can effectively shut down an entire system to mining/plex running by remaining in the system cloaked. All he has to do is kill one guy and then just stay there. No one will go out because you cant tell where he is, if he's afk or not.
It's not fair that one pilot NOT EVEN PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME can shut down an entire star system with his presense. |

Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:That would be of course technically trivial to do, however it would for once provide an out-of-game solution (although an effective one), which would be kind of a break of the current game mechanics
Sorry, I totally fail to see the breaking of game mechincs by my suggestion. Please elaborate, for my curisouity?
Raw Matters wrote:and for second: my G15 keyboard is capable of repeatedly causing input while I am afk if I want to, so this solution would eventually turn into a war between CCP and hackers and turn out be become even more complicated than initially planned.
I will refer you to this line in my OP: This won't stop the most determined of cloaking harassment |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:Elindreal wrote:I don't understand why people can't stand the fact that there could be a cloaker in system, afk or not. Get over it. Use your dscan. You're in non-secure space, looking over your shoulder should be common practice. The reason people cant stand it, is because ONE bozo can effectively shut down an entire system to mining/plex running by remaining in the system cloaked. All he has to do is kill one guy and then just stay there. No one will go out because you cant tell where he is, if he's afk or not. It's not fair that one pilot NOT EVEN PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME can shut down an entire star system with his presense.
nobody forced you to go zero space. So if you did HTFU or get out there. |

Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 14:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:nobody forced you to go zero space. So if you did HTFU or get out there. You are 100% correct. And I left 0.0 and will likely never return because of brokenness like this. |

Elindreal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:The reason people cant stand it, is because ONE bozo can effectively shut down an entire system to mining/plex running by remaining in the system cloaked. All he has to do is kill one guy and then just stay there. No one will go out because you cant tell where he is, if he's afk or not.
It's not fair that one pilot NOT EVEN PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME can shut down an entire star system with his presense.
Like I said... just live in ignorant bliss and imagine local isn't +1. Until you see probes and such on dscan who cares? When you say "no one will go out" I'm led to believe that there are multiple people in your corp/alliance. Is no one able to hop into a drake to fly escort for your mining ops?
This is like an anger management class, you won't learn to accept cloakers until you realize that you are the only one keeping yourself from playing EVE, not the cloakers. |

Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:blah blah blah As I said, I don't do null anymore. It's a waste of time, just lose money trying to operate in null. High sec incursions is where the money is at anyway and quite safe from people who've nothing better to do than blow up mining barges. |

Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10
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Posted - 2011.09.13 14:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:Elindreal wrote:I don't understand why people can't stand the fact that there could be a cloaker in system, afk or not. Get over it. Use your dscan. You're in non-secure space, looking over your shoulder should be common practice. The reason people cant stand it, is because ONE bozo can effectively shut down an entire system to mining/plex running by remaining in the system cloaked. All he has to do is kill one guy and then just stay there. No one will go out because you cant tell where he is, if he's afk or not. It's not fair that one pilot NOT EVEN PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME can shut down an entire star system with his presense. They don't shut down anything, it's up to the locals as to what measures they take. If you decide that remaining docked is your only option, then that's your choice. Many change fits, form gangs and carry on.
As for the OP, why is any kind of nerf needed? CCP Zulu.....Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Silver Dolan
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 17:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
How about a 14au (some radius) sov. Pos module that is fueled with stront (a large amount) like tower two day cycle reinforce quantity once activated pulses and decloaks ANY ship for a few seconds. If afk the pilot would not reactivate cloak. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
34
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 18:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Crappy idea, breaks cloaks.
Simplest "fix" to the afk cloaker... have them disappear from local when they cloak. Also have then be unable to see local when cloaked... no free system-wide intel
Finally, have a 30 second or so delay before you can lite a cyno when decloaking.
Bam. Simple, effective, makes cloaks more true and intel more active. Send isk. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Vanilla Twilight
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 19:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Crappy idea, breaks cloaks.
Simplest "fix" to the afk cloaker... have them disappear from local when they cloak. Also have then be unable to see local when cloaked... no free system-wide intel
Finally, have a 30 second or so delay before you can lite a cyno when decloaking.
Bam. Simple, effective, makes cloaks more true and intel more active. Send isk.
have to agree with you |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 21:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well, I posted a long and frightenly complete rebuttal to not only this idea but to every other idea put forth to counter cloaking by the nerf-herders over the past years. But in true eve forum style it dropped all my text as I went to post my three page response.
I will not retype it. I'm fed up at the moment. I will say NO, your idea is not a good one. It will not fix AFK cloaking in any meaningful way.. People who complain about afkers really aren't upset about the afk.. they want a nerf for cloaking and are using that issue to try to "win a nerf". Your idea would still allow afk cloaking at a distance which if I'm not mistaken would be the afk position of choice.
The problem seems to be the psycological impact of a cloaker in system long term. So the obvious and lore consistant answer is to remove the cloaked from local. Any afk cloaker would not be seen and could not cause trouble.. because they are afk. Any person deliberately trying to intimidate a player while afk would no longer have a way to do it. If they are not afk lol - set traps, scan for probes, bring in your own cloakers, ninja (whatever you are doing), but stop whinning about cloaks.
I can think of only one possible problem with this which could be easily resolved. A cloaker intent on going afk and intimidating players with his afk presense (lol) could potentially create a bot to spam local with chat accomplishing his intimidation.. but CCP have an anti bot, anti spam policy... it's conceivable that doing this could get him banned if you report him; afk cloaky bad guy gone.
Remove the cloaked from local! [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 21:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Silver Dolan wrote:How about a 14au (some radius) sov. Pos module that is fueled with stront (a large amount) like tower two day cycle reinforce quantity once activated pulses and decloaks ANY ship for a few seconds. If afk the pilot would not reactivate cloak.
14AU? Good Grief! Why set the presedent for any player driven module to be able to impact ships nearly system wide? If your POS is close enough (14AU certainly is close to anything - especially since every POS will have one) to a gate what luck! you now have a chance to auto decloak blockaide runners approaching a gate. Didn't CCP have to nerf Titan AOE once because it was to large?... why allow this? No, I don't think the idea is a good one.
Again the only idea that makes sense as far as afk cloaking is concerned is removing the cloaked from local. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 22:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:Yer idea is way too complicated.
But I agree something needs to be done about AFK cloakers who prowl systems and make everyone nervous and basically unable to do anything productive or profitable.
But the solution could be a lot easier. The client can detect of someone is doing things, like typing, moving the mouse, etc. The client can easily be changed to decloak people who are completely inactive after X amount of time. This won't stop the most determined of cloaking harassment, but it'll sure help a lot if people actually have to be active in their client every X minutes to remain cloaked.
Again here we are seeing the arguement against afk cloakers being used to try to win a nerf against all cloaking. The dead giveaway here is the statements, "This won't stop the most determined of cloaking harassment" and "...something needs to be done about AFK cloakers who prowl systems and make everyone nervous and basically unable to do anything productive or profitable.
You say that some keyboard movement should be required to keep them cloaked.. but how easy is it to have a macro randomly enter some text in private chat to avoid detection and decloaking?
The easy fix to players nervous about afk cloakers is removing the "prowling" afkers from local if they are cloaked. No one will know they are there. and if they try to intimidate through botting text in local report them as a bot and for spamming; get them banned.
This will also cause them to have to be more careful about setting up a gank as the cloaked will then have to worry about enemy cloaked they can no longer freely detect.
Remove cloaked from local! [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Hoodlums Associates
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 02:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ok your idea has been used a thousand times. So once again... no. 
Try this.
Your cloak is something designed to bend light around you so you look like you are invisible. Light is energy. Radio waves are also energy.
SO WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU KEEP YOUR F***ING COMMS RADIO ON WHEN YOU'RE CLOAKED?!?!? In the military we call it noise and light discipline.
Removing local would be a bad idea. But you know how when you jump into a new system you are already temp cloaked? Well when you move or sit there too long or turn on your own cloak, you are visible. When you are cloaked you should disappear from local. When you are uncloaked you show back up on local. Even for that brief second while transitioning between temp cloak and your cloak.
This presents another problem though. Now you have a whole bunch of people cloaked up in local and noone is on local. You have no idea anyone is there. Hmm...
[green]Well; make it "optional".[/green}
The chat window is like a communications radio. When you cloak you should turn off your radio.
Think about it with physics.
Anything that is bending light energy is going to catch some interference and get a little fuzzy and shimmery when a large burst of radio waves is being blasted through it backwards. So make it so that when you cloak up you also click another button right next to it to "turn off your comms". Your chat window gets minimized, and your scan signature is reduced to normal cloaky levels... zero.
You will be immediately removed from local, and your icon will show up as faded in any other chat rooms you are joined to so your friends will know you are in silent running/cloaked mode. You can still receive messages in the chat window you just won't be able to chat out unless you turn on your comms system. And it will be an on/off system too; no waiting for something to warm up or boot up or some other such nonsense.
Once you turn it on again while you are cloaked you will show up in local again, and be able to "transmit" on all "frequencies" (chat rooms). Your scan signature will also go up a few points and your shields will shimmer slightly; kind of like when you turn on the microwave near an old school tv and get that snowy effect.
No changes will happen to the cloak itself. You will still be completely invisible and untargetable. There will be no doofy scan probes or decloaking devices that will completely negate cloaking all together. You wil simply be SLIGHTLY shiny for a few seconds while you call in your buddies.
This will make it so that a cloaker could be POTENTIALLY scanned down if he were stupid enough to leave his "radio" on too long, and in the case of the [red]"Oh my GOD it's an AFK CLOAKER (oh boohoo)...[/red]
Seeing as how AFK means... AWAY FROM THE FU**ING KEYBOARD DIP SH**!!!...
Which means they can't hurt anyone even themselves no matter how you say it or look at it...
AFK cloaker "problem" solved because you don't even know they are there (because they really aren't anyway) because you can't see them on local until they turn on their comms system again to call their buddies in to bust you up. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 02:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:Ok your idea has been used a thousand times. So once again... no.  Try this. Your cloak is something designed to bend light around you so you look like you are invisible. Light is energy. Radio waves are also energy. SO WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH WOULD YOU KEEP YOUR F***ING COMMS RADIO ON WHEN YOU'RE CLOAKED?!?!? In the military we call it noise and light discipline.Removing local would be a bad idea. But you know how when you jump into a new system you are already temp cloaked? Well when you move or sit there too long or turn on your own cloak, you are visible. When you are cloaked you should disappear from local. When you are uncloaked you show back up on local. Even for that brief second while transitioning between temp cloak and your cloak. This presents another problem though. Now you have a whole bunch of people cloaked up in local and noone is on local. You have no idea anyone is there. Hmm...
Eh... where's the problem? This is only based on a small part if my idea, allow me to reiterate.
1. When you cloak, you're removed from local. You simply no longer show up in local, period. 2. When you cloak, you also lose the ability to use local. You can't see who's in local at all. 3. When you uncloak, to minimize the boost this could have to cyno's (simply appear from nowhere and light one off...), add a 30 or 60 second delay to being able to fire off a cyno.
You're close to stealing my idea, but missed a bit of it.  Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 14:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
I see there is a lot of emotion against cloakers circling around.
On the idea to simply remove the cloaker from local. While this appears to be a solution against cloakers, the one with the cyno in the Haven (or similar) waiting afk for a ship won't be affected. Basically any cloaker aiming for destruction/interruption instead of intel doesn't really care about local. And in worst case even an intel cloaker could simply decloak, screenshot, recloak every minute and he has all the intel he wants. I don't think this would solve any issue except for making intel cloaking slightly more annoying.
@SGT FUNYOUN: I don't see why in a fictional game something should be technically impossible. I don't think something like "ionized Particles" can be send throughout a solar system anyways, but Eve is fiction and if CCP wants, they can just invent a fictional device that can just do exactly that.
In general my idea did not aim for making cloaking impossible or severely disrupt it, but to have a tool against those who are cloaking afk and only those. I am completely fine (in terms of game mechanics) if an active player scouts through a system cloaked and probably even hot-drops me with a cyno. The 24/7 afk cloaker however ruins the motivation for new 0.0 players to stay there as the gain in terms of ISK is only slightly better (unless you are in a really lucrative system, but you probably won't get that the first time you go to 0.0), but the risk is far greater.
Now while new players need to learn pvp and need to learn how to defend against "reds" jumping in and causing havoc, there is nothing that can be actively done against an afk cloaker. And until he takes the bait, the whole system cannot be used for anything. And honestly: not everyone has the time to play Eve 10h a day just to clear their 0.0 space of cloakers with a bait. And if you are lucky to actually catch them, there is a good chance that the next afk cloaker will be in your system the next day. |

Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
66
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 14:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just stop posting. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 15:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:I see there is a lot of emotion against cloakers circling around.
On the idea to simply remove the cloaker from local. While this appears to be a solution against cloakers, the one with the cyno in the Haven (or similar) waiting afk for a ship won't be affected. Basically any cloaker aiming for destruction/interruption instead of intel doesn't really care about local. And in worst case even an intel cloaker could simply decloak, screenshot, recloak every minute and he has all the intel he wants. I don't think this would solve any issue except for making intel cloaking slightly more annoying.
You missed the part about the delay in being able to light a cyno when uncloaking. Say the guy in the Haven uncloaks. If you're not botting, or maybe even if you are, you now have perhaps a 30 second or so delay before he can light the cyno. How you chose to react or defend against it at that point is up to you, but you have time.
Raw Matters wrote: I don't think...
This has been established. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Hoodlums Associates
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 19:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hmmm. So your griping about the cyno timer huh? Got a better idea. How about you learn to look around and have team of battleships like everyone else to come in and stomp whatever pops through that hole.
The point of a cloak is surprise attack and stealth. A delay in anything would totally negate the whole COV ERT OPERATIONS system.
so no.
You are once again...
wrong.
Now go back to playing WOW. |

Veronica Kerrigan
Hand Of Midas F0RCEFUL ENTRY
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.17 05:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:Technical mumbo Jumbo I don't want to fully quote.
Actually, comms in eve are done through paired atoms, meaning they communicate directly to the concord database that administers communications. That is why you can see everyone in local, because it is a list that concord keeps on every system at all times. |

Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.18 12:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
As most of the arguments against my idea have now turned into personal insults, I take this as a sign that my idea probably isn't that bad after all.
Thanks for the feedback! |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
198
|
Posted - 2011.09.18 12:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:there is nothing that can be actively done against an afk cloaker Seems appropriate since they can't actively do anything to you.
Your idea is bad for a very simple reason: it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist (or, if you like, you're trying to fix a problem within you by GÇ£fixingGÇ¥ someone else). GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.19 16:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
:supported: OP except the cooldown seems a bit lengthy. :shrug: other posts about keeping it simple have a good point.
All strategies have a counter to them, but are the counters to afk cloaked-pilots actually feasible? Something one player can use to either find the afk cloaking pilot, or even avoid discovery all together?
Meaning, any targets the afk cloaker looks for use something to make themselves somehow invisible/cloaked/undetectable. Those targets that do not would be easier to kill and more likely to die. Does that make sense? |

Kanexus
Degenerate Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.20 06:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
eve is trying to hard to explain why things work...in other words being too realistic (if that is possible)
just make cloak have time limit...like 20 mins and you have another meter that is slowly decreasing.. and cloaking and uncloaking make it take time like 30 secs if you uncloak and try to recloak....would give people enough time to try to find you at least |

Saphyrie
Nefantar Expeditionary Force
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.22 20:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Quote:1. When you cloak, you're removed from local. You simply no longer show up in local, period.
I am afraid I fail to see how making it easier for cloakers and their black ops buddies to prey on defenseless targets is going to make things better. |

shadowace00007
Beyond The Gates Tri Sol Syndicate
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.22 20:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
*Normal troll speak*
-1 You don't fix what is not broken. It ends up like my old Tv. broken and useless.
Born Amarrian Raised Minmatar. |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.22 21:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:I see there is a lot of emotion against cloakers circling around.
Emotional response = uneducated knee jerk reaction.
Quote:On the idea to simply remove the cloaker from local. While this appears to be a solution against cloakers, the one with the cyno in the Haven (or similar) waiting afk for a ship won't be affected. Basically any cloaker aiming for destruction/interruption instead of intel doesn't really care about local. And in worst case even an intel cloaker could simply decloak, screenshot, recloak every minute and he has all the intel he wants. I don't think this would solve any issue except for making intel cloaking slightly more annoying.
what? where's the problem here? there is no issue in this anywhere. I beg you to remember we're not trying to "combat cloaking". the subject is all those afkers .... I see no reason why anyone should be able to scan down a cloaked vessel.. or why we need a captcha or pos module decloak on cue nerf to cloaking when AFK cloaking is about someone not playing the game.. yes removal from local does resolve the issue. plus it makes cloaking what it should have been in the beginning, complete stealth.. no free local intel. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.22 21:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:Quote:1. When you cloak, you're removed from local. You simply no longer show up in local, period. I am afraid I fail to see how making it easier for cloakers and their black ops buddies to prey on defenseless targets is going to make things better.
no more emotional reactions in forums about afk cloakers! they won't see them.. and as far and making things "easier for the cloaker" remember that no cloak local make things harder for the cloaked ganker as well. since he doesn't know who is cloaked and sitting waiting to help set a trap for him. the bottom line is you can do nothing while cloaked but watch... to do anything active you have to decloak and deal with time delays... even setting out probe (which can't be cloaked) to scan for targets requires decloak, and then the probes are a dead giveaway someone is serach for you.
Removing cloaked from local is the best idea all the way around. The alternative idea that is next nearest is "do nothing". [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

Sonya Hyde
Tribal Mist
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 01:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Without a doubt afk cloakers can be the worse type of player in the game. And yes, many people are consantly trown off by a 24/7 cloaker that does nothing more than stay cloaked within your system for 3 weeks.
1. I believe that something has to be done to remove theior ability to be a non-active pilot. It is simply idiotic to sit in someone elses sytem for a week without even moving your ship. I see the point of reducing the effectiveness of military and industrial levels of a system. 2. Sitting in a system for a week (or longer) is too much. That's what lowsec is for. Camp a gate and go for the freighters carrying the big goods. Or venturing into nullsec for a rorq kill. Sitting in one place has to stop unless you are active. 3. I see nothing wrong at all with making a pilot more active. A module or even an I-HUB upgrade would be the best solution.
I like this idea. Nerf or not. If you're not active you should at least make the pilot become uncloaked for 5-10 minutes for every hour that they use cloak. Something to insure that a pilot is actually using the account and not wasting others time that would otherwise be used in a much more constructive manner. You still have the ability to pirate all you want but 24/7, 7 days a week is a bit too much.
|

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 02:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sonya Hyde wrote:Without a doubt afk cloakers can be the worse type of player in the game. And yes, many people are consantly trown off by a 24/7 cloaker that does nothing more than stay cloaked within your system for 3 weeks.
1. I believe that something has to be done to remove theior ability to be a non-active pilot. It is simply idiotic to sit in someone elses sytem for a week without even moving your ship. I see the point of reducing the effectiveness of military and industrial levels of a system. 2. Sitting in a system for a week (or longer) is too much. That's what lowsec is for. Camp a gate and go for the freighters carrying the big goods. Or venturing into nullsec for a rorq kill. Sitting in one place has to stop unless you are active. 3. I see nothing wrong at all with making a pilot more active. A module or even an I-HUB upgrade would be the best solution.
I like this idea. Nerf or not. If you're not active you should at least make the pilot become uncloaked for 5-10 minutes for every hour that they use cloak. Something to insure that a pilot is actually using the account and not wasting others time that would otherwise be used in a much more constructive manner. You still have the ability to pirate all you want but 24/7, 7 days a week is a bit too much.
Every time you're docked up in a station and afk I can't do anything about it. I can't get the kill, I never know when or if you'll undock. They need something to ejects people from stations that have been afk for too long. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 11:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Saphyrie wrote:The reason people cant stand it, is because ONE bozo can effectively shut down an entire system to mining/plex running by remaining in the system cloaked. All he has to do is kill one guy and then just stay there. No one will go out because you cant tell where he is, if he's afk or not. Sounds like your system does not have enough pilots with the balls to be in low/zero sec.
Saphyrie wrote:It's not fair that one pilot NOT EVEN PLAYING THE FRICKING GAME can shut down an entire star system with his presense. Haha, maybe you should get your mum to send him an evemail to tell him to stop!
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |

Caldari Citizen20090217
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 18:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Crappy idea, breaks cloaks.
Simplest "fix" to the afk cloaker... have them disappear from local when they cloak. Also have then be unable to see local when cloaked... no free system-wide intel
Finally, have a 30 second or so delay before you can lite a cyno when decloaking.
Bam. Simple, effective, makes cloaks more true and intel more active. Send isk.
This tbh. CCP Implement uncloak cyno delay please.
Saphyrie wrote:I am afraid I fail to see how making it easier for cloakers and their black ops buddies to prey on defenseless targets is going to make things better.
Read the part about cyno delay. This makes it harder for bridged recons/t3 to gank hulks. |

Solinuas
Beyond Evil and Good
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 19:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Well you guys are all talking about nullsec, however its just as common in highsec, and prolly even more irritating, so to get a good solution it needs to work in all sec, what needs to happen is that after an hour of continuous cloak, your module turns off, and i sort of agree with the no local, i think they should still have local but cant d-scan, as one would assume that scanning while cloaked would be fairly obvious, but remaining connected to the subspace network wouldnt, as far as i know eves comns are a quantum teleportation thing I.E. not affected by cloaking, warping etc, theoreticaly it shouldnt even be affected by WH space but thats off topic now |

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.23 22:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:If you're not active you should at least make the pilot become uncloaked for 5-10 minutes for every hour that they use cloak. Something to insure that a pilot is actually using the account and not wasting others time that would otherwise be used in a much more constructive manner.
This is a horrible idea. 5-10 minutes as a time? Have you never tried to survive a wormhole collapse? 5-10 minutes of manditory decloak is a death sentence.. you are clearly off your rocker.
Even if you are just suggesting a penalty for continus use whats to stop anyone from creating a bot to decloak for a few seconds then reclock before the hour is up. This would be nothing but a nerf to cause trouble for non-afk cloaking while the afk would continue as always.
Removing cloaked from local to end afk presence is the best solution.
Quote:Without a doubt afk cloakers can be the worse type of player in the game. And yes, many people are consantly trown off by a 24/7 cloaker that does nothing more than stay cloaked within your system for 3 weeks.
By the way, I disagree with this too. The worst would be gold spammers. You are also incorrect about your assertion that anyone stays cloaked for three weeks afk 24/7. Doesn't happen! Down Time every 23 hours requires a warm body to be in game at least long enough to warp to a location and recloak. The trouble with your comment is what I've always point to: it's not the afk thing that anybody is complaining about and wants the nerf for - it's cloaking in general and I vehemently disagree to this. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |

DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Removing cloaked from local to end afk presence is the best solution. All ships have the capability to fit a cloaking module, Prototype Cloaking Device I or similar cloak mods. I say fine, remove cloaked from local; everyone will fit a cloak mod with nothing in local to give intel. Next we will have Romulan Warbirds.
Though a bit delayed, map settings provides intel on those pve ships ratting... you know, the one that shows faction ships destroyed. But you knew that already. So let's pretend your afk local presence is removed while cloaked. To remain balanced, another feature should be changed to allow your potential target (that pve ratting battleship) the choice to cloak while in Cosmic Anomaly. You can still pick off targets that choose not to cloak, but that module can even the playing field. Not to make it too easy, you have to loot it off officer that spawns in anom.
|

SpaceSquirrels
Scordite Excavating Xenaphobe
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 02:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
get rid of local... You'll never know if they're afk and cloaked then. |

Solinuas
Beyond Evil and Good
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 03:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
well no just make it so every hour you will decloak, incurring the standard recloak timer, if you are actually AFK, you wont recloak, and will get scanned and blown apart, if you are just cloaking then its fine, if you are just sitting in a system cloaked on keyboard, thats game mechanics, so i count it as fair game.
I mean the topic is AFK cloakers, not normal cloaking issues |

DetKhord Saisio
Unchained Potential Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 03:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Solinuas wrote:I mean the topic is AFK cloakers, not normal cloaking issues Hmm, I miss something? I thought I covered that. If you were cloaked you turn the tables on the AFK cloakers, no? Instead of removing their cloak, make everybody cloaked.
|

Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.24 10:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Solinuas wrote:well no just make it so every hour you will decloak, incurring the standard recloak timer, if you are actually AFK, you wont recloak, and will get scanned and blown apart, if you are just cloaking then its fine, if you are just sitting in a system cloaked on keyboard, thats game mechanics, so i count it as fair game. If I am decloaking every 60 minutes, I write myself a script that cloakes me every 60 minutes and 30 seconds. The timing has to be very irregular otherwise it won't work.
|

Debir Achen
EVE University Ivy League
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 02:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Solinuas wrote:well no just make it so every hour you will decloak, incurring the standard recloak timer, if you are actually AFK, you wont recloak, and will get scanned and blown apart, if you are just cloaking then its fine, if you are just sitting in a system cloaked on keyboard, thats game mechanics, so i count it as fair game. If I am decloaking every 60 minutes, I write myself a script that cloakes me every 60 minutes and 30 seconds. The timing has to be very irregular otherwise it won't work. Then perhaps 5 minutes + 3 minutes per level of cloaking. After this period of time expires, your cloak has a non-cumulative 10% chance every 30 seconds of deactivating (with the normal 30 seconds reactivation timer). This forces cloakies to undergo a brief window where they can be D-Scanned every so often.
It will also protect against naive AFK cloaking, though not against AFK cloaking bots. Obvious workaround is warp - uncloak - recloak - end warp - warp somewhere new.
Another option is to give cloaked objects within (say) 1 mil km a 25% chance to show up on D-Scan as "cloaked object" (no range, no further info). Perhaps limit it to objects not on grid. A dedicated group of ships could eventually triangulate and decloak the cloaky. But can see multiple drawbacks to this idea when trying to provide a warp-in. |

ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nothing wrong with AFK cloakers. They only take the easy kills. I got a better, simpler solution.
Don't be an easy kill. Support Eve's own-áBattle-Recorder!
https://forums.eveonline.com/?g=posts&m=126987#post126987 |

Nariya Kentaya
Celestial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
ninjaholic wrote:Nothing wrong with AFK cloakers. They only take the easy kills. I got a better, simpler solution.
Don't be an easy kill.
i agree, lets not forget that most cov-ops ships have to sacrifice a high-slot for their cloak anyways, and on the frigs they become next to nothing in threat level against cruisers or bigger, hell, i watched a cloaker get wtfpwned by a hulk in null that was tanked with T2 drones...
basically the majority of epople that cry about AFK cloakers are just little kiddies that want to go afk while they mine in null-sec without any reds in system, and are too naive to fit a combat tank on their miner ships, or better yet, travel in groups so you have 3 or 4 hulks with T2 drones in the same belt.
i eman, you guys are in a BIG scary null-sec alliance, or even in wormholes, your really telling me there is NO ONE else in your corp who will come mine with you? i can tell you from trying, even 1 tanked retriever with T2 drones can be a threat to a cov-ops pilot whos active, so an AFK CLOAKER should be the elast of your concerns.
IMO it's more likley that that trusty cyno alt in your corp is actually the alt for the other team and will drop a cyno for his fleetmates from your red corp to drop a super on your belt for lols, and as we all know, thats not very common if your corp has security worth the sapce they blob to take. |

Snabbik Shigen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 03:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Leverage the existing "heat damage" that is already in game. As the cloaking device runs, it gradually builds up heat damage that has to be repaired periodically (i.e. Nanite Paste).
proto cloaks = 20-40 minutes before they burn out improved T2 cloaks = 30-60 minutes before they burn out covop cloaks = 45-90 minutes before they burn out
Use a skill or two that controls how fast it burns out (+5% longer duration per level, another for -5% heat damage per level).
Add high modules or rigs that can be fitted into slots that can absorb the heat damage to allow the cloak to run for up to 50% longer before it burns out. Now you have a choice of using your rigs for damage / tank or to increase your reliable cloaking time.
Now your cloaky folks can't stay cloaked for more then a few hours, at which point they're going to have to decloak in order to fix their cloaking device using Nanite Paste. |

Nariya Kentaya
Celestial Ascension
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 04:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Snabbik Shigen wrote:Leverage the existing "heat damage" that is already in game. As the cloaking device runs, it gradually builds up heat damage that has to be repaired periodically (i.e. Nanite Paste).
proto cloaks = 20-40 minutes before they burn out improved T2 cloaks = 30-60 minutes before they burn out covop cloaks = 45-90 minutes before they burn out
Use a skill or two that controls how fast it burns out (+5% longer duration per level, another for -5% heat damage per level).
Add high modules or rigs that can be fitted into slots that can absorb the heat damage to allow the cloak to run for up to 50% longer before it burns out. Now you have a choice of using your rigs for damage / tank or to increase your reliable cloaking time.
Now your cloaky folks can't stay cloaked for more then a few hours, at which point they're going to have to decloak in order to fix their cloaking device using Nanite Paste.
so absically what you want is for cloaking ships to only be able to cloak effectively if they sacrifice alot of their tank just to squeeze another hour maybe before they HAVE to either turn off their cloak or GTFO, or let their cloak burn out and GTFO form your system? a cloaked ship has only 1 of 2 purposes 1) gathering intel, this takes hours upon hours of observation to see who does what when, because you have to make sure you cover multiple TZ groups (americans, euros, russkis, aussies) 2) ambushes, and really, if there is only 1 in system he probably wont do much ambushing, and if hes in anything other then a well-fitted SB, hes harmless, and a SB just needs you to have 1 or 2 guys at a couple of the celestials so he will eventually get caught (or be proven truly afk, therefore, no threat)
again this approach comes to you being scared fo a red being able to sit in your system in a ship that has difficulty doing much on its own anyways, honestly, MAYBE if its a stealth bomber it could be a threat, but its your alliance skipping on security that let them get in their in the first place.
why dotn you get your CEO or alliance leader to put a little more effort in their gatecamps/border patrols and see if that doesnt cut down on the "afk cloaker" problem a little".
and on a previous note, anybody here that keeps whining about a cloaker shutting down a system for 24/7 weeks on end needs to get a clue, if they are sitting in ONE SYSTEM, UNDOCKED, for more then 3 hours, and no one is screaming about getting jumped, then they more then likely afk and therefore cannot do anything. |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 06:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Snabbik Shigen wrote:Leverage the existing "heat damage" that is already in game. As the cloaking device runs, it gradually builds up heat damage that has to be repaired periodically (i.e. Nanite Paste).
proto cloaks = 20-40 minutes before they burn out improved T2 cloaks = 30-60 minutes before they burn out covop cloaks = 45-90 minutes before they burn out
Use a skill or two that controls how fast it burns out (+5% longer duration per level, another for -5% heat damage per level).
Add high modules or rigs that can be fitted into slots that can absorb the heat damage to allow the cloak to run for up to 50% longer before it burns out. Now you have a choice of using your rigs for damage / tank or to increase your reliable cloaking time.
Now your cloaky folks can't stay cloaked for more then a few hours, at which point they're going to have to decloak in order to fix their cloaking device using Nanite Paste.
yeah and that all... WHY? Give a single reason, why people should not be allowed to idle in any part of the space as long as they like. |

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 13:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Some love em, some hate em with a passion, but cloakers in Eve serve a purpose: recon and surveillance. But they tend to turn into a hassle, namely 24/7 afk cloakers waiting on a 2nd account for a kill shot. I happen to love playing cloakers and hate those afk guys with a passion, which led me to think a bit about how the later ones could be dealt with without destroying the entire cloaking concept. Now that we have downtime anyways, I'd like to share these ideas.  There are several concepts on how to deal with cloakers, reaching from fuel-based ideas, special anti-cloaker probes to anti-cloaker doomsdays, expressing the various degrees of hate against them. Now Eve happens to be a place where possibilities are eventually exploited if they are just lucrative enough, and some players tend to have an impressive amount of money and nothing to spent it on. The same fact invalidates all ideas that are purely based on the availability of a certain thing to counter cloakers (e.g. very expensive items, fuel, upkeep, bling bling, you name it). On the other hand a cloaking device serves a purpose, that is being able to fly into dangerous space unharmed and stay there for a while. And whenever an alliance likes to spy on another alliance, this ability is extremely valuable. A solution therefore should not destroy this primary purpose of a cloaking device, otherwise it becomes completely pointless to even fit it. This rules out ideas that reliably negate cloaking devices like probes, anti-cloaking ships or the "Doomsday of Revelation" (tm). And finally Eve is a place where risk means potential fortune, therefore an active player taking a risk should have a chance to be awarded for it, or die a horrible death in a nifty explosion. In other words: the big issue is not the cloaking device or a player flying around cloaked, but the guy that sits 24/7 afk in his ship on a second account till there is an absolute guaranteed kill available, therefore negating the risk while annoying the hell out of everyone in the system. A solution therefore should target the afk guys and not the active players. Summarizing these ideas an anti-cloking mechanic needs to: - Must not destroy the primary purpose of cloaking.
- Be limited in use in general and not based on a ressource.
- Needs to work chance-based and never get close to 100%. Chance must be tied to the potential gain.
- Needs to give an active player a chance to counter the effect, while be a guaranteed death for the afk guy.
My final idea is this infrastructure upgrade: Luminescent Ionic upgade(Strategic upgrade module)Description: Activating this module will cause a spread of ionized particles to be send throughout the system which react with a noticeable glow if they come in contact with a ship's shield systems. This allows scanners and probes to be able to detect ships to a much higher degree and even allow to be able to detect cloaked ships. Effect: When activated gives a 10% increase to combat scan probe strength per strategic level of the system used in and causes all ships to glow (causing an effect like if a shield booster is used), therefore making it possible to scan for cloaked ships. The effect lasts for 10 minutes and can be reactivated only after a cooldown based on the strategic level of the system (12h/6h/4h/2h/1h). There is as well an upkeep cost associated with this upgrade and there will be no notification to ships if it is used. A cloaked ship under the effect of this upgrade will still be cloaked and cannot be targeted, but it will be visible and a bracket will be displayed around the ship if it is in visual range. Let's take two scenarios: 1. An afk player is on his safe-spot flying downwards at 300 m/s waiting for someone to wander in his trap. If the module is active the player probably won't notice the faint glow on his shields and continue to be afk. In the meantime other players have launched their scan probes, find the ship, warp to it, search around for the cloaky bracket,approach it and shoot it down. 2. An active player sits in his ship and does whatever an active cloaker does. When the upgrade is activated, the player might notice the glow of his shields and knows that there are now people scanning for him, he is practically visible. He can counter this by warping around safe-spots in hope that the scanning ships are not fast enough to find his safe-spots and wait for him the next time he warps to them. If the player doesn't notice the glow, he can still see the sudden increase of combat scanner probes on the scanner and react accordingly. If the player doesn't look at that and doesn't notice the glow, his last chance is to notice that someone just warped to his safe spot (usually a few km behind if the cloaky is moving) and approaches his location. If the player tries to leave the system, he still has to get through a potential gate camp that will see him and will be able to uncloak and then kill him. As this upgrade will only be available in inhabited systems and tied to the strategic level (thus how long it is inhabited), most parts of the universe will not tamper with cloakers, or in other words: only systems where recon is valuable will be dangerous. In addition a smart and active cloaker will know that there is such an upgrade and will be able to counter the effect, however it will be dangerous and some might explode when they warp on their safe-spot the second time and a fleet is already waiting for them. Once the effect wears off, the cloker has 50 minutes to do whatever he wants, till the hunt starts again. I think this will solve the issue with afk cloakers and give sovereignty holders a reasonable but fair tool against cloaking ships as well as some other strategic benefits.
TL;DR
Stop trying to suggest the nerfing of legitimate things. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

Mister Viceguy
Sinisenkuun Laguuni GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 11:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
I dont have proplems with anything, but if you looking for ideas heres one.
Just get us probes that can find clock ships. You can find you lovely afk clockers this way and active ones can still be effective if they stay on the move, they maybe know your in the area close by if they find you, but still cant find you. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
535
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 11:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mister Viceguy wrote:I dont have proplems with anything, but if you looking for ideas heres one.
Just get us probes that can find clock ships. You can find you lovely afk clockers this way and active ones can still be effective if they stay on the move, they maybe know your in the area close by if they find you, but still cant find you. Why? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Mister Viceguy
Sinisenkuun Laguuni GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 11:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Mister Viceguy wrote:I dont have proplems with anything, but if you looking for ideas heres one.
Just get us probes that can find clock ships. You can find you lovely afk clockers this way and active ones can still be effective if they stay on the move, they maybe know your in the area close by if they find you, but still cant find you. Why?
Just trowing my idea out, thats all. |

XXSketchxx
Remote Soviet Industries
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 12:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mister Viceguy wrote:I dont have proplems with anything, but if you looking for ideas heres one.
Just get us probes that can find clock ships. You can find you lovely afk clockers this way and active ones can still be effective if they stay on the move, they maybe know your in the area close by if they find you, but still cant find you.
I sure do want to find me some clock ships. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
141
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 12:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mister Viceguy wrote:Tippia wrote:Mister Viceguy wrote:I dont have proplems with anything, but if you looking for ideas heres one.
Just get us probes that can find clock ships. You can find you lovely afk clockers this way and active ones can still be effective if they stay on the move, they maybe know your in the area close by if they find you, but still cant find you. Why? Just trowing my idea out, thats all.
Next time aim for the garbage can. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 12:56:00 -
[59] - Quote
I think we should leave covops cloaks as they are but maybe change the other cloaks somewhat. For example, reduce the penalties of fitting them but add some way of finding them. As people have pointed out so many times ships with covops cloaks are more or less pre-nerfed. But what annoys me is that any other ship can use a prototype cloak to hide. And this ahs nothing to do with local but rather an annoying incident with a guy hiding an orca in my WH system and me not being able to do anything about it unless I would sit with combat probes around the system 23/7.
Maybe add the suggested probes that can find cloaked ships, but not ships with cov ops cloaks, and make it really hard or impossible to find anything small so that less threatening ships can still hide, but BCs, BSs and capitals wont be able to simply warp to a safe and cloak. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
141
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 13:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:I think we should leave covops cloaks as they are but maybe change the other cloaks somewhat. For example, reduce the penalties of fitting them but add some way of finding them. As people have pointed out so many times ships with covops cloaks are more or less pre-nerfed. But what annoys me is that any other ship can use a prototype cloak to hide. And this ahs nothing to do with local but rather an annoying incident with a guy hiding an orca in my WH system and me not being able to do anything about it unless I would sit with combat probes around the system 23/7.
Maybe add the suggested probes that can find cloaked ships, but not ships with cov ops cloaks, and make it really hard or impossible to find anything small so that less threatening ships can still hide, but BCs, BSs and capitals wont be able to simply warp to a safe and cloak.
No. Period.
If you actually live in a wormhole and can think beyond your own attempts to catch that orca you'll understand why. Cloaking, and being able to remain hidden while cloaked, is vital to wormhole survival (ask that orca pilot). Even cloaking a BS while rolling a hole is important.
So, no. Bad ideas, game breaking ideas, need to be allowed to rot. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 21:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
PLEAS CCP I HAV NO BALLS NERF EVERYTHING 2 MAEK ME HAV BALLZ!!11!!111111 |

Andy Landen
Cryptonym Sleepers Moon Warriors
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 23:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
The problem with afk cloaking is the cyno and covert cyno. Without those, I would have no issue with afk cloaking. An anti-cyno bubble module could protect ops from getting hotdropped right on top of them.
How do you conduct operations when any one threat can range from 0 (afk) to infinity (100 Titans through a cyno)? Troops cannot maintain 100% readiness for an unknown threat 24/7. With a cyno blocking ship which ALSO block cov cynos, I have no issue with afk cloakers because I can maintain fleets large enough to deal with them while my ops are in progress.
Anti-cloaking bubble upgrades on gates and stations are cool too.
I can also see alliance owned gate and station guns taking out reds. These upgrades help, protect, and encourage sovereignty. Helps an alliance defend their space against small numbers of intruders like checkpoints.
Some ideas for meeting the cyno threat aspect of the afk cloaky frustration. I like them, anyway. |

Haxin Gam
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 04:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
I really have to put in my two cents here. The problem for me, and most people i know who rat isn't exactly that the afk (or not) cloaky guy is there, its that anom's and the such do not require scanner probes to find. On top of that you run into the fact the stealth bombers can insta lock after-decloaking, tackle and pop a cyno (covert or not). at which point there is no feasible way to prevent that loss apart from not leaving the pos, or other safe zone.
that is the problem, not the cloaky, not the potential loss, not the fact that he is there. the fact that the only way to reduce his chances of success is to not be there yourself.
so, simple solution. once a player enters an anom that anom drops off the 100% system wide scanner thingy, meaning mr cloaky has to launch probes that mr carebear has to be watching his scanner for.
so bascly the way it works in WH's or hell make it so you have to launch probes to find anoms in the first place i don't really care.
so long as mr. carebear has some other line of defence other then oh hey there is a neut in local i guess I'm not doing anything today.
and the point of this is that it wont prevent that cloaky guy in local from being skury, its more that mr carebear now has a way to tell if he is being actively hunted by mr cloaky guy.
anyway that's my two cents, i think cloaks are fine the way they are, and the way they function, they make intel a little to easy but meh. The real problem stems in the lack of defenses a ratter has once that cloaky enters system. And the ease at which the cloaky can find his targets |

Haxin Gam
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 05:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:The problem with afk cloaking is the cyno and covert cyno. Without those, I would have no issue with afk cloaking. An anti-cyno bubble module could protect ops from getting hotdropped right on top of them.
How do you conduct operations when any one threat can range from 0 (afk) to infinity (100 Titans through a cyno)? Troops cannot maintain 100% readiness for an unknown threat 24/7. With a cyno blocking ship which ALSO block cov cynos, I have no issue with afk cloakers because I can maintain fleets large enough to deal with them while my ops are in progress.
Anti-cloaking bubble upgrades on gates and stations are cool too.
I can also see alliance owned gate and station guns taking out reds. These upgrades help, protect, and encourage sovereignty. Helps an alliance defend their space against small numbers of intruders like checkpoints.
Some ideas for meeting the cyno threat aspect of the afk cloaky frustration. I like them, anyway.
they have those, its called intel and a cyno jammer. I know the cyno jammer only block normal cynos, but more then likley if there is a blops gang around they have been sighted, and you should have seen a report about it in your intel channel. meaning watch out, mr cloaky guy probably has friends |

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 09:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
Andy Landen wrote:The problem with afk cloaking is the cyno and covert cyno. Without those, I would have no issue with afk cloaking. An anti-cyno bubble module could protect ops from getting hotdropped right on top of them. its not an issue but part of the game. Its working like that, yes.
Andy Landen wrote:How do you conduct operations when any one threat can range from 0 (afk) to infinity (100 Titans through a cyno)? Troops cannot maintain 100% readiness for an unknown threat 24/7. you're right, you cant really know, there is no way to find it out reliably. But why should be there one? If you live in a place full of such dangers, why not leave? Having a TCU in a system is not everything, this does not mean you control the space you live in. |

Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 10:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
"Remove cloaked from local"?
This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time and I'm a TEST pilot, I've heard a fair bunchGǪ How about your local turns blank when you cloak? While you are perfectly invisible and nothing can see you, why would you be entitled to see everything?
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
642
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 11:02:00 -
[67] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:"Remove cloaked from local"?
This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time and I'm a TEST pilot, I've heard a fair bunchGǪ How about your local turns blank when you cloak? While you are perfectly invisible and nothing can see you, why would you be entitled to see everything?
Have you read Ingvar Angst's idea? It's on p1.
If there is a AFK cloaking problem (and tbh, I have yet to see much in the way of an argument for this), his suggestion kills it and any surrounding issues dead in one blow. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 11:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Sphit Ker wrote:"Remove cloaked from local"?
This is the most asinine thing I've heard in a long time and I'm a TEST pilot, I've heard a fair bunchGǪ How about your local turns blank when you cloak? While you are perfectly invisible and nothing can see you, why would you be entitled to see everything?
Have you read Ingvar Angst's idea? It's on p1. If there is a AFK cloaking problem (and tbh, I have yet to see much in the way of an argument for this), his suggestion kills it and any surrounding issues dead in one blow.
Are you kidding? :) There's no way I've read through 4 pages of sperg. I skimmed it, found something I can pick on then hit buttan.
Ingvar Angst's poast is better then nothing, really, as a "fix" to afk cloakers. Turning invisible is also blinding. It's cool when it goes both ways.
---
A sovereignty module might be a way of balancing afk cloakers but unfortunately, because it's a sov upgrade, it cannot benefit everyone equally. Can't support that, as is. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
164
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 12:16:00 -
[69] - Quote
Keep also in mind that the "fix" needs to be limited in ripple effects. If you nerf cloaking to "fix" the alleged afk cloak issue in null, you break a necessary function in wormholes. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
55
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
One of the Devs just shut another thing about AFK cloaking due to the fact that spamming threads about it doesn't help.
QUIT ****ING CRYING
There is no ****ing reason to nerf cloaking for the 3289643287563487956384756874368th time.
"War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |

Andy Landen
Cryptonym Sleepers Moon Warriors
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Andy Landen wrote:The problem with afk cloaking is the cyno and covert cyno. Without those, I would have no issue with afk cloaking. An anti-cyno bubble module could protect ops from getting hotdropped right on top of them. its not an issue but part of the game. Its working like that, yes. Andy Landen wrote:How do you conduct operations when any one threat can range from 0 (afk) to infinity (100 Titans through a cyno)? Troops cannot maintain 100% readiness for an unknown threat 24/7. you're right, you cant really know, there is no way to find it out reliably. But why should be there one? If you live in a place full of such dangers, why not leave? Having a TCU in a system is not everything, this does not mean you control the space you live in. We know it is part of the game. These are proposals for CHANGE. You ask, why should be there one? To make the game better and better match normal warfare mechanics. During WWII, the invasion began in Normandy, not in Berlin, for a reason. Can you imagine if the allied force had been able to hotdrop from New York straight into Berlin in 7 seconds? I say, CCP should modify cynos so that they cannot be lit unless you are blue with the sov holder. Cannot lock onto the cyno unless you are blue with the sov holder. That's what I say CCP should do.
PS to Jack: People who want change are not always "crying" or "whining." Such accusations are simply lame methods of protecting mechanics that, most likely, you enjoy exploiting. |
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