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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mister Flibble
eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.29 09:30:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/01/2009 09:23:01 Talking to programmers is like talking to women though, you just can't bloody understand them and their logic
Not to mention most of them suffer from Post Morning Stress all the time.
It's nothing to do with logic - we're all just insane.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.01.29 09:33:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mister Flibble It's nothing to do with logic
Couldn't agree more
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Mister Flibble
eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.29 09:37:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Couldn't agree more
Good, then it's settled - programming's nothing to do with logic, and Design should pay for the beer
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.01.29 09:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mister Flibble
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Couldn't agree more
Good, then it's settled - programming's nothing to do with logic, and Design should pay for the beer
Chicago rules; last one to kill a bug buys the beer.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.01.29 10:06:00 -
[35]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 29/01/2009 10:08:04 You make me remember my own situation a few years back. What it mainly requires remain dedication, motivation, perseverance not to give up from your goals.
I would first recommend you to achieve studies linked to research, mathematics, computer science and that require analysis, logical deductions to give you something shiny on your CV: due to the relatively closed nature of the gaming industry, the hardest part will be to join a first company linked to that field. Not saying the rest is going to be easy, but most of them rightfully look for candidates with years of design experience, which of course remains difficult to achieve when fresh and young, which is why you need to compensate with an good education path. Remember you still need some money to live (curse this weak, soft-flesh body, wish I could exchange it against something a bit more resilient), so you can't afford to stay unemployed for too long or it will have a negative effect on your CV.
Even with that, you need to proceed in small and cautious steps instead of trying to leap forward. You will most likely not be working as a game designer when you start on such company, so you will need to show people there your capabilities. Try to take part in company gaming brainstormings/discussions, propose ideas and concepts, write up documents. You absolutely need to show your superiors and people responsible you are highly dedicated for the job.
During your free time, gather some basic gaming knowledge. Look for books on the topic, play various best-rated games, compare their strength, weaknesses, put them on a scale. When you feel confident and as somebody said before, start designing your own pen and paper games, so you can notice the balance issues that will natularly come up as you build the character/skill/global system.
You will finally need luck, and for that there is unfortunately little I can do for you. Again, the gaming field sadly remains quite closed and thus challenging to reach, but it is definately worth it: I can honestly say CCP is the best company I ever had the chance to work in.
I hope that helps, and good luck in your future journeys |
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Ranik Sandaris
Caldari The Centurions Eternus Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 10:55:00 -
[36]
Would you guys at CCP like to hire somone to make tea? im pretty good at it :)
or hire me to be the guy that goes out and buys the beer :P go on. ill be the ccp g. imp |
Ninjitsuki
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.29 10:59:00 -
[37]
Most replies have already done a good job explaining the difficulties and temper your enthusiasm, still I would like to add one more sobering thought in there.
Everyone in the gamesindustry has ideas. Ideas are easy, implementation is hard. Gamedesigners rarely get to pitch what type of game to make, what setting, major selling points, in short most of the things in your short design. Such high level decisions usually come from a creative director of some sorts. Someone who probably (partially) owns the studio and has profitability or at least company strategy in mind. The gamedesigners get to work out the details like balancing, level design, creating large data sheets of individual equipment and so on. Stuff that requires technical thinking, communication maybe even some scripting.
When applying for a designer job, show how you can use maths to attain combat balance or an excel sheet to attain economy balance. Recruiters get about one of those applications for every ten people explaining what mmo they would like to make or what fps, frankly dreams that have little to do with daily designer work.
That being said it's still a job where you need an abundance of creativity and enthusiasm so don't let the grumpy veterans get to you After earning respect the creative director might even listen to you.
(disclaimer: I'm a programmer, it's my job to be grumpy towards designers) |
Mister Flibble
eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.29 11:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ninjitsuki (disclaimer: I'm a programmer, it's my job to be grumpy towards designers)
Don't forget the producers
*Shakes fist at any producers who happen to be walking by
*Gets some odd looks
*Goes back to pretending to be working
Also: Woo - another programmer! We'll get these designer chappies yet!
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.29 11:34:00 -
[39]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 29/01/2009 11:35:35 well by now I bet you've figured out that digipen is expensive :P
but I just wanted to add we have a 96% employment rate into the industry.
If you check the site you'll find our game programs and such.
hell our school made portal (hell yeah, we love to say that when other school try to **** with us)
oh and your frist class and game design is actuly going to be a 50 pages a week art class :) The idea being, you can't draw like a master, but you can get your ideas across to the artist if you need to :) It's very crazy degree.
Quote: I would first recommend you to achieve studies linked to research, mathematics, computer science and that require analysis, logical deductions to give you something shiny on your CV: due to the relatively closed nature of the gaming industry, the hardest part will be to join a first company linked to that field
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Primus Metellus
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.29 11:54:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Primus Metellus on 29/01/2009 11:55:06 Edited by: Primus Metellus on 29/01/2009 11:54:40 Let's see I started as unpaid Beta, then moved onto paid QA before making game designer. The most important thing is to know that sadly 90% of your ideas are crap. So find someone to work with who can a tell you to go think harder and you don't mind him/her/subjecttochange telling you this. |
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Jack Thurner
SPECTRE Ops Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Primus Metellus I started as unpaid Beta, then moved onto paid QA before making game designer.
You bastige :P Been trying to get a QA (Test) job for months now.. damn economic crisis :/ so much for 4 years of uni studies, eh... :)
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Primus Metellus
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jack Thurner
Originally by: Primus Metellus I started as unpaid Beta, then moved onto paid QA before making game designer.
You bastige :P Been trying to get a QA (Test) job for months now.. damn economic crisis :/ so much for 4 years of uni studies, eh... :)
Well it only took me 5 years of unpaid testing to get the chance to apply for the QA job and if you count in my failed attempt at a PhD I did 7 years total at University, so I wouldn't give up hope just yet. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:56:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/01/2009 15:56:28
Originally by: Ninjitsuki Everyone in the gamesindustry has ideas. Ideas are easy, implementation is hard. Gamedesigners rarely get to pitch what type of game to make, what setting, major selling points, in short most of the things in your short design. Such high level decisions usually come from a creative director of some sorts. Someone who probably (partially) owns the studio and has profitability or at least company strategy in mind. The gamedesigners get to work out the details like balancing, level design, creating large data sheets of individual equipment and so on. Stuff that requires technical thinking, communication maybe even some scripting.
Hrhm
If your design is yours to begin with, it's the design you'll be calling shots on. There's a difference in "designer" and a designer.
Programmers know little if any about design though, mostly they just whine about how things can't be done(when everything can be done) and how things "should work" when they DON'T work
Overpayed for hunting down their own spelling mistakes even!
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Mister Flibble
eNinjas Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:01:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Mister Flibble on 29/01/2009 17:02:59
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Hrhm
If your design is yours to begin with, it's the design you'll be calling shots on. There's a difference in "designer" and a designer.
Programmers know little if any about design though, mostly they just whine about how things can't be done(when everything can be done) and how things "should work" when they DON'T work
Overpayed for hunting down their own spelling mistakes even!
No, I'm sorry - we can't do that. It should work like this...
(Or, to quote what one of our designers said this morning: "All programmers are bastards!" Hey - I'm not arguing )
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Megan Maynard
Minmatar Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:25:00 -
[45]
Can I just say that I enjoyed this thread very much and that from my experience in the Aerospace engineering perspective that everything these guys are telling you applies to any high technology job.
You have to PROVE you NEED to work there. Grades are good, experience is good, but the most experienced highest grades people won't be worth squat if they hate their job.
Companies want people full of passion about their work. They want the guy that piles work onto themselves to see how much they can do for the company.
I came in as a fall Co-Op (intern with benefits lol.) by checking their website every 2-3 weeks, contacting people I knew at the company to send me job postings if they saw them. Finally I received an e-mail saying a certain group needed an AerE Co-Op in systems. I had no clue what "systems" meant, or if I was willing to take a semester off school to work or not. Didn't matter, i called up the guy hiring and talked to him for an hour about the job, what I did, etc. He gave me a shot and now I'm working for them 3 years later. I worked my ass off and tried to absorb as much as possible at every opportunity.
Point is if you want it, don't wait for it. Be forward. Call people, email is to impersonal. Stop, hammer time. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang wow, thanks for all the input already guys.
i already knew i cant just waltz in and be a game designer, i have been working on a game design concept on microsoft word, i shown my friend (mantasoul) it and he really loved what he read, and that was just one of my game ideas... i mean, just earlier i was watching a news clip from israel/palestine, and after playing some far cry 2, i kinda thought... wouldnt it be neat to have a realistic shooter based in a conflict zone like palestine, but with all sorts of neat features and a believable story and missions/multiplayer?
If you want, i can take a peek at your game design from a brutal, "will kill your self respect", from ze business view way
and then ninja it and make millions!
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Ninjitsuki
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:56:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ninjitsuki on 30/01/2009 10:58:26
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Hrhm
If your design is yours to begin with, it's the design you'll be calling shots on. There's a difference in "designer" and a designer.
Granted, but because every game company is already sitting on a bunch of ideas, they're not gonna pay you just to bring in a new one.
Best bet along those line is to make an indie game for iphone or xbox or something and hope you hook enough people that a publisher or studio wants to pick it up and employ you. That requires programming and art as well though and the creativity to make an original and addictive little game instead of a derivative AAA-title.
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Programmers know little if any about design though, mostly they just whine about how things can't be done(when everything can be done)
Sounds like your programmers should be prototyping more. So it's not such a big deal when the designers change their mind *again*
Originally by: Sheriff Jones and how things "should work" when they DON'T work
This one is actually true
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Overpayed for hunting down their own spelling mistakes even!
Hehe. Your jealousy is showing
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sugark
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:35:00 -
[48]
Edited by: sugark on 30/01/2009 15:37:23 I suggest this link for some info. I also suspect that you will have to go through either QA or possibly game master jobs and work your way up (hey, I had to do it, too - so no moaning!), but it`s still a good thing to do, because you learn first of all what the result of crap design can be and what it takes to fix it. You would also gather a lot of technical knowledge, get contacts and possibly find the time to educate yourself as described by Ytterbium. Personally I am trying to read as many related articles, blogs, books etc as possible, analyse games that I see, learn about technical standards for the different platforms and of course work on my career specific skillsets, though yours would be different from mine. (since I am not trying to be a game designer)
If you are trying to get your first gaming industry job, try: gamasutra.com gameindustry.biz change-job.com aswift.com gamerecruit.co.uk
and possibly gamedevmap.com
To name just a few obvious ones :)
Also try to define what skill set you have already - for example, if your native language is not English, you might want to consider localisation or if you have experience in customer service, try GM etc. _______________________________________________
Click pic to get a sig! |
Cherybol
Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:00:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Cherybol on 30/01/2009 23:01:54 Do what me and my pals did.
Go to College for some offensive degree option like 'Advertising' or 'Design Visualization and Management' then about a year into it, get ****ed off and change it to 'Illustration' or '3d Animation' or just any Degree that sounds like 'Video Game Art and Design'
Atleast, thats what I'm doing atm.
Assuming your about to concept art phase of a game.
Then follow through for the 4 years of schooling, find an internship at a legit studio, work it well for a few months getting no pay, but kicking mad ass. Then they'll more then likely offer you a position at the company, or you will have that on your resume backed by a 4 year degree and a legit portfolio of art and then be able to apply at a studio of your dreams, and not get laughed at and taken seriously.
In terms of the actual game storyline/design, thats probably more literary based I'd assume, maybe coupled along with story boarding or game design/interaction.
Illustration and Story Telling have always been strong points for me, and I'd much rather get a Arts degree that required me to doodle all day then spend 4 years reading hundreds of essays about boring crap.
Also, if your into the art design aspect, this site, and its workshops will become your new messiah:
Linkage |
Alpha Wolfgang
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:08:00 -
[50]
thanks for all the wordage guys. i will be looking into all of what you said and finding my skills. |
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:59:00 -
[51]
A while back on the Lancers Reactor forums, I heard that a couple of Digital Anvil's designers got their break after doing a total conversion mod for a game.
Also Try out Thief 2X which was a total conversion mod for Thief 2 (free game as well). The conversion was so good that it could actually be seen as a follow-on story from Thief 3. Anyone who has played T3 may remember the little girl who tried to pick Garretts purse at the end.
Modding on that level could get the visibility you need to get your foot in the door. It would effectively be the previous experience that can show you are capable of doing the job.
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solidshot
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang
i could just hop right into college and work on getting a degree, but i really want to know what i need and what is needed in the gaming industry for me to make my dream games a reality for us all to enjoy.
Some info on this site that may help a little? Linkeh
Signature removed as outside forum rules.Please mail [email protected] for more information.Laurelin |
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2009.02.09 16:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Alpha Wolfgang and what is needed in the gaming industry for me to make my dream games a reality for us all to enjoy.
If you want to make your dream game a reality you need to find a programmer and an artist and you could in theory make a game that works.
If you want a game that a lot of people will buy and you earn money on..well...you are looking for a game company that produces video games and you want to be the lead designer and producer. You could start a company like that up from the grounds and get to work on your game, getting the funds might be hard, getting employees that have experience even harder.
Or you need to try and sell your game concept to a company. This is even trickier, especially if you have no idea how to present your idea and you have no background in the game industry. How do you get in would be a big problem, if you have no experience it will be hard to be taken serious if you try to sell your game. Companies will already have games they are working on and projects lined up to work on those.
If you just want to be a game designer then you work on various videogames, some you wouldnŠt have bought yourself but you like to make them as fun as possible. The challenge is to make something fun even if you initially think itŠs not fun at all, see how you can improve on the basic task and make it better.
I hope this isnŠt too harsh, but it doesnŠt happen that often anymore that an individual or a small group of individuals release a successful game. You can get pretty far with a programmer and an artist but it would still look and feel like a game that was made as a hobby not as a primary source of income (often).
IŠm lucky, I can work on things in EVE I like, I can improve things if I want to but I still have the lead designer telling me what will be developed further and what wonŠt. I canŠt change that. I can design away in my free time but the lead designer decides what will be programmed.
My main task has to do with WiS, I like WiS and I like the concept. Although in EVE all I do is shoot at things, I donŠt know if IŠd buy a new ship or a new outfit in WiS. Depends on how hot my character looks like I guess. Do we want people to chose between either a new ship or a new outfit to start with? These are questions I need to find an answer for, and many more. I approach WiS thinking what would get my pvp friends interested in this? How can I make WiS fun to hang around in? What would I want to do walking around in a station?
ThatŠs being a designer. You want to be a producer I think.
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.10 05:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia My main task has to do with WiS, I like WiS and I like the concept. Although in EVE all I do is shoot at things, I donŠt know if IŠd buy a new ship or a new outfit in WiS. Depends on how hot my character looks like I guess. Do we want people to chose between either a new ship or a new outfit to start with? These are questions I need to find an answer for, and many more. I approach WiS thinking what would get my pvp friends interested in this? How can I make WiS fun to hang around in? What would I want to do walking around in a station?
ThatŠs being a designer. You want to be a producer I think.
Isn't that pretty much the same? A producer has to think about the design as well as many other things. I thought the heirarchy meant that the lead designer has to work within the constraints given by the producer. If that's the case, I think the OP needs to start a bit lower down the corporate ladder and work his way up. It's a really long way from the ground floor up to the producers desk and most never make it.
The alternative would be to get a team together. Maybe begin with something for young kids to start making some money and gaining experience. Something along the lines of Spyro or Taz where flashy graphics and a high level of quality are not a really big concern, just so long as it's fun and fairly easy for kids to play. Then start working on something more elaborate in parallel to the moneymaking kids games once you start getting a little revenue coming in and you can afford to hire some better designers and such.
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2009.02.11 14:08:00 -
[55]
Producer are more concerned with getting the game out there in a decant shape. They are more involved with the management aspect of making a video game compared to the creative part. They know the design of a game, but arenŠt involved with each and every detail of the design. They budget, negotiate, work on timelines, makes sure the entire company is on track on completing a task.
Lead Designer takes responsibility for all designs and makes sure that any new feature fits with the rest of the game. For instance IŠm all about WiS and I know the ins and outs of it, but Lead Designer makes sure that WiS fits with the rest of EVE and I donŠt go on a pink glittery rampant and decide to introduce a hello kitty land in EVE.
To make it more complicated, the exact roles of a producer, lead designer, senior designers is very dependent on the company and its size,and can even change on a project base.
Just read job wanted ads to get a picture of what people do in other companies and how much the roles change depending on the company.
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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TU144 TEPPOPNCT'CMEPTHNK
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.14 15:13:00 -
[56]
I, for one am utterly gutted that there will be no Hello Kitty option as a look and feel Theme in WiS. Interacting with Carebears will be no fun at all.
CCP made little baby jesus cry by nerfing ghost training
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