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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Don ZOLA
Caldari Vale Tudo.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:43:00 -
[1]
The current way of draw is only good for "weaker" teams. This way they get the chance to win over other "weak" team and continue forward in the competition.
If you check any rl torunament, be it sports or games you will see that the team with best results always meets team with the worst results in next match.
This way we have a big chance that some of the 1st match winning teams will not get to next stage simply becouse they had hard time with some other winners. But one of two weakest teams will have a chance to pass since they will have also weak oponent.
I agree this way gives a chance to "weaker" teams but i dont agree it should be given. Simple as that, give the chance to better teams to compete. Weak should go out asap anyway.
The way it should be done is this : #1 Vs #64; #2 Vs #63; #3 Vs #62 etc...imho... OR make it totally random, just be sure there is no repeating matches...
flame on! :D
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Tnam
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tnam on 26/01/2009 09:18:03 I don't agree. If you went with your system, then there would be excessive luck in the draw for the first match if you were facing a weak team (if there are weak teams). Then you would in theory get a very easy second match and walk through to the finals very well. Likewise if you were drawn facing a strong team in the first match and you lost, you would be faced with another very hard fight potentially in the second.
The system as it is works very well, it means if you take an easy win in the first match you are still well placed to qualify for finals as a result but not if you get totally whacked by a good team (where presumably such a team would have whacked you in the finals as well).
I know there is more to it this and you can't really definitively say that 1 team is better than another as all teams can be beaten by some setups if the pilots and FC do the right thing. |
Don ZOLA
Caldari Vale Tudo.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:26:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tnam Edited by: Tnam on 26/01/2009 09:18:03 I don't agree. If you went with your system, then there would be excessive luck in the draw for the first match if you were facing a weak team (if there are weak teams). Then you would in theory get a very easy second match and walk through to the finals very well. Likewise if you were drawn facing a strong team in the first match and you lost, you would be faced with another very hard fight potentially in the second.
The system as it is works very well, it means if you take an easy win in the first match you are still well placed to qualify for finals as a result but not if you get totally whacked by a good team (where presumably such a team would have whacked you in the finals as well).
I know there is more to it this and you can't really definitively say that 1 team is better than another as all teams can be beaten by some setups if the pilots and FC do the right thing.
then the 2nd draw should be random aswell, shouldnt it?
If we went with my system, then you would need excessive luck in the draw for the weak team to pass further, as you said. This way we will have much more then 1 "weak" team pass. While some good ones might lose and not get to next stage due to points etc. Thats what i am talking about :)
I agree that it depends lots on setups, but there is still big difference between teams capabilities, ie some can have perfect setup but they execution will be poor anyway, so they will lose.
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:34:00 -
[4]
I kind of like how they did it a times back where everyone was in a group, top two teams in each group went through to the finals after paying everyone in the group. I guess if you had a hard group, you might get cut short, but then again, if you didn't make it out of your group, you'd probably be unlikely to win it anyway.
On the 1 vs 64, 2 vs 63 method, what would you do if there was an upset? Then there may be several teams with a 1 - 1 record. I kind of would like to see 3 or 4 qualification rounds to get a more accurate final rank.
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Don ZOLA
Caldari Vale Tudo.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Johnathan Roark I kind of like how they did it a times back where everyone was in a group, top two teams in each group went through to the finals after paying everyone in the group. I guess if you had a hard group, you might get cut short, but then again, if you didn't make it out of your group, you'd probably be unlikely to win it anyway.
On the 1 vs 64, 2 vs 63 method, what would you do if there was an upset? Then there may be several teams with a 1 - 1 record. I kind of would like to see 3 or 4 qualification rounds to get a more accurate final rank.
i dont think that 1vs64 system is perfect, it was just an example. I agree with you that system used in old tourneys was better.
Thou my point is that this system is not good because there is big possibility that a lot of weak teams will pass.
Btw dont think this is the whine, i`m just really bored at work :D |
sliver 0xD
exiles. The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: sliver 0xD on 26/01/2009 12:35:35 iam wondering how they are gone do the next rounds. i may hope that its fully random.
there is not realy a way to know if a team is good or not by there points. they just lost or won there match.
it can totaly change in match 2
--- Somebody needs a hug! |
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CCP Mindstar
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: sliver 0xD Edited by: sliver 0xD on 26/01/2009 12:35:35 iam wondering how they are gone do the next rounds. i may hope that its fully random.
there is not realy a way to know if a team is good or not by there points. they just lost or won there match.
it can totaly change in match 2
After round 1, the really good teams are not necessarily separated from the "accidentally good" teams - as you have pointed out. The idea of matching equally ranked teams with each other will mostly fix this, as the matches just got harder.
Teams that won in round 1 now fight each other, and teams that lost also fight each other. The really good teams will go to 2 wins, 0 losses, and the rest to 1 win 1 loss.
At this point, the bottom 16 of the final 32 is decided by the highest 16 teams that have 1 win 1 loss. The main goal of the qualifying rounds is of course to get the win, but if you score a lot of points in losing you can get into the finals with 1 loss. |
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KIAEddZ
Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:03:00 -
[8]
The "swiss" draw method is very well known, used in many competitive situations, and works very well for this kind of tournament where the early knockout stage is a short busrt of just 2 matches to qualify, and where these matches can pivot on such small details.
Overall I think we will get a very balanced final 32.
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Kashimir
Otoko no Baito
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Mindstar
After round 1, the really good teams are not necessarily separated from the "accidentally good" teams - as you have pointed out. The idea of matching equally ranked teams with each other will mostly fix this, as the matches just got harder.
Teams that won in round 1 now fight each other, and teams that lost also fight each other. The really good teams will go to 2 wins, 0 losses, and the rest to 1 win 1 loss.
At this point, the bottom 16 of the final 32 is decided by the highest 16 teams that have 1 win 1 loss. The main goal of the qualifying rounds is of course to get the win, but if you score a lot of points in losing you can get into the finals with 1 loss.
I'm almost ashamed I didn't realize this before the explanation was slapped against my face. Very rational way to deal with this kind of tournament. |
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CCP Claw
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kashimir
Very rational way to deal with this kind of tournament.
Don't say that out loud, people might think that we know what we're doing! |
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sliver 0xD
exiles. The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Mindstar
Originally by: sliver 0xD Edited by: sliver 0xD on 26/01/2009 12:35:35 iam wondering how they are gone do the next rounds. i may hope that its fully random.
there is not realy a way to know if a team is good or not by there points. they just lost or won there match.
it can totaly change in match 2
After round 1, the really good teams are not necessarily separated from the "accidentally good" teams - as you have pointed out. The idea of matching equally ranked teams with each other will mostly fix this, as the matches just got harder.
Teams that won in round 1 now fight each other, and teams that lost also fight each other. The really good teams will go to 2 wins, 0 losses, and the rest to 1 win 1 loss.
At this point, the bottom 16 of the final 32 is decided by the highest 16 teams that have 1 win 1 loss. The main goal of the qualifying rounds is of course to get the win, but if you score a lot of points in losing you can get into the finals with 1 loss.
this actualy makes allot of sence.
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