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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.26 04:08:00 -
[1]
Is there any reason why we have to download a special torrent program to download the file instead of simply using uTorrent/kTorrent? Is it because you come out with new client versions so often it isn't worth it? Signatures are annoying...kinda like me. |

Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2009.01.26 04:17:00 -
[2]
tbh why even bother with torrents? I get 800kb/s download off the site (and this has been with different computers, in different places over different internet connections). Are torrents really going to do better? |

Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.26 04:19:00 -
[3]
12Mb connection here, so, um yes. |

arthell
legion of qui Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.26 04:20:00 -
[4]
Also cheaper for them since you aren't downloading all of it off of their server. |

MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.26 05:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 26/01/2009 05:59:35
Originally by: arthell Also cheaper for them since you aren't downloading all of it off of their server.
Cue "Seth & Amy" So you think the bandwidth to download the client is anywhere near the bandwidth used to play the game? Really? Since the client changes on average what? Every 60 days? Versus the 40,000+ players *everyday*? Really?
MDD  |

Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.01.26 06:13:00 -
[6]
hummm since there is a tracker, i dont see why one shouldnt be able to use ¦torrent with one's own connection settings, dl priorities etc... no biggie, yet nor is a .torrent -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |

Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.26 06:34:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Qordel on 26/01/2009 06:36:03
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 26/01/2009 05:59:35
Originally by: arthell Also cheaper for them since you aren't downloading all of it off of their server.
Cue "Seth & Amy" So you think the bandwidth to download the client is anywhere near the bandwidth used to play the game? Really? Since the client changes on average what? Every 60 days? Versus the 40,000+ players *everyday*? Really?
MDD 
Someone correct me if my math is wrong, but doesn't 200,000 downloads * 800 MB == ~160TB?
At best there is an overall average of about 35,000 constant connections at all times 23x7. Doesn't 160TB/35,000 equal 4.57gb per month per connection? Divided by two (for sixty days as suggested in you example up above) that is still 2.25gb per averaged full time connection. That seems entirely reasonable for a constant connection to EVE.
By that estimation, the downloads would account for as much bandwidth every 60 days as EVE's bandwidth itself. Even if that many downloads occur only every six months (unlikely since many of us download many times) then you're talking about 27tb/mo and that still remains a HUGE portion of the bandwidth that EVE itself uses. If your downloads account for 25% or 50% of your entire bandwidth, wouldn't it be reasonable to find ways to reduce it?
Of course, I'm pulling all of these numbers out of my ass, because none of us know what the real numbers are to base this on. :) --
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Antimony Noske
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Posted - 2009.01.26 07:32:00 -
[8]
Having an actual torrent file does absolutely nothing to hurt eve. It's always nice to have alternative distribution methods if there's ever a problem.
That said, I did a quick look on some trackers, and none of the eve client torrents I saw had any seeds. So... |

Shakari Sween
Revengeance Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Antimony Noske Having an actual torrent file does absolutely nothing to hurt eve. It's always nice to have alternative distribution methods if there's ever a problem.
That said, I did a quick look on some trackers, and none of the eve client torrents I saw had any seeds. So...
I would think that its a security thing so the isk buyers cant upload dirty torrents with keylogers etc in them to get your details. Thats just my theory at least.
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Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shakari Sween
Originally by: Antimony Noske Having an actual torrent file does absolutely nothing to hurt eve. It's always nice to have alternative distribution methods if there's ever a problem.
That said, I did a quick look on some trackers, and none of the eve client torrents I saw had any seeds. So...
I would think that its a security thing so the isk buyers cant upload dirty torrents with keylogers etc in them to get your details. Thats just my theory at least.
Easily solved. They host the original (primary seeder) and provide a hash check of the file so you know whether you are using an authentic piece of software or if it has been altered. --
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Shakari Sween
Revengeance Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Qordel
Originally by: Shakari Sween
Originally by: Antimony Noske Having an actual torrent file does absolutely nothing to hurt eve. It's always nice to have alternative distribution methods if there's ever a problem.
That said, I did a quick look on some trackers, and none of the eve client torrents I saw had any seeds. So...
I would think that its a security thing so the isk buyers cant upload dirty torrents with keylogers etc in them to get your details. Thats just my theory at least.
Easily solved. They host the original (primary seeder) and provide a hash check of the file so you know whether you are using an authentic piece of software or if it has been altered.
not everyone is a torrent pro or even know what a hash is, its better to be safe than sorry is the philosophy they go with I think, specialy when isk farmers are involved.
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War Porcika
Serenity and Hungarian Operational Team
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Qordel If your downloads account for 25% or 50% of your entire bandwidth, wouldn't it be reasonable to find ways to reduce it?
Of course, I'm pulling all of these numbers out of my ass, because none of us know what the real numbers are to base this on. :)
I don't know why you assume that there is so many downloads. I play the game more than 3 years, and I have only downloaded the game once! Since that time the only downloads are the patches. Ant they are not that big...
A the problem with torrent is that you can not really guarantee that it's still the original game. Someone download a torrent assuming it's eve. The game is inside but it contains a keylogger.. The people won't check it if the CRC match or not, they are to lazy for that. |

Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Element 22 on 26/01/2009 09:10:51 Sure when you hypothetically download a game from a site, let's say ThePrivateersCove, yes, there is a chance that some misguided soul might have tried to put a trojan inside the package, but if you go to the official game website and download the file using their tracker then you can be pretty sure that it's official and without any trojans except for the ones CCP wants to be there.
Argueing that someone somewhere might download a version that has a Trojan is partly fear mongering because if CCP offered the torrent on their website then there would be no need to go anywhere else, and partly a valid concern because people are idiots and here in America we like to sue.
But other then that...
EDIT: noticed some mistake where words I typed that I thought simply didn't appear because I was 'focused' on the wrong text window actually appeared in other places in the text. Signatures are annoying...kinda like me. |

Nakuda
Gallente Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition
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Posted - 2009.01.26 10:17:00 -
[14]
.torrent files have the hash sums that are used for verification on the file itself. So if CCP themselfs provided the .torrent file, you could download it with no worries with normal torrent clients. If someone tried to send invalid or altered data the client would detect it and ignore it. So should be as safe as downloading directly from CCP. |

Shevar
Minmatar Target Practice incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.26 10:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shakari Sween
Originally by: Qordel
Originally by: Shakari Sween
Originally by: Antimony Noske Having an actual torrent file does absolutely nothing to hurt eve. It's always nice to have alternative distribution methods if there's ever a problem.
That said, I did a quick look on some trackers, and none of the eve client torrents I saw had any seeds. So...
I would think that its a security thing so the isk buyers cant upload dirty torrents with keylogers etc in them to get your details. Thats just my theory at least.
Easily solved. They host the original (primary seeder) and provide a hash check of the file so you know whether you are using an authentic piece of software or if it has been altered.
not everyone is a torrent pro or even know what a hash is, its better to be safe than sorry is the philosophy they go with I think, specialy when isk farmers are involved.
Well no way I am gonna use some crap in house .torrent executable which probably can't even have different port settings or proper upload speed throttling. The one blizzard uses is horrid as well and for each large patch I need to look for "hacked" .torrent files.
No .torrent file available means no torrent usage for me. |
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CCP Hypnotic

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Posted - 2009.01.26 10:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Element 22 Is there any reason why we have to download a special torrent program to download the file instead of simply using uTorrent/kTorrent? Is it because you come out with new client versions so often it isn't worth it?
The answer to this question is one simple thing. Quality of service. Those of you with torrent experience know what it's like to be getting very fast downloads when suddenly that one speedy seeder drops out. Or to locate that file you really wanted only to find it has zero seeds.
By using the bittorrent client that we currently have we can get around these quality issues by always using our http connection as a bandwidth backup, that so-called "Primary Seeder". For us this is better than having a real primary seeder since when you connect to our content delivery system you connect to the server closest to you, anywhere in the world.
This creates a best of both worlds situation for us at CCP. Maximum possible offload to other peers and guaranteed quality of service for our customers.
(Although, like you I miss the control and stats my own bittorrent client provides. We're working on that though.) |
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Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.26 11:34:00 -
[17]
\o/ Dev response!
Well, the creators of BitTorrent have been working on a new format that supposedly will be able to create priority based on geographical loctions or simply the number of node jumps away from each other. So if not with the current torrent, things are looking good for the future. Signatures are annoying...kinda like me. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.26 11:37:00 -
[18]
Not that I ever looked into CCP's BT thing... but since I assume CCP also provides the tracker or some type of peer info, they could easily just give a peer other peers from his own country or region.
Better yet, install a BT client on all CDN hosts 
Secure 3rd party service |
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Shevar
Minmatar Target Practice incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Hypnotic
Originally by: Element 22 Is there any reason why we have to download a special torrent program to download the file instead of simply using uTorrent/kTorrent? Is it because you come out with new client versions so often it isn't worth it?
The answer to this question is one simple thing. Quality of service. Those of you with torrent experience know what it's like to be getting very fast downloads when suddenly that one speedy seeder drops out. Or to locate that file you really wanted only to find it has zero seeds.
By using the bittorrent client that we currently have we can get around these quality issues by always using our http connection as a bandwidth backup, that so-called "Primary Seeder". For us this is better than having a real primary seeder since when you connect to our content delivery system you connect to the server closest to you, anywhere in the world.
This creates a best of both worlds situation for us at CCP. Maximum possible offload to other peers and guaranteed quality of service for our customers.
(Although, like you I miss the control and stats my own bittorrent client provides. We're working on that though.)
Well I can only talk about my experiences with the blizzard downloader (which also uses a HTTP connection as backup) and to put it simply I get better download speeds with a regular .torrent (which uses the same tracker and such) then using the blizzard downloader, mostly because I can't easily open any random port on my router since my inet connection is shared (i got a list of ports forwarded to my pc and even if I did these "miniclients" hog up my entire upload which then causes me to not even be able of properly connecting to other peers to request that client to send me a piece of the file).
At least provide the .torrent file besides the executable. Or even better as Chribba said install the torrent client on your own bandwidth systems you currently use to serve http access. |

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shakari Sween
Originally by: Qordel Easily solved. They host the original (primary seeder) and provide a hash check of the file so you know whether you are using an authentic piece of software or if it has been altered.
not everyone is a torrent pro or even know what a hash is, its better to be safe than sorry is the philosophy they go with I think, specialy when isk farmers are involved.
You don't need to know... The bittorrent specifications requires all clients to do hash checks on all pieces they receive. (Not just to ensure that local files are correct, but also that what they upload isn't corrupt)
Nothing you need to stress your mind with; as long as the torrent file is from CCP you're guaranteed to get correct data.
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Baline Aegis
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:28:00 -
[21]
What are the ports used by the CCP's bittorrent client ? (I don't know for other countries but in France, 90% of ppl have a router in front of their connection, so it could be cool if i could open the ports and benefit from the torrent thing :)
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:41:00 -
[22]
becuase ccp like to infect your pc with that dodgy dna malware.
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Skaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:58:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Skaz on 10/03/2009 18:59:24 Ok, this is ridiculous I'm on attempt number 3 and it keeps dropping me after a burst of "speed" at a miserable 51 Kb/s...
I'm getting annoyed over here, especially being in the same country as CCP isn't helping either...oh damn, their servers are in London.  - -
PINK PINK PINK PINK |

Nyveg
n0thing Inc. Ghostfleet
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:06:00 -
[24]
WTF Use torrent linked to an .exe!? No way in hell.
As no other way let's me download the client properly keep it so long.
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TheJay
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:07:00 -
[25]
Incredibly ****ing irritating.. I do so love to have every single bit of my upload used up whilst getting 200kb/sec download...
Why not put a patch file on one of the common game patch sites?
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:09:00 -
[26]
Seems I never get to go above 200kB/sec on the download tool CCP gives us. On regular torrents I have to limit the dl if I want to get that low  ---------------------------------- None of yet! |

Qordel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 26/01/2009 05:59:35
Originally by: arthell Also cheaper for them since you aren't downloading all of it off of their server.
Cue "Seth & Amy" So you think the bandwidth to download the client is anywhere near the bandwidth used to play the game? Really? Since the client changes on average what? Every 60 days? Versus the 40,000+ players *everyday*? Really?
MDD 
60 days? Try more like an entire year.
250,000 downloads of the 2.2 gigabyte client == 550 terabytes.
40,000 concurrent players running 23x7 would have to consume well over 1gb/mo each for an entire year.
So yes, everyone downloading the client TWICE per year would consume as much bandwidth as is probably used for playing in TWO years. And that's assuming the average constant connection uses about 1.2gb/mo of bandwidth, which is probably not horrendously off the mark. --
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Gadrin Demarr
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:39:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Gadrin Demarr on 10/03/2009 19:41:15
Originally by: CCP Hypnotic
The answer to this question is one simple thing. Quality of service. Those of you with torrent experience know what it's like to be getting very fast downloads when suddenly that one speedy seeder drops out. Or to locate that file you really wanted only to find it has zero seeds.
By using the bittorrent client that we currently have we can get around these quality issues by always using our http connection as a bandwidth backup, that so-called "Primary Seeder". For us this is better than having a real primary seeder since when you connect to our content delivery system you connect to the server closest to you, anywhere in the world.
This creates a best of both worlds situation for us at CCP. Maximum possible offload to other peers and guaranteed quality of service for our customers.
Gnnh! Well, I tried this bittorrent client which you offer last time and I'm not touching that piece of software again. You may want to inform the user that you actually install a fully fledged program on their system and rig it up to run in the background from then on even after reboot. I actually had problems getting rid of it last time.
If a user isn't able to handle my-torrent, then they seriously won't be able to find or uninstall your torrent client.
I'm downloading the old-fashioned way.
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Khlitouris RegusII
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva Seems I never get to go above 200kB/sec on the download tool CCP gives us. On regular torrents I have to limit the dl if I want to get that low 
Thats because the crappy prog ccp use maxes your upload effectively choking your download speed all thanks to that nasty dna virus in it. a .torrent file is all ccp need to make and let us use real torrent programs.
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Notnearly OnEnough
Minmatar JumpDrive Inc
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:44:00 -
[30]
Hi
Have you tried the links at http://EvEvault.ign.com ?
check the EVE General Board there
regards |
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