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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:31:00 -
[1]
I have been playing for a while (off and on), and have been training almost exclusively in missiles. But I'd like to switch over to Hybrid weapons just because I solo a lot and think they look cooler.
I experimented yesterday, and the difference was night and day. Ships that I used to shred through like paper with missiles took forever to kill with Railguns. I could see them hitting, but the damage cumulative damage didn't seem to be near what I experienced with missiles.
Is this simply because I need to skill up with railguns or are missiles just that much better? I am thinking of buying a Rokh, but I don't want to drop $130 million on a ship that is way worse than what I have now.
I'm also concerned with tracking issues...I do have some skills that help with that (a residue from the days when I was flying Frigates and Cruisers), but it seems like Missiles are good at a much broader range than Hybrid weapons.
Is it common knowledge that missiles are better or is it just that I dont have the right skills/equipment?
I was using 250mm medium railguns with thorium ammo for the hybrids. I normally use heavy missiles or cruise missiles (type varies depending on what I'm fighting).
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knifee
Caldari
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:06:00 -
[2]
You cant expect to see the same amount of damage with hybrids if you haven't trained them to same level as your missiles.
If you commit to putting some SPs in to Hybrids you will find that the damage is just fine. |
Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:11:00 -
[3]
Missiles and turrets work in significantly different ways. They each have strengths and weaknesses. Which is preferable would depend greatly on how you plan to use them.
In your off and on playing, have you used missiles much during the past month: there have been significant changes made to missiles with the release of QR. They will now struggle with moving targets more than they have in the past.
Also concider your support skills. Bring the range of support skills to level 3 or higher makes a significant difference in how your weapons perform.
Do you have a sound understanding of how tracking works? To bring the full strength of your turrets to bare, your target must be moving with an angular velocity that is significantly less than the turrets tracking attribute. Unlike missiles, turrets can deal full strength damage to undersized targets, but it will require you to over-compensate with regards to tracking by more than 3x for each class stepping. |
SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:03:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Missiles and turrets work in significantly different ways. They each have strengths and weaknesses. Which is preferable would depend greatly on how you plan to use them.
Mostly I plan on mission soloing for now. I may switch to PvP later (at the moment, I cant consistently commit enough time to the game to make PvP worth while). The main reason I am switching simply that I find missiles kinda boring to watch. I like the "pew-pew" aspect of Hybrids. But also I'd like to diversify my skills a bit anyway, as I have been training only in missiles for a long time now.
Quote:
In your off and on playing, have you used missiles much during the past month: there have been significant changes made to missiles with the release of QR. They will now struggle with moving targets more than they have in the past.
Maybe it is more noticable in PvP...in PvE I have seen virtually no difference.
Quote:
Do you have a sound understanding of how tracking works?
Yes, I do. That was part of my concern. I was under the impression that missiles are far less affected by tracking than turrets.
That was part of why I switched to missiles in the first place...It seemed like a struggle to get turrets to hit with the same consistency as missiles.
Quote:
Unlike missiles, turrets can deal full strength damage to undersized targets
THAT is the kind of info I was looking for. Yes, I can see how that would be a big advantage. I didn't know that before.
Thats probably the best argument I have seen so far for Hybrids. It is really annoying to watch my cruise missiles hit a frigate and do 5 points of damage.
Quote:
but it will require you to over-compensate with regards to tracking by more than 3x for each class stepping.
Is it realistic to expect to be able to hit frigate-sized vessels with large hybrids if you have decent equipment and/or skills?
Quote:
You cant expect to see the same amount of damage with hybrids if you haven't trained them to same level as your missiles.
Yeah, I understand. I am just trying to determine if it is worth it to train Hybrids at all.
Quote:
If you commit to putting some SPs in to Hybrids you will find that the damage is just fine.
What is the range comparison like? Right now, I can hit out to about 75km with Cruise missiles with my current skills and equipment...is that doable at comparable damage with Hybrids?
Thats for the responses...that is useful information.
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Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:12:00 -
[5]
There's only one way to find out... FIIIIIIIGHT!
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:13:00 -
[6]
What are some good skills I could train to augment tracking?
I remember that when I had turrets before (I was using lasers at the time), I tried to augment them using equipment rather than skills. It helped a little, but I still could not hit stuff nearly with the same consistency as with missiles.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
Quote:
but it will require you to over-compensate with regards to tracking by more than 3x for each class stepping.
Is it realistic to expect to be able to hit frigate-sized vessels with large hybrids if you have decent equipment and/or skills?
The web bonus on the Kronos or Paladin can do that, but it will probably take 2x webs since the speed nerf.
For the most part, it is best to use your turrets for cruisers and larger targets, while letting your drones deal with the little stuff.
I haven't used hybrids much, but I did make the transition from missiles to lasers, and love them.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
What are some good skills I could train to augment tracking?
I find that piloting skill is one of the most important factors: turn on the angular velocity column for the overview and practice flying such that you can keep that favorable.
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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 20/01/2009 21:28:16
Quote:
For the most part, it is best to use your turrets for cruisers and larger targets, while letting your drones deal with the little stuff.
Oh yeah, I forgot about webs. That will work, though it'll eat into my shield tank setup.
Drones are a good solution (and I can use some tech 2 drones now), but I am concerned with small fast targets like Interceptors (or whatever the PvE equivalent is...I've seen some of them before).
But then again, I guess that doesn't matter, since even if I hit them with missiles, the missiles would do negligible damage anyway. So the end result is the same.
So if I use Hybrids at all on a Battleship, I should go ahead and mount large weapons only and use drones for small stuff. That makes sense.
Quote:
I haven't used hybrids much, but I did make the transition from missiles to lasers, and love them.
Lasers are my favorite weapons in the game. But the Caldari ships aren't optimized for them, so I gave up and went the missile route instead. Right now I have lasers and hybrids trained to about the same level.
Quote:
I find that piloting skill is one of the most important factors: turn on the angular velocity column for the overview and practice flying such that you can keep that favorable.
Good advice. I guess I just got lazy with missiles and haven't had to worry about piloting in a while. In missions I usually don't even move...in a (shield) rigged Battleship I figure my signature radius is already so large that it wont matter, and since I don't have to worry about tracking...
.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
Quote:
I haven't used hybrids much, but I did make the transition from missiles to lasers, and love them.
Lasers are my favorite weapons in the game. But the Caldari ships aren't optimized for them, so I gave up and went the missile route instead. Right now I have lasers and hybrids trained to about the same level.
Ya, I am Caldari too. Didn't stop me from training Amarr. As an extra option, the Nightmare takes in the best from both, it just costs a bit extra.
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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:44:00 -
[11]
Whats the going price for those? I would have to train up to Battleship level with the Amarr to be able to fly it though.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
I would have to train up to Battleship level with the Amarr to be able to fly it though.
Should only take a few days to get up to Battleship III, Battleship IV should be possible within a couple of weeks. Originally by: SadisticSavior
Whats the going price for those?
Several hundred million last time I checked, but you would need to check in-game contracts to see what they are going for right now. Many would claim that there is not a better mission running ship out there, but you would probably want to tinker with some cheeper Amarrian battleships before committing that much ISK to a single ship.
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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:32:00 -
[13]
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 20/01/2009 22:32:42
It may be a while then. I have been saving up for a Rokh at $135 million...but the Nightmare does look pretty cool. And would probably be pretty rare to see in highsec space, which is another reason to get it. I like that it seems to be Caldari/Amarr-hybrid technology too. I'm supposed to be a Caldari Nationalist, so I cant very well be seen using Amarr ships, heh heh
Right now I am running a Scorpion with a shield rig and heavy/cruise missiles. I know Ravens are supposed to be better, but I like all the medium slots for shield tanking, and I like the way it looks.
Thanks for the response. I had never heard of the Nightmare before now. I saw it is a Sansha faction ship...Is that available on the open market like other ships? Does it matter what my rating with the Sanshas is?
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Ki Tarra
Caldari
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SadisticSavior
I'm supposed to be a Caldari Nationalist, so I cant very well be seen using Amarr ships, heh heh
Sure you can. Amarr and Caldari are buddies. It is Gallente and Minmatar that you would stay away from based on role playing. Originally by: SadisticSavior
Thanks for the response. I had never heard of the Nightmare before now. I saw it is a Sansha faction ship...Is that available on the open market like other ships? Does it matter what my rating with the Sanshas is?
While not available on the open market, it is available via contracts. It is basicly like a CNR, except that it comes from the Sansha's faction instead of Caldari. Standings with Sansha's is irrelavant to your ability to fly the ship, it is only if you wanted to work directly for Sansha's and earn the LP to purchase it from them directly that would require good standings, but it is probably not worth the hassel unless you get in with which ever alliance is controlling Sansha's space.
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
Fist of Eargon
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Posted - 2009.01.21 00:27:00 -
[15]
Assault Launchers use light missiles, which will shred frigates... 
I like hybrids because they seem to do really well damage wise if you use the right ammo. Missiles take longer to fire (doesn't help that I rolled a mining/refining character, so my missile support sucks), but do a lot more damage, especially if you use the right type.
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"What can go wrong, will go wrong." |
Researchy Mcgee
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Posted - 2009.01.21 05:51:00 -
[16]
Bhaalgorn is King
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SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:46:00 -
[17]
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 21/01/2009 17:46:38
I bought the Rokh last night ($127,000,000), and I was mistaken anyway...I thought it had all turret hardpoints in it's 8 high slots, but it has 4 missile hardpoints as well. Which is cool, because I get the best of both worlds. Nice to know I wont have to completely abandon missiles if I don't want to.
The item listing on here says it has 8 turret hardpoints, but I could have sworn it said 4 when I was fitting it last night in-game. Man, I love the visual on this ship. Looks much better in-game than in the screenshots I saw. This thing actually looks like a battle ship (as opposed to my Scorpion, which looks like a Cruiser). Even though it has one less medium slot, after fitting my extenders my shield tank actually increased to over 25,000 from 22,500 on the Scorpion. And thats without the shield rig I have on the Scorpion. Nice.
Anyway, thank you for the responses. They did help a lot.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:29:00 -
[18]
935mil for a nightmare in jita right now. 830mil for a bpc.
for pure pve efficiency I would prefer the raven to rohk. but the rohk can be a bit of fun I guess, I loves me some guns (although I went the amarr route). |
SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:17:00 -
[19]
Yeah, the pew-pew factor is the main reason I got one. I still have the Scorpion...I might liquidate that for a Raven. I only really got it because I liked the way it looks and it was within my price range. I have yet to seriously use ECM at all.
Hold crap...800-900 million?? Yeah, thats a little out of my price range right now. But I might consider it a ways down the road. I really don't see myself flying anything larger than a Battleship, and I haven't seen any Faction or Tech 2 Battleships better than the Nightmare so far. That thing does look pretty cool.
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charming wanderer
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: charming wanderer on 21/01/2009 21:44:55
Cake or Pie... Which is better?
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