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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:06:00 -
[1]
Eve is a sandbox. A crowded sandbox. While ISK is one yardstick of success, after a point stockpiling ISK to make more ISK becomes meaningless. 'Red-lighting' players has emerged as a new goal.
Started playing Eve for ISK, like thousands of others...
-Stealing salvage/looting generates ISK, positive sec-status and occasional PVP. -Positive sec-status is turned into more ISK through suicide ganking Empire haulers. -Trade and market PVP turns millions into tens of billions. -"Go infinite" and never pay cash for Eve again.
My goals changed though. As time went on, the ISK-returns on ganking became less alluring. In an absolute sense, it was just as profitable as ever - but a 200M score just didn't mean as much. At about the same time, suicide ganking became more difficult, as Concord response times were cut in half. As the number of 'killable' targets dropped, ganking became more of a habit than a profit-building exercise.
During one of these forays, I was getting tired of scanning, so I decided to pop some random AFK Iteron II.
Most suiciders know the type well : the one or two month old NPC-corp player, loaded with a laundry list of all the random crap that they have accumulated since they started playing Eve. You know, Civilian Small Boosters, Cheap skill books, small amounts of minerals and ores. T1 Ammunition, a few drugs, dairy products, and unremarkable tags. Etc etc etc. Total value: probably less than 10 Million. In all likelihood this guy threw everything he owned into his 'covered wagon' and was moving to a new home via autopilot --- and now it was all gone, a sad, broken, yellow triangle 8Km from the Sivala jumpgate.
Out of sheer morbid curiousity, I added him to my address book - just to see if he'd ever play again. Sure enough, as the weeks rolled by - the little green light next to his smiling Gallente picture remained red forever more, hence 'redlighted'.
Since then, I've more or less quit ganking for ISK and started specifically targetting these young AFK 'prairie schooners', just to see if they continue to subscribe (as hauler <> trial account) after losing everything. While its is hardly scientific, I'd say about 50-60% of them log in once or twice more and then 'go red'. The rest, admirably, stick with it.
I reckon it has something to do with gamers who don't have a lot invested in Eve. A major unexpected blow for a young player, struggling with the learning curve, causes them to give up and do something else with their time. Most older players will just shrug off the loss and stick with it, having invested much into EVE and their toon already. Naturally, 3 or 4 year-old nullsec PVPers have lost hundreds of ships. There really isn't anything you can do, in game, to make such a player give up, short of boring them to death.
Short disclaimer - Of course, I don't know what Eve's retention rate is for 1 and 2 month characters - many young players quit on their own, so I could be overstating. Naturally, once someone quits the game its not really possible to send them an EVEmail and ask them why....
I am curious about what other players have done in the interest of 'Eve population control'. Which activities and tactics are most successful in culling the newbie herd?
Or am I the only one that keeps track?
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Raynardine
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:14:00 -
[2]
You're a terrible person.
I think you should recompense for your sins by donating isk to me.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:20:00 -
[3]
Haha, nice post. Your cruel character truly belongs to EVE!
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Vincent Death
Caldari K Directorate
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Raynardine You're a terrible person.
Keep living the dream OP, keep living the dream.
The proper name for a social system based on political freedom is capitalism. |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Herr Wilkus I'm a **** to people because I have nothing else to do.
Wonderful post. 10/10. Would read again. ...
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Makhan
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:27:00 -
[6]
Kill all minmatar
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Slickster
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:29:00 -
[7]
Not so much the culling but i was on the receiving and lost my first cruiser i ever owned within an hour of buying it. I Spent a week grinding missions , the old static npc pirate spwns , and looting those gate flotsams. I had no fear so contiuned to to look for better things to kill, one jump into to amamake i got pwned by a apoc sitting 300 km of the gate in a tach fitted apoc. never mind __________________ To POD or to be PODDED that is the Question ? InEVE API verified |
Raynardine
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Posted - 2009.01.27 14:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Makhan Kill all minmatar
Hear Hear!
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H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.27 15:33:00 -
[9]
You seem to be Darwin's right hand
'Red-lighting' as you call it does probably not work with losec dwellers - but actually I never checked if my victims continued playing. Some do for sure, as they keep coming back for more
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Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.27 17:26:00 -
[10]
I'm one of the few that stuck with it. I did lvl 1s in a rookie ship until I could afford my very first industrial ship. I undocked to go buy insurance...and....it was sad, really. lol. 1 week of grinding went up in smoke not even 1 min after I bought it.
I stuck it out. The only satisfaction I got from it was imagining the "wtf? it's empty and no modules!" comment that probably ensued after they suicide ganked. At most they got a little salvage that any rat could give them.
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Belmarduk
Amarr M.A.R.S. Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.27 17:41:00 -
[11]
1. Eve is not crowded - There are countless quiet systems (worth living in ! ) in both 0,0 and empire 2. Killing young players (fresh blood) just for the sake of it is bad. 3. Killing stupid newbs who would have left anyway and who take stupid risks allthough they are told the golden rules by their corp is good. 4. Insurance payout for concord related incidents should be stopped ! BUT response time for concord should be made like it use to be. Ergo it should be easier to gank but not just for the sake of it. Sadly CCP obviously tries to protect its macrominer-customers that way...
Greetings Belmarduk
Mainchar:
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Hana Lena
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.27 18:20:00 -
[12]
Herr Wilkus you Sir are a Mo#%@* F&^*ing B$^&@%$. |
Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.27 18:29:00 -
[13]
Herr Wilkus
-- Going to log in, to set you KOS. -- Going to add you to addy -- Going to get concorded trying to pop your glory tank in Amarr. |
Ewa White
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.01.27 19:32:00 -
[14]
Nice :)
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DaDutchDude
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.27 19:54:00 -
[15]
Edited by: DaDutchDude on 27/01/2009 20:03:29
Targeting noobs this way is kinda sad. Yes, they need to learn about the harsh way of New Eden, but this type of suicide ganking surely is the lamest way to get your ****s and giggles. It clearly indicates you have a very flawed personality.
I hope you also understand that getting new players is required for the survivability of EVE as a MMO. Deterring new players from continuing their subscription will eventually cause either one of two possible outcomes: - suicide ganking (and perhaps other valid tactics for some situations but abused in the way you describe) get nerfed into oblivion to protect the inflow of new players, making the game more into a Hello Kitty game, resulting in whining from griefers - EVE will die a slow death when old time players slowly start to move on to other games while the inflow of new gamers comes to a completer stop, eventually making it financially unsound to survive and making CCP pull the plug
Don't say nobody told you so when either of these two happen. |
Vasili vonHolst
Minmatar Gargamel's Lair
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:03:00 -
[16]
Ops post was worth reading... That is all. --->Movie: + Trillion damage to CareBear community |
MyOwnSling
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.27 22:12:00 -
[17]
lol your scientific inquiries make me giggle. |
Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.01.28 00:37:00 -
[18]
I never thought of that, although I have popped a few people just because. Mainly though I like to catch pods. All those noobs that buy a new ship and then decide that going to pick it up in their pod was a good idea. Or the guys that had a ship on AP, or maybe they just AP their pod to Jita, and then they just sit there 15km off the gate in Jita in empty indys or pods.
I don't think I'll add people to my book though. Maybe if there was a way that you could put people into folders and actually organize it a little better I would. Three years down the line though I would have no idea why all these people are in my book. |
Cass Deus
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Posted - 2009.01.28 01:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ocih Herr Wilkus
-- Going to log in, to set you KOS. -- Going to add you to addy -- Going to get concorded trying to pop your glory tank in Amarr.
You're pretty ******ed if you think that's his main. I hope he "redlights" you. OP - Continue your brave and admirable task. |
AdmiralDovolski
Gallente N.A.S.A. Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.28 01:12:00 -
[20]
ive redlighted a guy once.
this poor soul in RA was compressing ore in his rorq outside a station in 0.0. 6 cans were next to him. i popped em all.
then next day i go back at near the same time. there he is again. 4 cans. pop
the next day, 5 cans. i added him to my address book.
next day, i pop his 3 cans. he starts yelling in russian. i asked him what was in the cans. he replied that there was only compressed bistot in the can (which is true from what i can gather, i once peeked at them).
i told him 300 million or i keep coming back. he has logged off and has not logged on since. |
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mduncan0341
Infusion. PROBABLE CAUSE
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Posted - 2009.01.28 01:16:00 -
[21]
So I am not alone.
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.01.28 01:29:00 -
[22]
I once killed some newbie in a bantam who was trying to ninja-loot abandoned cans (this was before wrecks) that ratters left behind.
I podded him too. Always kind of felt bad about that.
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Cyd Vicious
8lack Wing Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.28 02:11:00 -
[23]
Nice Post
I enjoyed reading it, Its refreshing
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2009.01.28 04:26:00 -
[24]
Interesting responses. Most are right on.
Except...this IS my main. In fact, it is very nearly my real name as well. I am in a player corp. Convo my corpmates, I'm sure they'll spill the beans and give away my home address/phone number for a minimal amount of ISK. Hell, maybe just for the lulz.
TEARS alliance is always looking for more wardecs.
That aside, the image I get in my head is that animated bit from "The Wall". No, not the plantlife fcking - that part where the innocent baby morphs into a fascist/demon which bashes some random dude's head in.
Fact is, young players turn into real competition after they gain experience and SP. Today's 1 or 2-month character, if allowed to play Eve for a year, will become:
-The 0.0 bubble gatecamper that gets between you and your destination. -The trader that undercuts you by a penny right after you log off. -The manufacturer that undercuts you by several million with a massive sell order. -Other suicide gankers and salvage looters. -The scammer that clogs up local with contracts that are downright insulting. (though I'm always impressed by a good scam - see the Market Discussion Forum, Xabier) -Just another miner - and we hardly need actual players to do that. The Concord/Alliance-protected Chinese farmers have that sector of the economy covered, I reckon. -Just another mission runner. Probably doing them a favor, making them quit. Seriously.
Popping that first Itty II was just curiousity and random chance. However, I realized that eliminating these young subscribers at an early age, in some tiny, incremental way, makes it easier for me to 'win' Eve.
Same type of behavior occurs in nature as well. Cuckoo and cowbird babies roll their adopted sibilings out of the nest at birth. Why? To eliminate competition at the earliest possible opportunity. I suppose CCP wants all the little birdies with credit cards to live, but I honestly don't care.
Oh, fair warning, most of the above text is rationalization.
Keep the ideas coming! Podding an AFK hauler is generally quite easy, as the pod often sits next to the wreckage for a spell. Podding would also likely improve the redlight success rate. While I tend to stick with the full gank-Hurricane, alt-hauler combo - the loot is usually crap anyway, so the hauler is somewhat superfluous. Perhaps instead of the hauler, just have an 'out of the box' disposable alt do the podding? Will have to play around with bloodlines and EFT to see if a freshly created character can alpha the 450 HP needed to insta-pop a pod with a dessie.
Just guessing, but I reckon you can pop two pods in 0.5-0.6 Empire before you need to start a new character with a fresh security status. |
Ocih
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.28 04:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cass Deus
Originally by: Ocih Herr Wilkus
-- Going to log in, to set you KOS. -- Going to add you to addy -- Going to get concorded trying to pop your glory tank in Amarr.
You're pretty ******ed if you think that's his main. I hope he "redlights" you. OP - Continue your brave and admirable task.
You are more than welcome to try. Get in line. |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.28 04:47:00 -
[26]
t3 and wormhole systems will open the map right up to more population dispersion |
Haakelen
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.28 05:08:00 -
[27]
Anecdotally I've been party to making some people quit, but it wasn't my primary intention at the time. |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.28 05:13:00 -
[28]
some quit thats life |
wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.01.28 05:54:00 -
[29]
While you definitely have every right to do so, I generally don't target people in cheap ships - those who fly them, generally do because that's the best they can afford, and newbies are the future of EVE. There's a built-in loophole to EVE morality here and that is, when you kill experienced players who have the money to spare you get isk; when you kill players that have no money to spare but they have friends that can help them climb out of the hole (i.e. they are in a player corp), you get isk; when you decide to let a newbie player go then you ensure, you ensure that EVE survives for longer since the newbie won't emoragequit.
You forget how hard it is to build a fortune from quite literally nothing. If you have 0 isk and 0 resources, even if you have the skills if you're not in a player corp that can set you up you have to grind in a frigate mining or level 1's until you get your first million in hours and hours of play, then you get a cruiser, then a month later at the earliest you get a battleship.... and this is just grind, grind, grind, no fun. When I don't get anything out of the deal, even with EVE morality I'd still consider killing newbies like that immoral.
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Arthur Rage
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Posted - 2009.01.28 10:54:00 -
[30]
So you're actively & knowingly taking away money from CCP ... great, hope they notice and ban you.
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