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The Old Bait & Switch Trick

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Lucia Wilber Minmatar The Steel Vipers	Posted - 2009.01.24 00:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 24/01/2009 00:33:50 Okay, I understand that it's a 'tactic' for griefers to head out into a belt with a newbie frigate, taunt someone into attacking them by can-flipping or some such, and then coming back in a bigger ship to kill the person. Yay, you win at EVE. And yes, it's easy to just say "Well, don't attack them if they go aggressive". Yeah, okay... I propose a simple solution. If you aggress someone by looting a can or wreck (and ONLY in this manner) and they return aggression by firing on you, the aggression should follow that SHIP, not that player. If you go swap ships, your right to attack them disappears. If they destroy your ship, your right to attack them disappears. People can still can flip, and can still steal from miners, but at least they can't pull a bait & switch anymore, which takes absolutely no creativity to pull off. Go ahead and flame me if you want, call me a 'carebear', whatever.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.01.24 00:42:00 - [2] Originally by: Lucia Wilber I propose a simple solution. To what problem? EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Firkragg Blue Labs Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.24 01:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Lucia Wilber I propose a simple solution. To what problem? Lol didnt you just complain about guys flagging in one ship then switching out to a bs in another thread? I do agree though theres no problem here. If a guy redocks assume hes switching ships and that your intel is wrong. If your pvping with rubbish intel then its your mistake.
Wensley Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.01.24 02:18:00 - [4] What benefit does this offer? Its up to you whether you shoot back at them. If you don't then you lose just the small amount of cargo they can fit in their hold, if you do then you risk your ship. Besides, everyone with any brains flips cans so that they have the aggression rights on your ship, not you on theirs, so what's the point? Wensley - The Tuskers
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2009.01.24 02:41:00 - [5] I endorse this suggestion. Anything that encourages people to shoot at my Velator is a good thing.
Ryoken McKeon	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:45:00 - [6] Don't shoot can flippers then? EVE is a harsh place with harsh rules, if you don't feel like dealing with griefers then I suggest you find another game; they're here to stay.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.24 05:50:00 - [7] Personally I flip the entire can so that when you take it I can warp 4 BS on top of you. Or I go out in a Raven and flip cans, this has never actually worked for me because it's stupid to do, but when the Raven is all I got in a system and I'm drunk I don't want to waste time and get a ship more suited for flipping and running.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.01.24 11:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Firkragg Lol didnt you just complain about guys flagging in one ship then switching out to a bs in another thread? Someone else complained about them switching ships, I complained about the lack of a dock or jump timer making them essentially invulnerable. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Cordarouy Pants	Posted - 2009.01.26 16:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Lucia Wilber I propose a simple solution. Stop using jet cans.
Romulae	Posted - 2009.01.26 16:22:00 - [10] this post is dumb first of all EVE Online caters to the hardcore amongst us...if you don't want to get killed, and don't want your stuff stolen, use a password protected container, or mine with some people than can fight back.
Mithos Victus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.01.26 17:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Mithos Victus on 26/01/2009 17:13:46 IMO people with flagged aggression should not be able to dock or go through gates in a ship for duration of the aggression, period. If they want to flip you, and you want to fire, you can both settle your differences with no docking games or fleeing through gates for the duration of the aggression timer and whoever lands in a pod can stick their tail between their legs and scurry off. You pop them but now you're half into structure and they go to dock in a pod and grab a new ship in system, warp to a safe, cloak up. Pretty easy.
Elena Morin'staal Minmatar Tau Online Explorator Corp	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:33:00 - [12] I don't see the problem, we had someone can flipping one of our newbs the other day, so we told our guy to shoot him. When we got gang aggro, we jumped him with 4 ships and blew him up. Lesson: If you must jetcan, do it with friends ready to jump the griefer.
Linnth Amarr Darkill Corp	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Lucia Wilber Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 24/01/2009 00:33:50 Okay, I understand that it's a 'tactic' for griefers to head out into a belt with a newbie frigate, taunt someone into attacking them by can-flipping or some such, and then coming back in a bigger ship to kill the person. Yay, you win at EVE. And yes, it's easy to just say "Well, don't attack them if they go aggressive". Yeah, okay... I propose a simple solution. If you aggress someone by looting a can or wreck (and ONLY in this manner) and they return aggression by firing on you, the aggression should follow that SHIP, not that player. If you go swap ships, your right to attack them disappears. If they destroy your ship, your right to attack them disappears. People can still can flip, and can still steal from miners, but at least they can't pull a bait & switch anymore, which takes absolutely no creativity to pull off. Go ahead and flame me if you want, call me a 'carebear', whatever. Carebear!
Sagacious Z Minmatar Eve University	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:28:00 - [14] Edited by: Sagacious Z on 01/02/2009 21:36:15 Originally by: Lucia Wilber I propose a simple solution. If you aggress someone by looting a can or wreck (and ONLY in this manner) and they return aggression by firing on you, the aggression should follow that SHIP, not that player. Good suggestion. In "real life", a pilot does not engage with an F-4, leave and go back to base, then come back with an F-15 to kill the enemy. Not all game mechanics can be based on real life, but the more that can should as realism makes any game like this more fun. However, I would disagree that "if they destroy your ship, your right to attack them disappears". To encourage player interaction, I don't like that. Anything that encourages fights and friendships is good for EVE; I am sure the game developers want as much player interaction as possible. And yes, I do believe this player should be allowed to get into a different ship and go back to attack the aggressor, for game play and player interaction reasons, but the can flipper can't go back and get a different ship. I suggest you take your suggestion to the "Features and Ideas" forum where CCP developers look more closely on suggestions for game play.
omfgGANK	Posted - 2009.02.09 19:20:00 - [15] Oh man dont get baited, whats the point in attacking him if you are not going to put a point on him? he's just going to warp back no matter what, and if you do put a point then u can kill him, and warp back yourself straight after.
Plinnk	Posted - 2009.02.09 19:55:00 - [16] Current system works fine, l2p.
opp order	Posted - 2009.02.09 20:28:00 - [17] I like this idea, now I can take ur jet can all 27k of veldspar, dock change ships and u cant shoot me. Cause if agro changes for one person its going to change for the other one to. Dude you are totally the smartest person EVER.....NOT.....Quit jetcan minning and get an alt with a hauler or a corp buddie.
snugglebutt GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.09 22:53:00 - [18] Edited by: snugglebutt on 09/02/2009 23:00:52 How about this? Get a combat char (main) and have him drop a jetcan. Have your miner (alt) mine into that can. Have your main sitting cloaked in the belt and wait for someone to flip the can, ???, profit. Even better would be to have the main in an offgrid safespot without a cloak (to lock fast) waiting, but the pirate might see that something is up on the directional scanner and think twice. Do what works for you. I'm totally running with this, have the miner use 5 Med ECM drones, have a scram (2pt) and web ready, lock the can flipper and warp your main in. The can flipper might panic when he sees the combat ship warp in and start targetting him or trying to get out at that point tackle / sic ECM drones with the alt. Then lock and business as usual with the main.
FOl2TY8 Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.09 23:08:00 - [19] Originally by: snugglebutt Edited by: snugglebutt on 09/02/2009 23:00:52 How about this? Get a combat char (main) and have him drop a jetcan. Have your miner (alt) mine into that can. Have your main sitting cloaked in the belt and wait for someone to flip the can, ???, profit. Even better would be to have the main in an offgrid safespot without a cloak (to lock fast) waiting, but the pirate might see that something is up on the directional scanner and think twice. Do what works for you. I am trying this tonight thanks man! I'm totally running with this, have the miner use 5 Med ECM drones, have a scram (2pt) and web ready, lock the can flipper and warp your main in. The can flipper might panic when he sees the combat ship warp in and start targetting him or trying to get out at that point tackle / sic ECM drones with the alt. Then lock and business as usual with the main.
Vampasha Space Piwates	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Elena Morin'staal I don't see the problem, we had someone can flipping one of our newbs the other day, so we told our guy to shoot him. When we got gang aggro, we jumped him with 4 ships and blew him up. Lesson: If you must jetcan, do it with friends ready to jump the griefer. Your gang can kill flipper?
MyHonIa Ghetto Tech Ghetto Security Services	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Elena Morin'staal I don't see the problem, we had someone can flipping one of our newbs the other day, so we told our guy to shoot him. When we got gang aggro, we jumped him with 4 ships and blew him up. Lesson: If you must jetcan, do it with friends ready to jump the griefer. The gang doesn't get aggro, the corp owning the can gets the aggro. Basicly do what the goonie suggested (OHHMYGAWD) and have a combat ship on standby and ECM drones on your ship. Or do a double switch on the bastard and switch to a combat ship yourself after blowing him up. The game mechanic as it is is just fine IMO as it gives the "attacked" the right to engage. In this case its two fold, the can flipper "attacks" your mining op via theft of ores, you in turn attack him making it possible for him to defend. Stuff happens, you adapt to the game or you perish, you dont try and get the game to adapt to you.
Aesheera Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:30:00 - [22] I propose a simpler, existing solution. Use secure cans. Dont shoot the obvious baiters. Easy huh? You deserve to get blown up if you fail to apply one of the two mentioned existing suggestions. I wish we had a forum section for whining. --
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.10 22:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Lucia Wilber I propose a simple solution. To what problem? This. -----------
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.02.10 23:16:00 - [24] Originally by: Cordarouy Pants Originally by: Lucia Wilber I propose a simple solution. Stop using jet cans. This. Eve is pvp, get used to it.
Dagda Morr Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:55:00 - [25] Edited by: Dagda Morr on 12/02/2009 13:56:13 If you have even half a brain or have been playing for longer than 2 weeks there is no reason to ever get killed by a can baiter. Screw changing the system - if we downgrade every single aspect of eve to avoid pvp then why play? Seriously, you might as well have an offline mining simulator. EVE is a game you play with other people (y'know - the whole MM part of MMO) removing any possible interaction is pointless. To summarise here are your options: Learn to play tip #1: Mine into a secure container Learn to play tip #2: Have a buddy/alt with a hauler Learn to play tip #3: Have a bunch of guards Learn to play tip #4: DO NOT TAKE THE FLIPPERS ORE BACK Learn to play tip #5: Go, pick up a comabt ship and fight Learn to play tip #5: DO NOT TAKE THE FLIPPERS ORE BACK! Since I'm guessing you're dumb enough to fall for can flipping I'll let you in on a secret - #5 is a repeat!
Tchulen	Posted - 2009.02.12 14:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Dagda Morr Learn to play tip #4: DO NOT TAKE THE FLIPPERS ORE BACK Learn to play tip #5: Go, pick up a comabt ship and fight Learn to play tip #6: DO NOT TAKE THE FLIPPERS ORE BACK! Since I'm guessing you're dumb enough to fall for can flipping I'll let you in on a secret - #6 is a repeat! Fixed
Dagda Morr Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.02.12 14:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Tchulen Originally by: Dagda Morr Learn to play tip #4: DO NOT TAKE THE FLIPPERS ORE BACK Learn to play tip #5: Go, pick up a comabt ship and fight Learn to play tip #6: DO NOT TAKE THE FLIPPERS ORE BACK! Since I'm guessing you're dumb enough to fall for can flipping I'll let you in on a secret - #6 is a repeat! Fixed God I'm dumb (though never fallen for canflipping - what does that tell you about how easy it is to avoid them!) Technically I did say it was a repeat though! :D
Tchulen	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:21:00 - [28] haha. Normally I'd be right there defending anyone who gets lambasted for being foolish but I've never understood how can flippers keep in business. Even when a complete n00b I didn't fall for it, it was so bleeding obvious and I'm not the most intelligent person out there. To the OP: the game doesn't need to change. People playing the game need to learn caution and how the game works. Unfortunately, everyone loses a few ships in the learning process. That doesn't mean the game needs to be changed, it means that you need to learn from your mistakes. Not trying to be mean but too many "NERF" cries and this will go the way of SWG.
Deyonius Rasium	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:27:00 - [29] Quote: I propose a simple solution. Stop mining.
SULAN BARHIR Gallente United League of Independents	Posted - 2009.02.13 03:07:00 - [30] I turned my 2nd Hulk in to a hauler. It can now do about 21k m3.

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