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Valeria	Posted - 2004.07.29 22:24:00 - [31] Is it just me or is the Caldari destroyer just a few boxes pieced together with some insets/bevels and without smoothingroups at that? Surely you guys can do better when you've had over a year to work on new ships. The two Gallente ones are goddamn nice though, atleast from that distance. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Valeria	Posted - 2004.07.29 22:24:00 - [32] Is it just me or is the Caldari destroyer just a few boxes pieced together with some insets/bevels and without smoothingroups at that? Surely you guys can do better when you've had over a year to work on new ships. The two Gallente ones are goddamn nice though, atleast from that distance. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Idara	Posted - 2004.07.29 22:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Valeria Is it just me or is the Caldari destroyer just a few boxes pieced together with some insets/bevels and without smoothingroups at that? Surely you guys can do better when you've had over a year to work on new ships. The two Gallente ones are goddamn nice though, atleast from that distance. I agree. The Caldari destroyer does look quite awful. I know most Caldari ships looks...stranger...than the other race's, but that ship is just bad. Idara Section Leader - Security & Warfare Member of Metatron Incorporated
Idara	Posted - 2004.07.29 22:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Valeria Is it just me or is the Caldari destroyer just a few boxes pieced together with some insets/bevels and without smoothingroups at that? Surely you guys can do better when you've had over a year to work on new ships. The two Gallente ones are goddamn nice though, atleast from that distance. I agree. The Caldari destroyer does look quite awful. I know most Caldari ships looks...stranger...than the other race's, but that ship is just bad. Idara Section Leader - Security & Warfare Member of Metatron Incorporated
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2004.07.29 23:34:00 - [35] Edited by: ClawHammer III on 29/07/2004 23:37:48 OMG! The Gallente battlecruiser looks fricken awesome! It kinda reminds me of the Mon Calamari cruisers from Star Wars. The other ships look quite good too. They all do a good job of maintaining the current design styles of the empires and reflect their personalities. :) I'd have to say my next favorite looking ship after the the Gallente battlecruiser would be the Amarr one.
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2004.07.29 23:34:00 - [36] Edited by: ClawHammer III on 29/07/2004 23:37:48 OMG! The Gallente battlecruiser looks fricken awesome! It kinda reminds me of the Mon Calamari cruisers from Star Wars. The other ships look quite good too. They all do a good job of maintaining the current design styles of the empires and reflect their personalities. :) I'd have to say my next favorite looking ship after the the Gallente battlecruiser would be the Amarr one.
Idara	Posted - 2004.07.29 23:39:00 - [37] Originally by: ClawHammer III Edited by: ClawHammer III on 29/07/2004 23:37:48 OMG! The Gallente battlecruiser looks fricken awesome! It kinda reminds me of the Mon Calamari cruisers from Star Wars. The other ships look quite good too. They all do a good job of maintaining the current design styles of the empires and reflect their personalities. :) I'd have to say my next favorite looking ship after the the Gallente battlecruiser would be the Amarr one. Idara nods in agreement Idara Section Leader - Security & Warfare Member of Metatron Incorporated
Idara	Posted - 2004.07.29 23:39:00 - [38] Originally by: ClawHammer III Edited by: ClawHammer III on 29/07/2004 23:37:48 OMG! The Gallente battlecruiser looks fricken awesome! It kinda reminds me of the Mon Calamari cruisers from Star Wars. The other ships look quite good too. They all do a good job of maintaining the current design styles of the empires and reflect their personalities. :) I'd have to say my next favorite looking ship after the the Gallente battlecruiser would be the Amarr one. Idara nods in agreement Idara Section Leader - Security & Warfare Member of Metatron Incorporated
Derran	Posted - 2004.07.30 00:33:00 - [39] Edited by: Derran on 30/07/2004 00:36:25 Umm.. is it just me or is there no Caldari Battlecruiser shown? And boy do I love the look of these ships. Considering the descriptions of the ships, I am predicting that the Destroyer will require the appropriate race frigate skill at level 5 and the battlecruisers, of course, requiring cruiser level 5. Glad I trained it up to 5 now.
Derran	Posted - 2004.07.30 00:33:00 - [40] Edited by: Derran on 30/07/2004 00:36:25 Umm.. is it just me or is there no Caldari Battlecruiser shown? And boy do I love the look of these ships. Considering the descriptions of the ships, I am predicting that the Destroyer will require the appropriate race frigate skill at level 5 and the battlecruisers, of course, requiring cruiser level 5. Glad I trained it up to 5 now.
Aleis	Posted - 2004.07.30 02:42:00 - [41] Well the mintar battle cruiser looks like a metal space fish with giant gills :À/ Hope it looks better flying around or moves fast enough to make up for it
Aleis	Posted - 2004.07.30 02:42:00 - [42] Well the mintar battle cruiser looks like a metal space fish with giant gills :À/ Hope it looks better flying around or moves fast enough to make up for it
meowcat	Posted - 2004.07.30 09:53:00 - [43] still no link to "new environments" come on, sort it out!!! ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
meowcat	Posted - 2004.07.30 09:53:00 - [44] still no link to "new environments" come on, sort it out!!! ~~~~)\~~~~~\o/~~~~ yeah but no but yeah but no but
Oveur	Posted - 2004.07.30 11:37:00 - [45] Originally by: MOOstradamus Market changes ... Care to elaborate? _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Oveur	Posted - 2004.07.30 11:37:00 - [46] Originally by: MOOstradamus Market changes ... Care to elaborate? _____________________________ I say hey sky, s'other say I won say, I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Xirae	Posted - 2004.07.30 12:05:00 - [47] Looking sweet! Cant wait to get some screens of the new environments, ice fields and super massive asteroid fields sound cool. Keep up the good work guys
Xirae	Posted - 2004.07.30 12:05:00 - [48] Looking sweet! Cant wait to get some screens of the new environments, ice fields and super massive asteroid fields sound cool. Keep up the good work guys
GreyMana	Posted - 2004.07.30 13:44:00 - [49] Maybe I missed the description of the industrial complexes before, but giving out much minerals/ore via fighting might be more lucrative than mining them. Especially if those complexes can be camped.
GreyMana	Posted - 2004.07.30 13:44:00 - [50] Maybe I missed the description of the industrial complexes before, but giving out much minerals/ore via fighting might be more lucrative than mining them. Especially if those complexes can be camped.
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2004.07.30 20:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: MOOstradamus Market changes ... Care to elaborate? I think the market changes are good except for the skill-based limits. I think everyone should have equal access to the market and it seams kinda weird and unrealistic that a skill would determine that. Is there any particular reason why you decided to go with skill based limits?
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2004.07.30 20:28:00 - [52] Originally by: Oveur Originally by: MOOstradamus Market changes ... Care to elaborate? I think the market changes are good except for the skill-based limits. I think everyone should have equal access to the market and it seams kinda weird and unrealistic that a skill would determine that. Is there any particular reason why you decided to go with skill based limits?
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2004.07.30 22:53:00 - [53] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 30/07/2004 22:56:48 Quote: Care to elaborate? Players will have a fixed maximum number of active orders (regardless of regions). The ceiling will be governed by skills. Why do this Limit too high= pointless, too low= frustrating. When placing a bid order (buying stuff), the order amount will be put aside (in escrow) while the order is active. This basically prevents trading on margin. Who do this This will only hinder the poor/newbie and merely annoy the hell out of the rich/experienced. I hope also the use of the word 'escrow' (in current EVE terms) doesn't mean buy/sell orders are non-cancellable ... A market tax will be levied on all orders (both bids and asks) entered in a marketplace. This tax will be a fixed percentage (1% for now) of the order value, but will be affected by standings. Fine if we're going to have taxes then where are StarGate Tolls, CONCORD Fines for breaking the law (in particular illegal combat), Docking Fees, Mining Licenses & Hangar Storage Fees to name just a few Why is the 'trader' being targeted specifically Affected by what standings - with buyer/seller, station owner where trade is taking place or sovereignty of space Please explain ... In a given region you can modify any open order that you have in same region. Skill based range restrictions will apply. Is their a modification fee Can I alter order size or just price & expiry date Quotes will make more use of jump distance Please explain this ... Finally none of the above details how Escrow abuse is going to be reduced. I didn't see any mention of its charge being increased either ... Whatever the eventual outcome and final Shiva implementation I will adapt & prosper (prices will rise a bit ... big deal !! ), however after the first/brief teaser glimpse my overall impression of the market changes = MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2004.07.30 22:53:00 - [54] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 30/07/2004 22:56:48 Quote: Care to elaborate? Players will have a fixed maximum number of active orders (regardless of regions). The ceiling will be governed by skills. Why do this Limit too high= pointless, too low= frustrating. When placing a bid order (buying stuff), the order amount will be put aside (in escrow) while the order is active. This basically prevents trading on margin. Who do this This will only hinder the poor/newbie and merely annoy the hell out of the rich/experienced. I hope also the use of the word 'escrow' (in current EVE terms) doesn't mean buy/sell orders are non-cancellable ... A market tax will be levied on all orders (both bids and asks) entered in a marketplace. This tax will be a fixed percentage (1% for now) of the order value, but will be affected by standings. Fine if we're going to have taxes then where are StarGate Tolls, CONCORD Fines for breaking the law (in particular illegal combat), Docking Fees, Mining Licenses & Hangar Storage Fees to name just a few Why is the 'trader' being targeted specifically Affected by what standings - with buyer/seller, station owner where trade is taking place or sovereignty of space Please explain ... In a given region you can modify any open order that you have in same region. Skill based range restrictions will apply. Is their a modification fee Can I alter order size or just price & expiry date Quotes will make more use of jump distance Please explain this ... Finally none of the above details how Escrow abuse is going to be reduced. I didn't see any mention of its charge being increased either ... Whatever the eventual outcome and final Shiva implementation I will adapt & prosper (prices will rise a bit ... big deal !! ), however after the first/brief teaser glimpse my overall impression of the market changes = MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
Hakera	Posted - 2004.07.30 23:42:00 - [55] Edited by: Hakera on 30/07/2004 23:47:18 with MOO on this, they are just nerfs, I mean you practically killed the mkt already with castor, not exactly 'shiva features' are they? If you take a 1% tax on all trades, then you'll kill any normal trading that is left, trading on a margin will be dead and the only thing left will be player to player trade matching. Im all for isk sinks, but the average margin out there is not even a 1% for most items. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.07.30 23:42:00 - [56] Edited by: Hakera on 30/07/2004 23:47:18 with MOO on this, they are just nerfs, I mean you practically killed the mkt already with castor, not exactly 'shiva features' are they? If you take a 1% tax on all trades, then you'll kill any normal trading that is left, trading on a margin will be dead and the only thing left will be player to player trade matching. Im all for isk sinks, but the average margin out there is not even a 1% for most items. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Haunty Moto	Posted - 2004.07.31 03:50:00 - [57] Hey, how come on the shiva ships page it says "You are not your ship." there? Isn't that one pirate corp's slogan or something?
Haunty Moto	Posted - 2004.07.31 03:50:00 - [58] Hey, how come on the shiva ships page it says "You are not your ship." there? Isn't that one pirate corp's slogan or something?
Jahbulon	Posted - 2004.07.31 12:33:00 - [59] Here I am again for another round of comments about the proposed market changes. Some of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them are terrible, and I'm baffled why they're on the drawing board, to be honest. Why are we introducing constraints? Is there a reason? Like there's too many orders and the servers aren't coping? Is the general consensus amongst players that the market is too 'free' and needs to be contrained by new taxes and restrictions? I don't understand why we're having new constraints added. Just add new 'better' things, don't make existing things worse. Seeing as we're discussing this in an adult fashion, here are my questions: Quote: In a given region you can remote sell any item from your asset list - Does this "any item" actually mean any item, including named loot and other items not currently available on the market, or kust standard market kit? Quote: Skill based range restrictions will apply. - fair enough - it's a new feature and a new way to introduce new skills. But hopefully not millions of skillpoints worth of skills to be able to do it. Quote: Players will have a fixed maximum number of active orders (regardless of regions). The ceiling will be governed by skills. - This presumably include both buy and sell orders collectively, yes? I really don't like this idea, because there already is a 'skill' involved - working out the best places and prices to make trading work. Not to mention the time involved. What happens to existing orders that I have in place when this gets implemented? Are all orders cancelled so that we all start again from a level playing field? If the base level amount of orders you can have is something like 100, rising to 1000 with skills, then this is probably OK - I'll learn the skill and deal with it. If it's something crap like 10 with a max of 50, then you've just mega-nerfed the game for virtually everyone involved in buying minerals, trading, building and so on. Please have a sensible number of minimum orders. Please. Quote: When placing a bid order (buying stuff), the order amount will be put aside (in escrow) while the order is active. This basically prevents trading on margin. - This is probably the single worse idea of the lot. What is wrong with trading on margin, if I can be bothered to do it? Why do I have to put my cash into escrow, rather than use some RL skill in juggling things? As things stand now, if I get it wrong and run out of cash, I get hit by a whopping fine and have to pay it before I can re-enter the market. It's not like it's a massive inconvenience for the seller, is it? And what happens to all the buy orders I might already have in the system? Do they get cancelled? Please don't implement this change. Quote: A market tax will be levied on all orders (both bids and asks) entered in a marketplace. - Why? Is this being added as another money sink? Margins are already low without being made lower. Does the tax apply at the point you place the order, or when it is fulfilled? Please think again about this one. Quote: A transaction tax will be levied on all successful matches, and shall be paid by the seller - So, in effect, people selling stuff on the market get hit by TWO taxes - one to place the sell order, and another when the stuff actually sells? Terrible idea. If you're gonna have a tax, just have one tax, not two. In general: - There's nothing here at all about escrow, and possible improvements to. - Again, and I know I keep banging on about this, are you planning on doing anything about the increasingly comical NPC trade goods market? We should either have a proper NPC trade goods market, or do away with it altogether. If we're keeping it, massively increase the volumes of goods supplied, and the associated demand. At the moment they're a joke. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Orestes, EVE Lead Forum Moderator Market people are strange. Fighting is so much more straightforward.
Jahbulon	Posted - 2004.07.31 12:33:00 - [60] Here I am again for another round of comments about the proposed market changes. Some of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them are terrible, and I'm baffled why they're on the drawing board, to be honest. Why are we introducing constraints? Is there a reason? Like there's too many orders and the servers aren't coping? Is the general consensus amongst players that the market is too 'free' and needs to be contrained by new taxes and restrictions? I don't understand why we're having new constraints added. Just add new 'better' things, don't make existing things worse. Seeing as we're discussing this in an adult fashion, here are my questions: Quote: In a given region you can remote sell any item from your asset list - Does this "any item" actually mean any item, including named loot and other items not currently available on the market, or kust standard market kit? Quote: Skill based range restrictions will apply. - fair enough - it's a new feature and a new way to introduce new skills. But hopefully not millions of skillpoints worth of skills to be able to do it. Quote: Players will have a fixed maximum number of active orders (regardless of regions). The ceiling will be governed by skills. - This presumably include both buy and sell orders collectively, yes? I really don't like this idea, because there already is a 'skill' involved - working out the best places and prices to make trading work. Not to mention the time involved. What happens to existing orders that I have in place when this gets implemented? Are all orders cancelled so that we all start again from a level playing field? If the base level amount of orders you can have is something like 100, rising to 1000 with skills, then this is probably OK - I'll learn the skill and deal with it. If it's something crap like 10 with a max of 50, then you've just mega-nerfed the game for virtually everyone involved in buying minerals, trading, building and so on. Please have a sensible number of minimum orders. Please. Quote: When placing a bid order (buying stuff), the order amount will be put aside (in escrow) while the order is active. This basically prevents trading on margin. - This is probably the single worse idea of the lot. What is wrong with trading on margin, if I can be bothered to do it? Why do I have to put my cash into escrow, rather than use some RL skill in juggling things? As things stand now, if I get it wrong and run out of cash, I get hit by a whopping fine and have to pay it before I can re-enter the market. It's not like it's a massive inconvenience for the seller, is it? And what happens to all the buy orders I might already have in the system? Do they get cancelled? Please don't implement this change. Quote: A market tax will be levied on all orders (both bids and asks) entered in a marketplace. - Why? Is this being added as another money sink? Margins are already low without being made lower. Does the tax apply at the point you place the order, or when it is fulfilled? Please think again about this one. Quote: A transaction tax will be levied on all successful matches, and shall be paid by the seller - So, in effect, people selling stuff on the market get hit by TWO taxes - one to place the sell order, and another when the stuff actually sells? Terrible idea. If you're gonna have a tax, just have one tax, not two. In general: - There's nothing here at all about escrow, and possible improvements to. - Again, and I know I keep banging on about this, are you planning on doing anything about the increasingly comical NPC trade goods market? We should either have a proper NPC trade goods market, or do away with it altogether. If we're keeping it, massively increase the volumes of goods supplied, and the associated demand. At the moment they're a joke. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Orestes, EVE Lead Forum Moderator Market people are strange. Fighting is so much more straightforward.

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