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TriDane Gallente Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.01.23 11:51:00 - [1] I cant think of any alliances out there that are currently controlling 0.0 space without joining a powerbloc. Is it impossible to claim non NPC 0.0 regions without joining one of the powerblocs just now? Was it Triumverate that were the last alliacne to control space in 0.0 without joining a powerbloc? If the game HAS come to only being able to own 0.0 space in NON npc controlled regions i really feel there nees to be some changes made. What happend to CCP's plans to add 'antiblob' features to the game? it seems to me theve added more and more pro blob featurs. But i guess there all in bob anyway. Do you guys think sov 3 is too easy to get? and a bit overpowerd? or is it just me. I mean having to fight with a non cap gang agianst a cap gang and deathstar POS and they get the advantage of setting up for you at the pod or gate for starters. Seems to me you'd need a pritty big blob to take on any sov 3 system. Flame away Expecting some of the children from PL's alts to hot drop this soon

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.01.23 11:55:00 - [2] I always use Powerbars. But maybe the effect isn't the same?

Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.23 11:58:00 - [3] It's too late fix now but what was needed was more moons. Not more dead moons, more moons with resources. In order to get one good moon you need to Sov out 6 systems to bridge in to it and make it a part of your ship assembly process. They got stingy on what became mainstay for EvE. T2. Just my view but for the size of EvE an alliance controlling 5 systems should be viewed as huge. Now that maps are made and the lines are drawn, how do you take it back and not rob people of alot of time and I mean ALOT of time?
Es' Tartu Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.01.23 12:00:00 - [4] sov 3 is easy to fix: 1. Disallow caps jumping out of cyno-jammed systems 2. Offline jump bridges in jammed systems.
Abduul Azeez Caldari THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2009.01.23 12:38:00 - [5] Originally by: TriDane Was it Triumverate that were the last alliacne to control space in 0.0 without joining a powerbloc? lolTRI TRI Standard Member: CCP plz make it so we don't have to have friends to hold space kthanks PS please bring back nano
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.23 13:04:00 - [6] Originally by: TriDane Edited by: TriDane on 23/01/2009 12:03:43 I cant think of any alliances out there that are currently controlling 0.0 space without joining a powerbloc. What, exactly, do you mean by power block? Surely, by definition, any alliance which is able to hold some 0.0 space is part of a power block. *Let My People Go*
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.23 13:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: TriDane Edited by: TriDane on 23/01/2009 12:03:43 I cant think of any alliances out there that are currently controlling 0.0 space without joining a powerbloc. What, exactly, do you mean by power block? Surely, by definition, any alliance which is able to hold some 0.0 space is part of a power block. Usually regarded as main alliance and its pets. I do this myself. It's actually not fair as any group of alliances that get along would be viewed as a power bloc but by example. UK are -A- pets? The part about the moons is still true. There wouldn't be any need to control whole regions if 3 or 4 systems supported the players in a 500 man alliance but, well.. they don't.
TriDane Gallente Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.01.23 13:22:00 - [8] Edited by: TriDane on 23/01/2009 13:25:51 Edited by: TriDane on 23/01/2009 13:24:12 Power Bloc in terms of NC up north anti Bob pacts down south with gewns Pl BOB and the GBC AAA i mean lets say i had a 1000 man alliance able to field 100 man bs fleet everynight. I'd prob still need to have other large friendly alliance's blue to me in order to gain space. Right? I mean not so long ago an alliacne like that could walk all over space claiming almost any region it wanted.. Times have changed and im dont think its to the better? Im getting kinda sick of this NC and BOB napfests that are creating allot of fun for few and a great deal of bordom for most.
LordSwift Unus Somnium Inc StarFleet Federation	Posted - 2009.01.23 13:36:00 - [9] i agree with you. It shouldnt be so hard for smaller alliances to get their foot in the door. Maybe they are going about it all wrong or maybe it is unbalenced. From my small experience even using diplomacy to get access and be set blue to a powerbloc is a pain in a ass. Even that comes with restrictions about how many POS you can place and so on. Some alliances are to big for their own good. But when the change happens (Hopefully with the planned Sov mechanics changes), this should take it away from the naff POS warfare and moons.
Aurevoir Connard	Posted - 2009.01.23 13:43:00 - [10] An alliance does not need to be part of a powerblock to own space. It is there it is available. However 0.0 whether you like it or not is extremely political. CCP did a great job in my opinion of making 0.0 similar to RL countries. You can be independant and not a pet, but you need to have friends and allies, NAP's Defense Pacts, trade aggreemants all fall under this. Just because you have a defense pact with someone does not make you a pet. SSI is learning this the hard way in Catch since you bring up UK and -A-, They claimed they wanted their own space and to be neutral to everyone. This does not work at all even in RL, (unless your switzerland but even they collaborated with the ****'s) So yes you can be independant but no you will not survive on your own without help and friends. SO find some unclaimed space and start diplomatic relations with this neiboring alliances.

Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.23 14:02:00 - [11] Edited by: Poreuomai on 23/01/2009 14:03:09 Here's the problem I see: If a system were easy enough to defend so that a small alliance could hold it, then a small alliance could also not attack and win such a system. If a system were easy enough to attack and win so that a small alliance could gain it, then a small alliance could also not defend and hold such a system.
Il Morte	Posted - 2009.01.23 14:22:00 - [12] /me coughs GMLH-k KW-IST
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.01.23 14:54:00 - [13] Penumbra + Daco are probably the closest thing, they have Blues etc but they aren't part of any powerbloc. I suspect a lot of that is because Cloud ring suffers from a bit of "Providence syndrome" eg the space isn't neccesarily worth taking.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.23 16:03:00 - [14] all the fights i have had under the GBC name , espically in the last few days where NC have tried to clame a few system that we have had pos's in have been lag fests BUt they also have been fun i enjoy epic large scale battles, and small speical op gangs, i love the thrill while i wait to be bridged into system wondering what hellish wonders await on the other side, will there be caps waiting for us, will there be nothing , are they planning a DD strike, will i be primried first , do i have the right ranged ammo loaded. I LOVE IT !!!!! click here for the EvELife blog
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.23 16:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Il Morte /me coughs GMLH-k KW-IST Do you see that as an example of a small alliance being able to hold space or not being able? *Let My People Go*
Norwood Franskly Minmatar Fleet of the Damned B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.01.23 16:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Armoured C all the fights i have had under the GBC name , espically in the last few days where NC have tried to clame a few system that we have had pos's in have been lag fests BUt they also have been fun Confirming this well other then the gbc part... When the servers actually hold up fleet fights are quite fun, last fortnight in and around Curse has definitely been epic. Personally I prefer the roaming style of combat up to a max fleet size of about 25 or so against similar numbers. That said maybe 25% of my kills have been in a fleet BS. My alt can fly cap ships now too (lol Naglfar ) so I'm looking forward to trying that side of pvp out too.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.23 16:23:00 - [17] Here's the thing. There are areas where it is possible for a small alliance to carve out some space. However, the thing is, very few empire alliances who want to go to 0.0 realize that it actually takes intelligent leadership, and drive. You have to try, actively take and hold systems, etc etc. Most alliances don't have these characteristics, so they become pets, or they try, fail, and whine on the forums. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Piratejoe Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:38:00 - [18] Edited by: Piratejoe on 23/01/2009 17:42:26 No, as things are setup in Eve right now it is Impossible too live in 0.0 as a space holding alliance without joining one of the current powerblocks. Yes you can try and yes you may take and hold a station or two but unless your in a powerblock, the second one of those powerblocks looks yourways and thinks hey thats a nice station, think I'll take it. Theirs nothing you can do about it. Take a look at the CAOD maps and look for small space holding alliances that were not part of any bloc and see how long they lasted, not long. 0.0 is Superblob vs Superblob atm, sad. IMO they need too add mechanics in the game that make holding 0.0 space possible for smaller alliances (IE: less then 500 members for example) and make it really hard for the superblobs too destroy them. Just a example off the top of my head, A POS supercannon that can attack system wide targets and insta pop BS or smaller targets and kill Caps in just a few shots. The supercannon will not target any friendly fleets with fleets under 100 and any enemy fleets under 100 and you are limited too only being able too deploy 1 superpos cannon in a system you hold a station and are then limited too being able too deploy say 10 regular POS's anywere or the cannon will go offline. I know just a silly example but CCP needs too add some game mechanics that allow small Alliance warfare in 0.0 without having too join one of the two powerblocs possible. As it is right now, 0.0 is owned by a few elite groups and if your not in one of those groups your sol. Edit: And Tri will say they were not a BoB pet and thats true too a extent but they were pretty much BoB leaning. Look were most of the Tri Corps are today for example (I could be wrong here but I think Im right atm.)
Luke Lor'aul Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:42:00 - [19] CVA isn't really a member of a powerbloc.. Sylph and the various other alliances don't do much for provi. So calling providence the provibloc is incorrect. I think CVA pretty much controls providence by themselves.
Piratejoe Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:48:00 - [20] Originally by: Luke Lor'aul CVA isn't really a member of a powerbloc.. Sylph and the various other alliances don't do much for provi. So calling providence the provibloc is incorrect. I think CVA pretty much controls providence by themselves. This is True but CVA has about 1100 members at the moment, the point being you need too be either super huge as a Alliance too hold any space in 0.0 or join a powerbloc. And Im intrested too see what happens too CVA if the Goons are driven out of the area. Currently all of BoB,AAA and companys attention are on the NC and Goons. Whats going too happen if the Goons are driven from the area and thiers no more locals too shoot at?

TriDane Gallente Celtic Anarchy Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:54:00 - [21] Totally agree CVA have things pritty peachy - whole of providence cyno jammed i believe? CVA are possibly the best alliance in game. no chest beating form warriors, no smack talkers. Very quick responce and a well defended region puts off any attacker. Yes they arnt in a power bloc but as soon as a power bloc does look at that region sideways and decides that there stations are worth the hardship of bashing through all those cyno jammed systems CVA will still need to join a power bloc or loose there space. I
Clever Drake Minmatar Apeshit Assassins	Posted - 2009.01.23 18:39:00 - [22] Give it some time. All things come to an end, even the power blocs. I think that it will take a lot of the smaller forces just getting brave and attacking a region on all fronts. A two front war is bad, a multi-sided war is impossible. Even the "power" blocs couldn't defend attacks against all their fronts.
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.23 19:31:00 - [23] Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 23/01/2009 19:37:47 Originally by: TriDane Totally agree CVA have things pritty peachy - whole of providence cyno jammed i believe? CVA are possibly the best alliance in game. no chest beating form warriors, no smack talkers. Very quick responce and a well defended region puts off any attacker. Very kind words, but untrue. CVA in many respects may be the best alliance in game - fun, honour, keeping egos in check etc... But trust me they are far from the most powerful normally having sub 100 pilots in alliance channel at any one time. In an age of 100 cap ships turning up to a fight, CVA even with all its friends would be massively outgunned. That is not to say CVA wouldn't put up a fight, as we will fight tooth and nail for Providence - that is a large part of reason we still hold the space. However a lot comes down to nobody else wanting the "crappiest 0.0 in game" enough to fight hard against us for it. I personally think that -A- and the other larger and more powerful entities like having CVA on their doorstep rather than more barren 0.0. We provide free training for their PVP squads and keep them on their toes like any good foe should. In terms of powerblocs I feel it has sadly become more of a game of banding together to field an overwhelming number of dreads FTW to protect or gain sovreignty. This will hopefully be addressed by CCP when they look at the sovereignty mechanics again. With sovreignty being tied to POS it is inevitable most caps will generally win the day, but I've a sneaky feeling it will all change at some point to something more along the lines of Factional warfare, with many smaller objectives than just POS being involved with Sov levels. I just hope that day is sooner than soon(tm). I guess I'm not really adding anything to the discussion with this post, but I hope you'll now all stop paddling the CVA boat and blowing wind in our sails for us...That is Hardin "H.Hornblower's" job alone!
Il Morte	Posted - 2009.01.23 19:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Poreuomai Originally by: Il Morte /me coughs GMLH-k KW-IST Do you see that as an example of a small alliance being able to hold space or not being able? I see that as a small alliance not being able to hold space or thinking it through. From what I gather SSI went wrong not because they were small or set up in an indefensible position, but they did not make friends with their neighbors properly. There is a difference between being a powerbloc and being an ally. You need to be friends with your neighbors to own space. it is that simple. No you may not set up shop own your space and tell everyone to got to jesus, You have to make friends with your neighbors, no who their enemies are, form ties, etc. Someone up above mentioned diplomacy, that is a major part of 0.0 Diplomacy. As for CVA and providence yes they have their pets and no you are not going to get space there cause they own pretty much all of it, or have given it to allies. However the collapse of IAC opened up space in many areas in catch that are either empty or -A- owns. That space may not be to hard to take over you just need to do your research and be smart. Know who lives there etc. By the way this thread fails as another I want Eve to be easy whine, and I cant believe I spent all this time answering this
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Ocih It's too late fix now but what was needed was more moons. Not more dead moons, more moons with resources. ( I ) There... you may have to dig for resources. Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:28:00 - [26] Piratejoe clearly has all the facts down pat. Not to mention is well informed and truly understands 0.0 politics. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:38:00 - [27] As is currently, holding 0.0 is favored by defense, as opposed to offense. What needs to be done is the opposite, make it so that being offensive favors held space. It's like 'campers' in a RTS game. All they do is sit at there base and for the most part, easily camp there position. It shouldn't be easier to defend than attack, in fact it should be the opposite. This would cause more chaos, wouldn't let people chill out and make titans like cookies, and promote pvp better. Naturally with making it more difficult to hold space, increase the rewards.
BruisedMoon Amarr Power Seed Enterprises VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Highwind Cid As is currently, holding 0.0 is favored by defense, as opposed to offense. What needs to be done is the opposite, make it so that being offensive favors held space. It's like 'campers' in a RTS game. All they do is sit at there base and for the most part, easily camp there position. It shouldn't be easier to defend than attack, in fact it should be the opposite. This would cause more chaos, wouldn't let people chill out and make titans like cookies, and promote pvp better. Naturally with making it more difficult to hold space, increase the rewards. Ahh, I lawled when I read this.. and to be fair, I am going to try to explain why I think your completely and utterly wrong. What your saying, is that attacking other peoples systems would promote keeping your own systems? In some terms a best offense is a good defense, however in this case I dont feel thats correct. You have to have a fine balance between offense and defense. First and formost, you have to understand when dealing with any alliance or corp worth its sault, if you take a roaming gang out and hit them hard.. you can expect them to return the favor. This is where offense is important for defense. However staying gone from yoru space all the time and being completely offensive is very bad, your just going to end up loosing your space while your not there. The problem with alot of the smaller alliances, is they move into 0.0 space, and think.. ohh lets just shoot everyone! So they see targets in local mobilize and good shoot them, instead of thinking it through.. Before you even move into 0.0 you should already have done several days of research in the area (enter covert ops) talking to surrounding alliances and corps and tried to get a few of them set blue to you. The more blue the less targets yes, but the more blue the easier you are going to have trying to keep and hold space. Taking 0.0 space and keeping it, is not necessarily as much about blobs, caps, and numbers as much as it is about having someone who is a smooth talker and thinks with something besides their targeting reticule.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.24 00:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Highwind Cid As is currently, holding 0.0 is favored by defense, as opposed to offense. What needs to be done is the opposite, make it so that being offensive favors held space. It's like 'campers' in a RTS game. All they do is sit at there base and for the most part, easily camp there position. It shouldn't be easier to defend than attack, in fact it should be the opposite. This would cause more chaos, wouldn't let people chill out and make titans like cookies, and promote pvp better. Naturally with making it more difficult to hold space, increase the rewards. it is in favour of the attacker, if you pos is being attacked you need to jump carriers in to rep it while have a force to shew off the invading forces, pos repping takes hours and the strong timers means that the enemy forces can regroup and come back aswell. if a attacking force incaps all the guns and modules and the pos itself you looking upto a good few hours depending on your repping force and if your trying to do that to stop you tower going into reinforce or defending it so you can rep it up to 50% sheild to put stront in it is a hard task. the sov combat system only defence is cyno jammers so that they have to bring BS to take a tower out but it is still favoured for the attacker. im being nice for a week, dont be to freaked out click here for the EvELife blog
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.24 01:20:00 - [30] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Piratejoe clearly has all the facts down pat. Not to mention is well informed and truly understands 0.0 politics. Provi is under CVA because it's the only NRDS space left and full of fat little neutrals for everyone to shoot at. It's the only 0.0 sec carebears will even consider entering. For -A- or BoB or even Goons to take Provi from the holders is a death sentence to alot of easy kills for the leet fleets of 0.0 sec. The whole SE corner of New Eden will become very boring if Provi falls under an NBSI alliance.



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