In 0.0 The hulk would become an interestening bait also...

Sure, I'll let you render hulks and indies ungankable.

Right after you make it so they can't mine or haul whilst they're in an NPC corp, and can't hop corp to avoid decs.

You're not getting answers as people simply don't see it that way, the active people that is.

A hulk is a mining ship, it CAN tank 0.0 belts if fitted for it, it can reach 25k EHP just fine on its own while still having one MLU (close to 29K EHP when using an orca with mining mindlink). It's sturdy enough to do mining but it's ofcourse not sturdy enough to survive a full-on attack but then, if a solo industrial ships gets attacked it SHOULD be in trouble.

Just like WCS is a last resort kind of thing when you get pointed (avoiding being pointed is your best defense) a Hulk's EHP is the same thing; a last resort for when everything else didn't work out. In many cases WCS doesn't work and that's as it should be; why would a single mod or stat make up for a chain of events that all went wrong? In case of being pointed you can use scouts, being aligned, MWD/cloak, you can have the firepower from friendlies to take care of the attacker or you can have so much firepower on the field they won't even DARE to attack. That is all effort but it's the EFFORT that ensures the safety, just as in 0.0 the effort of policing your space and defending your borders ensures a form of safety.

Now we come to hulks, lets be honest; what do most miners do? They don't do ****! They're clueless on the game, never bothered to learn a tiny bit on game mechanics, they don't talk, they don't pay attention, they don't check their Dscanner, they don't bring some military force to secure their assets and above else, they refuse to refit their hulk away from max mining efficiency. Effectively they're like an autistic kid that can only do one thing and fully focus on it completely forgetting everything around him. There's so many things miners can do to protect themselves it's silly but it all takes effort and then they'll have to learn stuff and perhaps (gasp) have to pay attention)!

So no, many of us don't agree with you because all you need is already in the game, it's just that the vast majority of Hulk pilots can't be bothered to make that happen.

This is what I'm saying though. You just don't want to listen.
The hulks being set up with 25k ehp are unable to mine without an orca as they have about 8k cargo space. Jetcan mine? yeah we know how that works already. Mining is what most noobies do. Why? Its daunting to jump into pvp when all you can afford is a single frigate. Might as well jump into something that can provide the minerals and money to make more with little percieved risk involved.
I'm not saying that an untanked hulk should survive anything in highec. The ISK invested to gank it is far too small. And no the tools to avoid a gank in high aren't there because most just use a cloaky warp in with people jumping into system and warping into killing range. 15-20 seconds to d-scan what? A battleship, or a tornado, or a few destroyers in highsec? Comon now. If you're in a system with more than 30 people how the hell are you gonna know that the ship on scan is headed to lol gank you and not just doing his own thing?
With a bit more hull points they wont be super powered ships unless they fit a DCU2. Which is what most clueless people that you are talking about wont do. With it they should be able to survive a fair bit, but as it stands they are horribly easy to gank. I Just did it recently too. We had so much time we got the pod. Buddy likely looked away for 15 seconds in highsec and 7 dessys worth a combined total of 10 mil isk stomped him and his max mining pod. Now thats 7 ships in .5 sec. I can see that happening even with alot of tank.
But giving the miners a chance to play a sandbox game their way shouldn't be too much to ask. And also that bit on miners not doing **** you honestly haven't been around a large organized mining crew. They talk on teamspeak and have a good time keeping things rolling, calling what needs to be hauled so that they can churn out ships to pvp with. I would love to join them as I used to enjoy making things in the game.... but after I did a few ganks, I realized just how unbalanced it is.

Totally diffferent issue the wardec corp jumping. Apparently being addressed in the upcoming patch. Find another thread to hate on.

You know originally I thought that all the "buff mining ehp" threads were by idiots who refuse to tank their hulks.

But I went into EFT and tried to fit a hulk with as much tank as I could but still be able to mine. I gave it shield extender rigs, all hardeners in the mid slots, damage control, and 3 T2 strip miners. The most I could get was 25k EHP.

Three times the price tag of a battleship, half the tank of a shield hurricane.


I say we move mining barges to an armor tank. Give em more CPU and powergrid so they can actually try to fit a tank. Give them way more low slots and fewer mid slots. Now there is a bit of risk vs reward in mining, they could fill their entire rack of low slots with MLUs or they could fit a proper tank.

If you were willing to have a far lower yield you could be far more resistant to ganking. Or you could max out your mining yield and still get taken out by 3 thrashers like an an idiot.

You know originally I thought that all the "buff mining ehp" threads were by idiots who refuse to tank their hulks.

But I went into EFT and tried to fit a hulk with as much tank as I could but still be able to mine. I gave it shield extender rigs, all hardeners in the mid slots, damage control, and 3 T2 strip miners. The most I could get was 25k EHP.

Three times the price tag of a battleship, half the tank of a shield hurricane.


I say we move mining barges to an armor tank. Give em more CPU and powergrid so they can actually try to fit a tank. Give them way more low slots and fewer mid slots. Now there is a bit of risk vs reward in mining, they could fill their entire rack of low slots with MLUs or they could fit a proper tank.

If you were willing to have a far lower yield you could be far more resistant to ganking. Or you could max out your mining yield and still get taken out by 3 thrashers like an an idiot.

What a whiney shiitpost. Ganking is never going to be a one for one trade. So harden the ffuck up. You can't mine without orca support with 8k cargo space? Moron. You are getting neither, more defense, cargo space or dumbed down mechanics so carry your pathetic ass back to Warcraft.

It is true that the real problem is the T2 Barges.
Just adding more Shield, Armor and Hull hit points could be an enough solution. It would only change the time needed to destroy them without any other option.
Or perharps adding a med slot and enough CPU/Powergrid to fit a large shield extender... This option could though open other options that are unpredictable.

I am surprised to have only one answer.

I'm still advocating the Rock mining Rokh

Maybe a lot of folks thought it was some sort of Troll since you are with GSF. It's refreshing to see a Goon ally who isn't foaming at the mouth to be able to torch T2 Exhumers with a noob ship.

... some angry crap...

I would be fine buffing industrial ships tanks if you were willing to accept a considerable cargo hold / mining yield penalty for being in an NPC corp.

Suicide ganking and war decs are the only two valid tactics for attacking both types of ships in high sec, one is ridiculously easy to avoid. The other is, well, its still pretty easy to avoid.

What some people seem to want is to invalidate both methods of attack, whilst not receiving any penalty themselves. I might even be fine with that, if you are willing to accept high sec being nerfed so far into the ground that the only people to whom it is genuinely worth mining/care bearing there are genuine new players.

Currently high sec is used by risk averse older players who simply wish to avoid actually playing the game at any cost, you wish to take part in building ships yet are not willing to lose them and contribute to demand yourselves. You wish to supply low end minerals and modules for large corporations and alliances, but will not join them or seek their protection in leaving high sec.

Quite simply you are what is wrong with Eve. This kind of mentality is the reason mudflation almost always occurs within care bear friendly games, and you need to start dying more often.

Anyway, HTFU and get used to it, because judging from recent interviews and dev blogs it looks like CCP agree with me.

Exactly. It's entirely too easy to gank the T2 Exhumers as it is, especially thanks to the Hybrid buff. CCP has done a great job making high sec ganking into a childs game.

Let's give them some defense not immunity. NEVER make high sec 100% safe, for anyone. But at least make it a challenge again. Make a gank mean something.

High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.

You're not getting answers as people simply don't see it that way, the active people that is.

A hulk is a mining ship, it CAN tank 0.0 belts if fitted for it, it can reach 25k EHP just fine on its own while still having one MLU (close to 29K EHP when using an orca with mining mindlink). It's sturdy enough to do mining but it's ofcourse not sturdy enough to survive a full-on attack but then, if a solo industrial ships gets attacked it SHOULD be in trouble.

Just like WCS is a last resort kind of thing when you get pointed (avoiding being pointed is your best defense) a Hulk's EHP is the same thing; a last resort for when everything else didn't work out. In many cases WCS doesn't work and that's as it should be; why would a single mod or stat make up for a chain of events that all went wrong? In case of being pointed you can use scouts, being aligned, MWD/cloak, you can have the firepower from friendlies to take care of the attacker or you can have so much firepower on the field they won't even DARE to attack. That is all effort but it's the EFFORT that ensures the safety, just as in 0.0 the effort of policing your space and defending your borders ensures a form of safety.

Now we come to hulks, lets be honest; what do most miners do? They don't do ****! They're clueless on the game, never bothered to learn a tiny bit on game mechanics, they don't talk, they don't pay attention, they don't check their Dscanner, they don't bring some military force to secure their assets and above else, they refuse to refit their hulk away from max mining efficiency. Effectively they're like an autistic kid that can only do one thing and fully focus on it completely forgetting everything around him. There's so many things miners can do to protect themselves it's silly but it all takes effort and then they'll have to learn stuff and perhaps (gasp) have to pay attention)!

So no, many of us don't agree with you because all you need is already in the game, it's just that the vast majority of Hulk pilots can't be bothered to make that happen.

Ahh, this ****thread again.

No, you will not get a better tank for Industrial ships. Why? Because they are INDUSTRIAL ships. They are designed to have enough tank to fend of belt rats, not fend off ships designed for combat operations.

So you saying a destroyer-class hull, or a battlecruiser-class hull shouldn't be able to gank your Hulk is downright absurd.

If you don't want to be ganked while mining, I have a solution for you. Stop mining.

If that isn't enough:
- Give me your stuff
- Insert toon into Biomass queue over

Absolutely not.

I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer

NPC corpo should take a percentage on all what you sell.
The other problem is Ghost Corpos of 1 to 3 characters...
I already post about this problem. But the solution is complex.

hi,

I don't understand how outlaw can go trought gate without probleme. With drugs and other illegal stuff you have problem and not as an outlaw?

High sec must be inaccessible for one personne who shoot an another in high sec.

Low / null sec would be his sentense, so that he can kill (and be killed that's the point) who he want.

++

I love you argument ah ah, absolutely inutile answer

Instead of making ganking impossible in Highsec, why not giving a better tank to industrial ships ?

Concord could arrive in time.

The answer is simple:

I would be fine buffing industrial ships tanks if you were willing to accept a considerable cargo hold / mining yield penalty for being in an NPC corp.

Suicide ganking and war decs are the only two valid tactics for attacking both types of ships in high sec, one is ridiculously easy to avoid. The other is, well, its still pretty easy to avoid.

What some people seem to want is to invalidate both methods of attack, whilst not receiving any penalty themselves. I might even be fine with that, if you are willing to accept high sec being nerfed so far into the ground that the only people to whom it is genuinely worth mining/care bearing there are genuine new players.

Currently high sec is used by risk averse older players who simply wish to avoid actually playing the game at any cost, you wish to take part in building ships yet are not willing to lose them and contribute to demand yourselves. You wish to supply low end minerals and modules for large corporations and alliances, but will not join them or seek their protection in leaving high sec.

Quite simply you are what is wrong with Eve. This kind of mentality is the reason mudflation almost always occurs within care bear friendly games, and you need to start dying more often.

Anyway, HTFU and get used to it, because judging from recent interviews and dev blogs it looks like CCP agree with me.

The answer is simple:

Instead of making ganking impossible in Highsec, why not giving a better tank to industrial ships ?
Concord could arrive in time.
For example If the Hulk had an additional low slot and an additional med slot and 1000 HP more it would tank enough time with a damage controller and a large shield extender or an invulenerability shield...
Of course some miners would add a Mining upgrade more instead of a damage controller but they would know that the loss is their fault...

In 0.0 The hulk would become an interestening bait also...

It is just an idea... But it would be easy for CCP to try things like that to balanced risk/gain.