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Aluka 7th
65
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Posted - 2012.07.28 19:46:00 -
[61] - Quote
Reaper gI wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote: This right here is PRECISELY why those in industry need to KNOW THEIR MARKETS. Getting all associated skills to elitist levels (as a couple in this thread suggest) is really only necessary if you're building and selling competitively in hard markets like Rens or Jita. The simple fact is that a lot of still sells for better prices outside those major trade hubs. I'm still baffled why most people don't get it.
They may sell for better prices, but you need high volume as well. Why sell 10 mods per day at a 1mil profit each in a lvl 4 agent station when I could sell 60 at 200k profit each in a hub and not need to do the extra hauling. You can only sell in the smaller markets effectively with high trade skills (you need to place more orders+ be able to modify them at range) as you need to spread where your orders are as well as deal with the logistics of having your wares spread across more stations to cope with the lower volumes. As a missioner I'd by single mods (e.g. I'd just lost a drone or two due to disconnect) in station if I needed it, but I'd buy ships+ full fittings at the hub, as the savings and guaranteed stock are a huge convenience.
Well if you are starting in manufacturing then you are probably not high volume manufacturer so better profit per item is found in smaller hubs like mission or factional warfare or even nrds regions like Providence. When you increase volume and get skills higher for narrower margins, then you are ready for the big trade hubs. Ofc this is rule of thumb but it depends on item. |

Aluka 7th
65
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Posted - 2012.08.13 06:05:00 -
[62] - Quote
bumper for new readers  |

Atrum Skyhunter
Tis But A Scratch
9
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Posted - 2012.08.15 05:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
I'd like to note that without Production Efficiency at lvl 4 it's impossible to make a profit on anything T1, or at least any of the 200+ items I've looked at. Even with PE at 4, you're still looking at around only ~%20 profit listing at current sell prices, so any impressive ISK/hour is going to require a massive amount of start up capital. |

Adamina
Butter Sculptures
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 12:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Not true at all. I've been helping a friend do Tech 1 Manufacturer for the past couple weeks and he only has it at 4 and he is making profit. You only look at 200 items? Keep looking.
Aluka has mentioned a few in this very thread that are indeed (still) profitable. You do not need it at 5, does it help? Of course, but telling a new player they absolutely need it at 5 to make any profit is absorb. I've been here from 2003 almost solely manufacturing/inventing/r&d so I know this like the back of my hand. |

Aluka 7th
67
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Posted - 2012.08.17 07:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
Adamina wrote:Not true at all. I've been helping a friend do Tech 1 Manufacturer for the past couple weeks and he only has it at 4 and he is making profit. You only look at 200 items? Keep looking.
Aluka has mentioned a few in this very thread that are indeed (still) profitable. You do not need it at 5, does it help? Of course, but telling a new player they absolutely need it at 5 to make any profit is absorb. I've been here from 2003 almost solely manufacturing/inventing/r&d so I know this like the back of my hand.
Finally someone that is actually manufacturing items with "normal margin" and can confirm that there are profitable items in T1 production even with lower prod. eff.  I'm still looking @ items in my production queue that have >100% margin with bought raw materials and I'm like WHHAATTT?. |

Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
17
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Posted - 2012.08.17 14:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:Adamina wrote:Not true at all. I've been helping a friend do Tech 1 Manufacturer for the past couple weeks and he only has it at 4 and he is making profit. You only look at 200 items? Keep looking.
Aluka has mentioned a few in this very thread that are indeed (still) profitable. You do not need it at 5, does it help? Of course, but telling a new player they absolutely need it at 5 to make any profit is absorb. I've been here from 2003 almost solely manufacturing/inventing/r&d so I know this like the back of my hand. Finally someone that is actually manufacturing items with "normal margin" and can confirm that there are profitable items in T1 production even with lower prod. eff.  I'm still looking @ items in my production queue that have >100% margin with bought raw materials and I'm like WHHAATTT?.  For the more serious manufacturers, it's not about the margin though. It's about profit per hour. I'm not saying that the items you're building aren't good. But the fact is that you can build ammo with a profit margin of 100% and make 500k ISK per day, and then you can build something else with a profit margin of 2% and make 10 million per day instead. |

Aluka 7th
68
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Posted - 2012.08.17 14:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
Bluestream3 wrote:Aluka 7th wrote:Adamina wrote:Not true at all. I've been helping a friend do Tech 1 Manufacturer for the past couple weeks and he only has it at 4 and he is making profit. You only look at 200 items? Keep looking.
Aluka has mentioned a few in this very thread that are indeed (still) profitable. You do not need it at 5, does it help? Of course, but telling a new player they absolutely need it at 5 to make any profit is absorb. I've been here from 2003 almost solely manufacturing/inventing/r&d so I know this like the back of my hand. Finally someone that is actually manufacturing items with "normal margin" and can confirm that there are profitable items in T1 production even with lower prod. eff.  I'm still looking @ items in my production queue that have >100% margin with bought raw materials and I'm like WHHAATTT?.  For the more serious manufacturers, it's not about the margin though. It's about profit per hour. I'm not saying that the items you're building aren't good. But the fact is that you can build ammo with a profit margin of 100% and make 500k ISK per day, and then you can build something else with a profit margin of 2% and make 10 million per day instead.
Blue, production efficiency directly affects size of the margin and that is why I have only mentioned that in my last post. In original (first) post under "Very important detail" title, I go into details that profit per hour (or per day that I use) is more important than margin like you excellently pointed out. That is why skills that speed up production and P.E. research of BPO are important almost the same as M.E research and production eff.. But everyone focuses only on prod. eff. skill for some reason :)
P.S. My aim is >5-10mil/day per production line (depending on additional logistic work). |

Kaara Invokis
Cooking with Lightbulbs
15
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Posted - 2012.08.17 15:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:Blue, production efficiency directly affects size of the margin and that is why I have only mentioned that in my last post. In original (first) post under "Very important detail" title, I go into details that profit per hour (or per day that I use) is more important than margin like you excellently pointed out. That is why skills that speed up production and P.E. research of BPO are important almost the same as M.E research and production eff.. But everyone focuses only on prod. eff. skill for some reason :)
P.S. My aim is >5-10mil/day per production line (depending on additional logistic work).
Agreed immensely, PE is really undervalued. I usually manufacture in blocks of 24h, and 15 PE is the difference between say 9 or 10 drakes in that time block. If you're producing something with a high turnover rate, its defninitely worth taking the hit in tied up materials to make more money per line
OnTopic: I usually make around 15-25mil/day per production line (excluding trading profit) - the biggest issue is financing though. If you're able to put the money in and have the freightering ability, you can really make profit. Supplementing this with trading profit and you can make 40-50mil/day per line. |

Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
17
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 16:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:Blue, production efficiency directly affects size of the margin and that is why I have only mentioned that in my last post. In original (first) post under "Very important detail" title, I go into details that profit per hour (or per day that I use) is more important than margin like you excellently pointed out. That is why skills that speed up production and P.E. research of BPO are important almost the same as M.E research and production eff.. But everyone focuses only on prod. eff. skill for some reason :)
P.S. My aim is >5-10mil/day per production line (depending on additional logistic work). Oh, sorry. I didn't read the OP carefully enough.
I think 5-10 mil/day is alright as long as it's Jita (large volumes). With time you keep building a BPO collection and the more you have the more choices you have when deciding what to build, and that's good because that lets you catch more of the spikes. I remember back when I was selling rigs in Rens that there was a cycle with some rigs. They would spike up to about 100 mil/day, then would decay from there to being almost worthless to build. This is the best time to build them, because everyone else stops which makes them spike in value again as the demands aren't met, and the cycle starts over. Sometimes you could sell 3 days worth of production at about a 100 mil/day profit. This was a while ago though, I think it was the patch where they released tier 3 battlecruisers which increased demand for medium shield extenders suddenly. It has probably changed by now. |

Roman Fuego
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.08.18 03:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
I get a bit of a laugh at all the posts talking about how unprofitable T1 in jita is. I've been doing quite well for months doing primarily T1 in jita. Relisters are constantly buying up items and helping everyone make a nice profit. They key is that you need a good method for figuring out what to make.
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AnnaBelle Bartlet
AnnaBelle Farms
0
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Posted - 2012.08.26 23:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Thanks for posting this very informative guide. I'm currently mining/trading/missioning to build up some capital while acquiring suitable manufacturing skills and researching profitable opportunities.
The biggest problem I can see is lack of research/copy slots at NPC stations. I understand that there are a couple options - build a POS (too expensive for me), or join a manufacturing alliance. The second option seems reasonable to me, but I don't know what kind of questions to ask to find the right manufacturing alliance situation for me. Any suggestions?
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Elias Way
Really Big Corporation
0
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Posted - 2012.08.28 15:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
If you are just starting out, don't bother with BPOs. You can get a large variety of well researched BPC's via contracts, and the prices are pretty reasonable. That is what I have been doing. You can even get lucky and find a nicely researched BPO in contracts from time to time as well.
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John Cant
Disturbed Blood Astrometrics
0
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Posted - 2012.08.29 11:01:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'm heading back into manufacturing again and having to recreate my bpo collection following a WH disaster many moons ago. The key to my profitability at the moment is "run as many production lines as possible". Maximise the output you can as to profit from T1 you need to be able to very quickly produce in bulk to take advantage of market fluctuations.
%profit per item is all very well, but if you can't fill the demand then You'll miss the opportunities. I just shifted from one production line for my 30% profitable item to ten concurrent lines. It's small enough to move in bulk so I can quickly run off enough to keep pace with the demand, plus also enableing me to buy up surplus (still at a profit though) and ship it between trade hubs.
Finally, it's amazing how few people are prepared to travel to pick up a bargain. As I was "deadheading" past a FW system en route to pick up resources I took a (large) cargo hold full of shuttles and sold all on the FW hub market at 5x market value. Everyone there needed shuttles to let them go and spare ships, so I provided them....
JC. |

MushroomMushroom
Consolidated Sprocket
42
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Posted - 2012.08.29 14:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
This guide is really mistitled, its really a guide on how to merge trading, manufacturing, hauling, and market seeding into one venture without properly identifying profit centers.
If you want to get ahead, you need to understand and seperate your profit by category; your manufacturing profit is what you can make buying from a sell order, manufacturing, and selling to a buy order. All the rest is not actually manufacturing profit. If your making trade profit, it can often be more profitable to resell without manufacturing at all.
As for production efficiency 5, there are often products you can make at a manufacturing profit that do not require 5, but they are hard to find unless you have program doing it for you. The vast majority of products require 5 to make a respectable profit, and many require 5 + ME research. As an example, currently you can produce Cap 800 charges at a profit, buying minerals off sell orders in Jita, taking them to the nearest open factory slot, building the charges, and then selling the charges in Jita to a buy order, with production eff 4 it would turn a profit of 15mil/line/day till the current buy orders are cleared. |

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
43
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 02:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
If you have contacts with low/nullsec player corps with POS manufacturing (i.e. people who make T2 items) then you can arrange to be their supplier of the T1 base items that they will both require in abundance and probably don't want to bother making for themselves.
This is especially true of rigs, as one look at the market reflects the narrow group of people who actually even bother with producing them. So there is a market for those who buy salvage and produce rigs, and an even larger market for those who can produce rigs specifically for others to upgrade in T2 variants. You both profit. |

Aluka 7th
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
For supply of raw materials or just resale, it's smart to join "Bulk trade" mailing list. |

Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
98
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 15:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Atrum Skyhunter wrote:I'd like to note that without Production Efficiency at lvl 4 it's impossible to make a profit on anything T1, or at least any of the 200+ items I've looked at. Even with PE at 4, you're still looking at around only ~%20 profit listing at current sell prices, so any impressive ISK/hour is going to require a massive amount of start up capital.
This is patently false (unless you, for some reason, insist on selling in Jita, Amarr, or Dodixie). It's quite easy to make profit on a wide range of T1 items in markets where you don't have to slash prices to sell. As I said before, KNOW YOUR MARKETS. If anyone has trouble honestly understanding this concept, there are plenty of threads out there on it. If you want the Easy Button answer, start a new thread about such, and you're bound to get VERY helpful pointers on exactly how to find, analyze, and market your stuff. |

Aluka 7th
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.06 17:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ok, let me take one of the items I have suggested in this tread - Large remote Hull repair system I.
Building cost (ME9 BPO) is: less then 100k ISK with prod. eff. 5 less then 104k ISK with prod. eff. 4 Actually its less then 120k ISK with production eff 1. Lowest sell in Jita is 184k, Dodixie is 285k, Hek (bigger then Rens l8ly) 440k and in Amarr 450k.
Now advocates of "You need production eff. at 5" either want to discourage competition and younger players or are just too lazy to find stuff to manufacture with good margin/profit. Hell just check 30+ things I've linked in this tread for God sake 
|

Suni Khan
The Last Call. Black Core Alliance
8
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Posted - 2012.09.06 17:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Atrum Skyhunter wrote:I'd like to note that without Production Efficiency at lvl 4 it's impossible to make a profit on anything T1, or at least any of the 200+ items I've looked at. Even with PE at 4, you're still looking at around only ~%20 profit listing at current sell prices, so any impressive ISK/hour is going to require a massive amount of start up capital. This is patently false (unless you, for some reason, insist on selling in Jita, Amarr, or Dodixie). It's quite easy to make profit on a wide range of T1 items in markets where you don't have to slash prices to sell. As I said before, KNOW YOUR MARKETS. If anyone has trouble honestly understanding this concept, there are plenty of threads out there on it. If you want the Easy Button answer, start a new thread about such, and you're bound to get VERY helpful pointers on exactly how to find, analyze, and market your stuff.
I know what you are trying to say. But if I can't sell merlins for example with a profit in jita. but I can in amarr. Why would I bother producing them to sell instead of taking the short route and just buy them in jita and sell them in amarr.
Obviously it aint bad to expand were to sell. and if you can make profit on something in jita. but the profit is a lot higher somewere else. you cn obviously ship some goods out there and sell it there. but thats trading profit and not manufacturing profit.
also there are plenty of T1 items that have a profit margin at PE 3 or even lower escpecially if the BP you are using in researched to some degree.
I redownloaded EIH a week ago and forgot to put in my API. so everything was calculated as if I have 0 skill in anything. and even then it showed some slow moving items that have a profit on them. and MANY MANY were making only 2-5% loss. PE 3 or a researched BP would have fixed that |

Lambert Simnel
PWLS Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 05:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
MushroomMushroom wrote:If you want to get ahead, you need to understand and seperate your profit by category; your manufacturing profit is what you can make buying from a sell order, manufacturing, and selling to a buy order. All the rest is not actually manufacturing profit. If your making trade profit, it can often be more profitable to resell without manufacturing at all
But why would you do this?
- You should be buying minerals from your own buy order placed below sell price (or even better direct from a mining corporation at below 'buy' price).
- Manufacturing with the least cost possible (the ideal is PE5, a well researched blueprint and a POS, but as others have pointed out this isn't essential - it just maximises your profit)
- Then sell to a sell order (not a buy order) in a location that gives you a profit but also has consistently high volumes.
There are lots and lots of T1 items that are profitable you just need to do your homework. |

Aluka 7th
76
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 11:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Couple of Tech1 profitable items (today) in ISK per hour of manufacturing line:
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster Medium Ancillary Shield Booster Small Ancillary Shield Booster
Medium Pulse Laser Battery Deep Core Mining Laser I Warrior SW-300 Capital Energy Transfer Array I Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement I Garde I Valkyrie SW-600 Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing I
|

Fougerius
Industrial Blue Starfleet Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.09.20 13:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Thanks a lot for this post!
As a young manufacturer I started buying every BPO I could especially ship ones then I realised it was useless.... I'll go for your style :) I'm sure it will work out better. |

Aluka 7th
76
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Posted - 2012.09.20 13:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Thing is you have to guess flavor of the day. What is used and lost a lot. For example ancillary sh. boosters are fitted on everything these days so supply/demand meets at higher price which translates to high profitability. When CCP boosts T1 cruisers for winter expansion I'm guessing descent profit will be made on those hulls. Also it is good to follow training corps of big 0.0 alliances that live in high sec or just regular empire PvP ones like RvB. Supply their (new) locals with hulls, ammo, ..., and $$$ profit :) |

Aluka 7th
77
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 13:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
Couple of Tech1 profitable items (today) in ISK per hour of manufacturing line:
Gjallarhorn Judgement Caldari Control Tower Gallente Control Tower Covert Jump Portal Generator I Prototype Cloaking Device I Covert Cynosural Field Generator I Mobile Small Warp Disruptor I Garde I Warp Scrambling Battery
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Aluka 7th
78
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Posted - 2012.11.06 06:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
Interesting T1 items for nullsec alliances: Warp Disruption Field Generator I Sensor Booster I (raw mat. for t2 version) Prototype Cloaking Device I Interdiction Sphere Launcher I Cynosural Field Generator I Which makes sense because they are fitted on ships that are usual primary thus die fast and often (like dictors and HICs).
Of course these items currently also sell well: X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster Medium Ancillary Shield Booster Infrared XL Command Processor I POS towers Medium and small POS guns Data interfaces (all types)
Enjoy and get ready for moon probes/destroyers with new patch. Frig size modules will be in demand then :) |

Morbidibrom
Universal Might Monkey Circus
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 17:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Since I am new to manufacturing (wholesale trader / reseller mostly) I would like to know if its worth the time and effort to set up a POS. If it should be in high or low sec, or wormhole space ( for safety) and how that would affect manufacturing. Basically what are the great advantages of a POS over a station since you need to pay upfront costs and fuel, and how if effects profit margin. And are reactions worth it doing?
Also what are the main mission areas that would be good to sell manufactured stuff near (even though this is more of a shipping / trading profit matter)?
Would it be more worth while set up a manufacturing in an area you wish to sell ( ship in or buy minerals or ore locally ) and eliminate the need of shipping of finished products (from jita area) to a higher profit area? |

Aluka 7th
78
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 19:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Morbidibrom wrote:Since I am new to manufacturing (wholesale trader / reseller mostly) I would like to know if its worth the time and effort to set up a POS. If it should be in high or low sec, or wormhole space ( for safety) and how that would affect manufacturing. Basically what are the great advantages of a POS over a station since you need to pay upfront costs and fuel, and how if effects profit margin. And are reactions worth it doing?
Safety, lol. From all my first hand and second hand PvP exp. POS is everything but safe. Specially in WH :) With that being said lets do little math: 10 production lines in NPC station in highsec will cost you only 2.24mil for four weeks. Same number of production lines using POS will cost you from 75mil for small to 300mil in fuel for large tower (26880 blocks*11k ISK per block) + charters if in high sec for four weeks. And you have investment of modules and risk of loosing all and you have to refuel it.. maintenance work and all that..
tl:dr version.. use POS only for T3 production (which can be only done in POS), booster (drug) production, ME/invention research from NPC station by remotely using POSes research lab slot and be ready to defend it vs wardecs or WH roamers.
Morbidibrom wrote:Also what are the main mission areas that would be good to sell manufactured stuff near (even though this is more of a shipping / trading profit matter)?
There is a neat trick on Dotlan EVE map page. Go there, then click on region that interests you and then in new window where you see map of that region up on right says "sovereignty", click it and select "NPC kill (24h)"! Now behold you have colored heat map of all mission runner activity in last 24h for whole region at one glance.. With total number of NPC kills listed, you can easily find mission hubs and even follow when/if they change.
Morbidibrom wrote:Would it be more worth while set up a manufacturing in an area you wish to sell ( ship in or buy minerals or ore locally ) and eliminate the need of shipping of finished products (from jita area) to a higher profit area?
Only IF finished product is really big you should build locally and IF transport cost cuts too deep in your profit margin and IF demand for your product in that mission hub will keep your production going nonstop. Personally my production volume is far greater then any mission center can demand so I produce where raw mat. is cheap and ship the product where is needed.
Just add hauling cost to your cost and then do all other math. So for trade hub next to me, my manufacturing cost is lets say 1mil but for some other hub for same item I add transport cost so my "base" price is 1.2mil because 200k is transport cost. Ofc cheapest transport per item you will get if you can fill freighter to the brim because typically you pay hiring full freighter and not per m3 when using professional haulers like RED FROG freighter service.
Morbidibrom wrote:Any suggestions on making your spreadsheets which is essencial I've found? Is there someplace that you can get manufacturing minerals required list per item to copy / paste into them, or is there some manufacturing mineral checking program or something :P
Well I did my spreadsheet basically extracting from BPOs on market BUT I really recomend this: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/inventory.php?category_id=9 Here you will find perfect ME/ PE for all BPOs and if you click on BPO even more details about specific materials etc.. Also to get general idea of BPO profitability you should use: http://eveeye.com/profit.asp Where you get rough estimate of BPO profitability. |

Acid Kanshi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 08:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
You guys should check out - http://www.eve-cost.eu/calculator EVE-Cost is a manufacturing tool for EVE players. http://www.eve-cost.eu |

Aluka 7th
81
|
Posted - 2013.02.03 16:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Bump :)? |

Aldarr Mentakk
Mandalorian Acquisitions
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.04 08:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
This is very good I was making modules and ships at around 100k isk profit per unit but now that I'm getting the skills trained up that you described i'm seeing more profits every time a skill completes, specifically the production efficiency skill. Thanks! |
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