EVE Search - Why no æBusinessÆ sales?

All Channels

Market Discussions

Why no æBusinessÆ sales?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Tarun Thred Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:49:00 - [1] Edited by: Tarun Thred on 28/01/2009 00:53:57 Edit for formating fail. I have recently changed my primary source of income and not for the first time. My previous æbusinessÆ is no less profitable, it is simply not worth my time as my new æbusinessÆ is far more lucrative. IÆm sure that I am not the only one to have had this experience and it got me to wondering why I have never seen a thread like this: ----------------------------------------- [WTA] High sec T1 production business Turnover of 700m ISK per week. Full API audit confirming assets and profitability provided by ûinsert trusted MD face here- who will also be handling the sale. Sale includes: 1.4b (NPC price) of well researched BPOs. 2.4b of materials. Easy to use excel spreadsheet designed for purpose and refined over 6 months of operation. 2000 word in depth guide including everything I have learned about this market. After sales care, once you have read the guide feel free to contact me in game with any questions. Essential but not included in sale: Character with production efficiency V, advanced mass production at minimum of IV, and preferably accountancy and broker relations to a reasonable level. Further details will only be discussed with those who I judge to show serious interest and then I will not be disclosing specific BPOÆs etc. for obvious reasons. Warning, the market can down as well as up etc. ----------------------------------------------- Some possible answers: Noob! Threads like that/this come up all the time, use eve-search and go back to general where you belong. Any one with the isk to buy a business can already make plenty themselves- yes, but there could be a market for those who have made their money missioning/ratting and are looking for a change of scene. I would also argue that there is not always a strong correlation between ability to efficiently harvest isk and wallet size. No one likes to give away hard earned market knowledge, even if it is for isk and no longer of use to them- now this seems closer to the mark, especially if it is the case that your new venture grew out of the old, if you spotted it what is to stop the guy you sell to spotting it? YouÆre a genius! /me runs off to start a business to sell on latter. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Waseem The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.28 01:33:00 - [2] I would guess nobody wants to provide spreadsheets and a 2000 word essay on how to run the business in your example. However, this is done with reaction chains/moon mining chains all the time without the documentation, which is readily available anyways. The other problem is that the buyer has no guarantee you will stop working the business. And you have all the tools/knowledge to pick right back up. So they send you lets say 4b to purchase 3.8b in assets and some possibly decent documentation. It would probably come off as a neat little trick in charging 200m for digital documents in a market you already monopolize on. And there is nothing to stop you from sending 20 people the same documents and netting 200m from each of them. 200m of course being probably the low ball number.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.28 01:39:00 - [3] Edited by: Brock Nelson on 28/01/2009 01:39:57 WTS Flux Technologies Inc Research corporation that is making 1 billion each month 2 Large POS Crap load of blueprints (mostly in research) 3 billion in liabilities in form of bonds Asking 15 billion. Edit: Yeah, I'll never sell it. I mean, I work hard to build up reputation, not just as a researcher but as a marketer. Plus, why would you want to sell your baby?! 10% for Returning Customers
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:44:00 - [4] I don't think anyone will take on any goodwill when buying a business. My IPO for example, is really a bunch of BPO's and minerals (and knowhow). All I would be selling is those materials, why would anyone pay more than market price. If I wanted to close the business I would just sell the stuff. Seeing as no one is willing to really pay for my know how on how to run the T1 manufacturing business, I don't see the point. I would never sell the character Cosmoray, as it took ages to build any sort of reputation here and I don't want it destroyed in seconds.
Golanbat Quantum Supply and Enterprises	Posted - 2009.01.28 04:05:00 - [5] OP: Perhaps rather than trying to sell the entire kit and kaboodle as a whole, you could set out feelers to find a newer MD reader or other entrepreneur who would pay a percentage of their profit to learn the trade from you and then purchase your hard assets over time. You may not make a ton of isk off selling the "business," which is little more than some hard assets valued at market-price, as cosmoray mentioned, but the lasting relationship with the one who received the business plus the ongoing payment by the same might net you more isk than a straight sell would anyway. Certainly the onus of finding a trustworthy buyer would be on you, which would/could be more of a task that you are willing to undertake, but IF the business is worthwhile, AND you are a good judge of "online character," you might be able to make isk and improve someone's status in EVE at the same time. On a personal note, if I had read this thread a year ago, I would be eve-mailing you rather than posting, because I would be the one looking for an "in" on the sometimes mysterious world of "1. Buy cheap, 2. Sell High, 3. Profit."
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.28 05:20:00 - [6] About the only real sort of "business" you could "sell" would be something like a POS chain, where your fee covers: - Material Assets - Transfer of corp CEO to the "buyer" (very big trust thing, you'd need a chribba-trust alt to become CEO and ensure the old one is gone proper before accepting the new one as CEO) - Reasonable fee to avert the hassle of the whole "I have to unanchor stuff and sell it for the other guy to reanchor it" Closest thing like this to ever happen was with ZZZ alliance when (someone else) took it over, but that was even then more of a "changing of the guard" than an actual sale IIRC.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.28 08:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Waseem The other problem is that the buyer has no guarantee you will stop working the business. And you have all the tools/knowledge to pick right back up. So they send you lets say 4b to purchase 3.8b in assets and some possibly decent documentation. It would probably come off as a neat little trick in charging 200m for digital documents in a market you already monopolize on. Two observations. First, almost 4 billion in assets really cuts down on the competition. Paying 200 mil for the knowledge doesn't give you those assets. Second, the very fact that he's selling the business is a strong guarantee. If he reenters the market later, he has to deal with the competitor(s) he made. Plus he sold off a trade alt too.
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:54:00 - [8] I like your idea, the other problem I will is the possible that the 2000 word doc is just "Ha you stupid noob" but other than that I would like to see something like that. Now from a business broker view point, it takes time to sell a business. So you would need to understand that even if you wiped this up, you could be sitting in it for a few months.
Tarun Thred Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:11:00 - [9] I suppose what I am trying to get at is that while you can recoup the in game assets from a discontinued venture there are investments which canÆt be liquidated. These would primarily be knowledge and refinements built up over time and out of game tools tailored to the specific business. To me these seem like assets which it would a shame not to get a return on. I take the point of trust issues around multiple sales or the vendor staying in the market and I guess these would be difficult to overcome. Just for clarity the example in the op is purely hypothetical, I have only ever dabbled with t1 production.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:57:00 - [10] Usually the only reason to buy a business is for the clientele and/or contracts the business has already set up. Those are where the value of the business lie. In EVE, most people don't have repeat customers, so there's nothing to sell. The commodity market style set up this game has makes it so it's easier for someone to manufacture, because they don't also have to drum up business, something I actually think the game is worse off for. My favorite model is the Ultima Online model, where you actually build up a customer base. I would love it if there were no market interface. If you had to actually work with other people to buy your materials and sell your product, even if it was through a store front. Global market search interfaces, IMO, have ruined the old fun I had of running a more true to life online business.
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.01.28 17:36:00 - [11] Originally by: nether void My favorite model is the Ultima Online model, where you actually build up a customer base. I loved UO, but as in UO the only difference in items was the selling location. I was really hoping for storefronts so we could see stores with contracts with standard ship setup. In low sec, maybe its carriers with all the normal mods that go along with it and some fuel. As for what the business has, the former owner knows the market. That is going concern if the owner will stay and help the new owner for say 20 days. I really like the idea I just don't know if I would buy into a T1 business, I would move faster if it was something like a T2 business.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Dreamwalker I was really hoping for storefronts so we could see stores with contracts with standard ship setup. In low sec, maybe its carriers with all the normal mods that go along with it and some fuel. That would be awesome! Of course some markup for the convenience, because without markup you might as well sell it on the market. I know they're introducing storefronts in ambulation, but what can you actually do with them? I was under the impression manufacturers wouldn't be very interested in them because you won't be able to sell ships and modules through them or something?
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:14:00 - [13] Originally by: nether void I know they're introducing storefronts in ambulation, but what can you actually do with them? I was under the impression manufacturers wouldn't be very interested in them because you won't be able to sell ships and modules through them or something? If storefronts are put in then there can be a premium of corps that hold offices in the bigger 0.0 and low sec trading hubs. So along the same lines of business, we could see real corps being sold with their storefronts as a going concern. I don't know about other people but when I'm pvping in low sec I would love to be able to fly to a near by station and buy a package that contains the normal stuff with guns/ammo/defense mods and rigs. Too many times I find a ship but the some of the mods are 2-3 jumps over and the rigs are 10 jumps out. I would be happy to pay 20% mark up for standard ship and mod package. Just think of how much faster we could roll out the support fleet if they can buy package ships near by. Without having to fix lol mods like civilian shield boosters or civilian guns.
Mehixa	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:37:00 - [14] One of the principle reasons for some companies aquiring others is to gain access to their intellectual property. In EVE we could point to the parallel of entities in the secondary market and their proprietary software. So you're paying for the business, but really you're paying for the software and the sole right to operate it. Examples? Why not! IskSense EBANK Dynasty Bank/DBANK Can businesses operating in the primary markets of EVE sell? Yeah...probably. But the secondary market is where you'll see more of this kind of thing. This is dampened by the fact that most businesses in the secondary market are too successful to quit. A while back there was an attempt to sell Banking software. It didn't do too well.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Mehixa One of the principle reasons for some companies aquiring others is to gain access to their intellectual property. In EVE we could point to the parallel of entities in the secondary market and their proprietary software. So you're paying for the business, but really you're paying for the software and the sole right to operate it. Examples? Why not! IskSense EBANK Dynasty Bank/DBANK Can businesses operating in the primary markets of EVE sell? Yeah...probably. But the secondary market is where you'll see more of this kind of thing. This is dampened by the fact that most businesses in the secondary market are too successful to quit. A while back there was an attempt to sell Banking software. It didn't do too well. Don't agree with this at all!! Your missing the most important point of the secondary market. TRUST. If EBANK was sold, would investors feel their capital was safe? Nope. If EBANK announced it was being purchased by A.N.Other, everyone would withdraw their funds. Trust, trust, trust is a commoditity that can't bought.
Alex555	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:29:00 - [16] there are two main factors in eve economy to make anyone rich - isks and skills/slots anyone can make isks out of isks. it is no problem. the only problem is to get enough isks to start. that is understood. the other thing. being a manufacturer i have realized the one important thing - the more slots u have the more isks u make. of course your toons ought to be well trained but i guess it goes without saying. so all above siad make the following quite logic: selling buziness model in eve is barely possible due to one factor - simplicity. maybe it is hard to believe but eve economy is quite simple. al variables ae known. one should just open up an excel and all profits and costs can be calculated in no time. so, once u reveil your buziness model the next day everyone will be making isks out of it, because it doesnt require a lot to copy any buziness model. the only factor, which is an obstacle, is the number of slots that shoulf be used to make wheels roll and the number of isks to oil that rolling. u just need isks to start and slots to implement hence to sell a buziness model one should consider selling chars. and that is way more intresting selling a full pack of isk making machine including - chars, poses, manuals - that is the next generation of eve secondary market
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:52:00 - [17] Edited by: Hexxx on 28/01/2009 22:52:50 Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Mehixa One of the principle reasons for some companies aquiring others is to gain access to their intellectual property. In EVE we could point to the parallel of entities in the secondary market and their proprietary software. So you're paying for the business, but really you're paying for the software and the sole right to operate it. Examples? Why not! IskSense EBANK Dynasty Bank/DBANK Can businesses operating in the primary markets of EVE sell? Yeah...probably. But the secondary market is where you'll see more of this kind of thing. This is dampened by the fact that most businesses in the secondary market are too successful to quit. A while back there was an attempt to sell Banking software. It didn't do too well. Don't agree with this at all!! Your missing the most important point of the secondary market. TRUST. If EBANK was sold, would investors feel their capital was safe? Nope. If EBANK announced it was being purchased by A.N.Other, everyone would withdraw their funds. Trust, trust, trust is a commoditity that can't bought. You're rolling things together here. =) EBANK's brand and reputation earn it the trust it needs to be as successful as it is. However, when you buy a company you get much more than their brand and reputation...you get their intellectual property. EBANK's software must be worth quite a bit. And while it's brand would be harmed by a sale, it's brand is not destroyed (seriously, seriously depreciated...but not destroyed). Just because a business would be harmed by a sale, does not mean it would be destroyed by a sale. This means that such a sale (in theory) would mean the buyer is paying a VERY VERY VERY hefty premium for what they're actually getting. You do have a point though...the kind of hit to trust/reputation makes the purchase of such a business (it's brand, software, design, etc) makes it a very questionable buy. The new owner would have to be just as trusted in order for such a transaction to make sense. While we're using EBANK as an example; if Ray and Chibbra and Entity got together and wanted to buy it out and run the business....well....how much harm has really been done to the "trust" quotient? Also, and this is a lesser known thing, EBANK has over 4,000 customers right now....how many do you think read the MD forums on a regular basis? edit: I have zero willpower. I blame you.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Hexxx Edited by: Hexxx on 28/01/2009 22:52:50 Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Mehixa One of the principle reasons for some companies aquiring others is to gain access to their intellectual property. In EVE we could point to the parallel of entities in the secondary market and their proprietary software. So you're paying for the business, but really you're paying for the software and the sole right to operate it. Examples? Why not! IskSense EBANK Dynasty Bank/DBANK Can businesses operating in the primary markets of EVE sell? Yeah...probably. But the secondary market is where you'll see more of this kind of thing. This is dampened by the fact that most businesses in the secondary market are too successful to quit. A while back there was an attempt to sell Banking software. It didn't do too well. Don't agree with this at all!! Your missing the most important point of the secondary market. TRUST. If EBANK was sold, would investors feel their capital was safe? Nope. If EBANK announced it was being purchased by A.N.Other, everyone would withdraw their funds. Trust, trust, trust is a commoditity that can't bought. You're rolling things together here. =) EBANK's brand and reputation earn it the trust it needs to be as successful as it is. However, when you buy a company you get much more than their brand and reputation...you get their intellectual property. EBANK's software must be worth quite a bit. And while it's brand would be harmed by a sale, it's brand is not destroyed (seriously, seriously depreciated...but not destroyed). Just because a business would be harmed by a sale, does not mean it would be destroyed by a sale. This means that such a sale (in theory) would mean the buyer is paying a VERY VERY VERY hefty premium for what they're actually getting. You do have a point though...the kind of hit to trust/reputation makes the purchase of such a business (it's brand, software, design, etc) makes it a very questionable buy. The new owner would have to be just as trusted in order for such a transaction to make sense. While we're using EBANK as an example; if Ray and Chibbra and Entity got together and wanted to buy it out and run the business....well....how much harm has really been done to the "trust" quotient? Also, and this is a lesser known thing, EBANK has over 4,000 customers right now....how many do you think read the MD forums on a regular basis? edit: I have zero willpower. I blame you. Also, many RL buyouts include the head guy...at least for awhile. He has to stay, because much of the brand recognition is this guy, as Cosmo stated. Like Bill Gates and MS for awhile there. Steve Jobs and Apple. When a business wants to change this 'head guy' thing, they start swapping this big name out with some other suit to either have a change of guard for the brand recognition or just to phase out the connection between 'founder' and 'product'. Apple is actually doing this right now with mr Jobs.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.