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T3 Will be supplied by "Sleepers"

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Freyya GeoCorp. Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.01.29 23:25:00 - [1] Already the prices have increased of the skillbook "Sleeper Technologies" since a devblog revealed that Sleeper will be the new race patrolling 3rd space. Seeing as it is a limited supply SB via cosmos mission i think prices will rise and supply will stay pretty much equal or rise a bit. Care to speculate on where it's going to end? Current price in Jita is 340 mil and buy orders have already been increased alot. We are heading towards a T3 bubble i'm going to have to guess. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Masque Blanc	Posted - 2009.01.29 23:39:00 - [2] The guards might be Sleepers but since there is four alien races for four human races, my money is on all the alien races being involved in the tech 3 building. Price of sleeper skill in Minmatar space is still at 200-220M, Yan Jung skill books have risen as well in Sinq and all yan jung artefacts and lore have been either bought or pulled.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.29 23:42:00 - [3] Sleepers are not aliens, they're descendants/constructs/whatever of humans from Earth too _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Jameta Cabet	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:32:00 - [4] there are 4 alien races? I thought eve was all human.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.30 02:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Jameta Cabet there are 4 alien races? I thought eve was all human. Eve is all human, but there used to be four other (possibly nonhuman) races in the area. Some exploration investigates the ruins of these former races. Sleepers are, as I very dimly understand them, supposed to be serious virtual reality addicts. They probably will view the coming human invasion as a rude distraction from their million year old NetHack game. "Hang on to my tripe rations, will you? I got to go kill some goonies."
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.30 02:37:00 - [6] Quote: as I very dimly understand them, supposed to be serious virtual reality addicts. Are you sure that they aren't people who were part of 0.0 alliances who have fallen in the past?
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.30 02:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: as I very dimly understand them, supposed to be serious virtual reality addicts. Are you sure that they aren't people who were part of 0.0 alliances who have fallen in the past? They're supposed to competent foes too.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.30 02:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Jameta Cabet there are 4 alien races? I thought eve was all human. Eve is all human, but there used to be four other (possibly nonhuman) races in the area. Some exploration investigates the ruins of these former races. Sleepers are, as I very dimly understand them, supposed to be serious virtual reality addicts. They probably will view the coming human invasion as a rude distraction from their million year old NetHack game. "Hang on to my tripe rations, will you? I got to go kill some goonies." So we can expect every pop of the ships to waft the smell of quaffe and Cheetos
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.30 03:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Jameta Cabet there are 4 alien races? I thought eve was all human. Yeah, they're Caldari, Gallente, Amarr, and Minmatar 10% for Returning Customers
Forceflow Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.30 03:35:00 - [10] Edited by: Forceflow on 30/01/2009 03:35:24 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria So we can expect every pop of the ships to waft the smell of quaffe and Cheetos And waffles. With lots of syrup.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.30 03:41:00 - [11] We can expect t3 waffles, I think they'll be known as "pancakes" 10% for Returning Customers
Dreamwalker	Posted - 2009.01.30 04:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Forceflow Edited by: Forceflow on 30/01/2009 03:35:24 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria So we can expect every pop of the ships to waft the smell of quaffe and Cheetos And waffles. With lots of syrup. I would like to see the NPC spam local as they start to blow apart.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.30 04:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Brock Nelson We can expect t3 waffles, I think they'll be known as "pancakes" You owe me a shot of rum and a diet coke
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.30 05:04:00 - [14] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Brock Nelson We can expect t3 waffles, I think they'll be known as "pancakes" You owe me a shot of rum and a diet coke Diet coke?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.30 05:44:00 - [15] Originally by: Brock Nelson Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Brock Nelson We can expect t3 waffles, I think they'll be known as "pancakes" You owe me a shot of rum and a diet coke Diet coke? All the waffles, I gotta watch my figure
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.30 09:39:00 - [16] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 30/01/2009 09:40:36 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Jameta Cabet there are 4 alien races? I thought eve was all human. Eve is all human, but there used to be four other (possibly nonhuman) races in the area. Some exploration investigates the ruins of these former races. Sleepers are, as I very dimly understand them, supposed to be serious virtual reality addicts. They probably will view the coming human invasion as a rude distraction from their million year old NetHack game. "Hang on to my tripe rations, will you? I got to go kill some goonies." So we can expect every pop of the ships to waft the smell of quaffe and Cheetos That's assuming you don't lose your ship to a level 50 tourist and a little drone named "Fido". And as Dreamwalker was saying, local is going to be epic.
Ker HarSol Minmatar Zip - I	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:47:00 - [17] Originally by: Freyya Already the prices have increased of the skillbook "Sleeper Technologies" since a devblog revealed that Sleeper will be the new race patrolling 3rd space. Seeing as it is a limited supply SB via cosmos mission i think prices will rise and supply will stay pretty much equal or rise a bit. Care to speculate on where it's going to end? Current price in Jita is 340 mil and buy orders have already been increased alot. We are heading towards a T3 bubble i'm going to have to guess. Just wait until some big guy decides to play the market and prices will go up to 1 billion At the moment it is all healthy and fine I think. Small people doing their own speculation thing, some buy, some sell and some just wait and see how it goes. Isn't it great to see the market mechanism working perfectly fine?
El'Evator	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:18:00 - [18] Most likely that if Sleepers skillbook is needed it'll spawn a lot after the expansion, like in was with race encryption devices after exploration was boosted.
Andrea Erlang Caldari Erlang Biolabs	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:27:00 - [19] I was a bit slow to cash in properly on the whole sleeper skillbook. But if you ask me, I think there will be a new book. Mostly because if we quote the description: "Basic understanding of interfacing with Sleeper technology." Basic understanding, that means mostly very basic items, as far as I'm concerned, creating a tech 3 ship, is far beyond mere basic understanding. Of course, anything that says 'sleeper' at the moment is going to sell like hot-cakes. Basically because people are hoping to get ahead, and are taking chances on wild speculations. The second thing is, the skillbook is linked to the archeology skill. While all is fine and well in the land of makebelieve. The fact remains, that this skillbook is probably aimed at archeological retrieval. In the new w-space we're going to see real examples of Sleepers. The technology that was interfaced in the COSMOS missions was probably just old relics from thousands of years ago. The sleepers have evolved, and I'm assuming so have the skills that will be required to interface with the new components. But as always, this is a speculation as well. So no one can really tell, but I sincerely doubt that this book will have anything to do.
Masque Blanc	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Andrea Erlang I was a bit slow to cash in properly on the whole sleeper skillbook. But if you ask me, I think there will be a new book. Mostly because if we quote the description: "Basic understanding of interfacing with Sleeper technology." Basic understanding, that means mostly very basic items, as far as I'm concerned, creating a tech 3 ship, is far beyond mere basic understanding. Of course, anything that says 'sleeper' at the moment is going to sell like hot-cakes. Basically because people are hoping to get ahead, and are taking chances on wild speculations. The second thing is, the skillbook is linked to the archeology skill. While all is fine and well in the land of makebelieve. The fact remains, that this skillbook is probably aimed at archeological retrieval. In the new w-space we're going to see real examples of Sleepers. The technology that was interfaced in the COSMOS missions was probably just old relics from thousands of years ago. The sleepers have evolved, and I'm assuming so have the skills that will be required to interface with the new components. But as always, this is a speculation as well. So no one can really tell, but I sincerely doubt that this book will have anything to do. The pirate encryption skill had nothing to do with tech2 before it was selected by CCP for the invention job. The ancient tech decryptors currently have attributes the same as the pirate decryptors (ancient race decryptors). There are also ancient race datacores in the eve database. We might be speculating but there is "gold in them hills".
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:30:00 - [21] Originally by: El'Evator Most likely that if Sleepers skillbook is needed it'll spawn a lot after the expansion, like in was with race encryption devices after exploration was boosted. Shhh!
Tor Anasa	Posted - 2009.01.30 14:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Joss Sparq Originally by: El'Evator Most likely that if Sleepers skillbook is needed it'll spawn a lot after the expansion, like in was with race encryption devices after exploration was boosted. Shhh! who even said they were needed at all :P
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Joss Sparq Originally by: El'Evator Most likely that if Sleepers skillbook is needed it'll spawn a lot after the expansion, like in was with race encryption devices after exploration was boosted. Shhh! Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? But who does want to wait until people go to explore stuff and drop things onto the market? It is much better to have the skill ready so that you can jumpstart building T3 as soon as you have the materials. And if you really need that skill for building, then the prices will explode at the release of the new expansion. Maybe you pay now a little overhead in speculation prices, but imagine the price rush when it is really necessary and (tens of) thousands of people want that skill!
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:15:00 - [24] Third possibility: t3 is released heavily pre-nerfed (think black ops level of nerfed here) and the feeding frenzy for it is limited to a few collector and "gotta have it on tranquility first" guys. With the end result that none of this really matters much.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Clair Bear Third possibility: t3 is released heavily pre-nerfed (think black ops level of nerfed here) and the feeding frenzy for it is limited to a few collector and "gotta have it on tranquility first" guys. With the end result that none of this really matters much. CCP does rather like to follow the rule "over promise and under deliver". maybe one day they will get it right
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:47:00 - [26] Originally by: Gnulpie But who does want to wait until people go to explore stuff and drop things onto the market? It is much better to have the skill ready so that you can jumpstart building T3 as soon as you have the materials. And if you really need that skill for building, then the prices will explode at the release of the new expansion. Maybe you pay now a little overhead in speculation prices, but imagine the price rush when it is really necessary and (tens of) thousands of people want that skill! I would be surprised if CCP restricts entry into T3 building this way. In the past, at least, they seed skillbooks in infinite quantity via NPCs so you can access whatever it is you want to do. The more restricted stuff (e.g. someone has to go out and find it and sell it) may improve your abilities to build or whatever but are not strictly necessary. As such I would be surprised if this hard to get book is required for T3. First time for everything though I suppose. The other thing to consider it everyone and their cat are going to try to cash in on T3 instantly. We saw this with Orcas. That is fine in the very short term when there is a price spike for the "new thing" but now you can find Orcas on market for less than they cost to build. So many people dog piled into there that the supply quickly outstripped demand. Some few doubtless will make a bundle, lots more though will be left holding the bag.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:51:00 - [27] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Clair Bear Third possibility: t3 is released heavily pre-nerfed (think black ops level of nerfed here) and the feeding frenzy for it is limited to a few collector and "gotta have it on tranquility first" guys. With the end result that none of this really matters much. CCP does rather like to follow the rule "over promise and under deliver". maybe one day they will get it right Yes...CCP is genetically predisposed to putting things out horrendously pre-nerfed. I strongly suspect that will be the case for T3 as well. In their view this is better to see how things work and tweak up than to introduce some hugely game unbalancing thing and then have to nerf it to the squawks of displeasure from the community that is enjoying their imbalanced whatever-it-is. For a change as big as T3 and complex with 12,000+ possible ship configurations I think we have to expect T3 ships to be as capable as a wet noodle for most things. Hope I'm wrong about that though.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.01.30 15:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h ...in the past, at least, they seed skillbooks in infinite quantity via NPCs so you can access whatever it is you want to do... Erm, might I remind you at invention? First there were those pirate faction skillbooks (angel encryption methods etc.), then those skillbooks were changed into racial invention skillbooks (minmatar encryption methods). Where were those skillbooks seeded in infinity quantities? And you still can find them only via exploration (and cosmos maybe, not sure)! The first t2 skillbooks were sold for hundreds of millions each. And those who paid that much for them still made tons of profit because they were the first to invent stuff and reap big profits while prices were still insane high! Now the t2 invention is a mass market, but it was not always like this and I am quite sure you remember that. And the t2 racial encryption skillbooks are still in no way seeded in infinite quantities on the npc market!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 16:31:00 - [29] Originally by: Gnulpie Originally by: Imperator Jora'h ...in the past, at least, they seed skillbooks in infinite quantity via NPCs so you can access whatever it is you want to do... Erm, might I remind you at invention? First there were those pirate faction skillbooks (angel encryption methods etc.), then those skillbooks were changed into racial invention skillbooks (minmatar encryption methods). Where were those skillbooks seeded in infinity quantities? And you still can find them only via exploration (and cosmos maybe, not sure)! The first t2 skillbooks were sold for hundreds of millions each. And those who paid that much for them still made tons of profit because they were the first to invent stuff and reap big profits while prices were still insane high! Now the t2 invention is a mass market, but it was not always like this and I am quite sure you remember that. And the t2 racial encryption skillbooks are still in no way seeded in infinite quantities on the npc market! That is all true but access to building T2 items could be done via just training regularly available skills from NPCs. If you won the lottery or bought a T2 BPO you could build the stuff. Invention was just a special way to get your hands on a T2 BP so obtaining the necessary skills to do that were likewise special (special as in not an NPC infinite item). I am just saying CCP generally makes a "normal" path available to all to such things and then seeds special items to either be better at it or provide and alternate route to such a game mechanic as building T3. And yeah...there will be a lot of money to be made in the first few weeks of T3. Always plenty of people who want the new things first and are willing to pay a premium for it. Just remember pretty much everyone else in EVE is thinking the same thing so expect a dogpile into these markets in the first few days. The people best able to exploit all this will be 0.0 alliance peeps who will have access to semi-private W-Space ("semi" as in no one but them will be flying through their wormholes to bug them and compete for rats...of course there could be a connection from somewhere else too so maybe not totally theirs). Those guys will be sitting on scads of minerals and manufacturing capacity and T2 comps and the rest. If you are an Empire dweller best of luck to you. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.01.30 16:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I am just saying CCP generally makes a "normal" path available to all to such things and then seeds special items to either be better at it or provide and alternate route to such a game mechanic as building T3. I don't know. Sure in theory there is such a "normal" path. But that doesn't apply to how it works in-game. If you enter the game now as a new char, your only reasonable option is to invent t2 items, there is no way (except that you would buy a t2 bpo which is unlikely to happen for most of the chars anyway) for the new guy to get a t2 bpo. While it is in theory possible that someone can build from a t2 bpo and doesn't need that racial encryption skill, it is in 'reality' of eve not a possibility which can be applied. There those racial skills are a MUST HAVE. And since ccp stopped that t2 bpo lottery (and that was good) and invented invention it is not unreasonable to imagine that something similar happens with t3 where you need some skills first before you can manufacture things. Sure, all is speculation at the moment. But they are not without reasoning.
War Fairy	Posted - 2009.01.30 17:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I would be surprised if CCP restricts entry into T3 building this way. In the past, at least, they seed skillbooks in infinite quantity via NPCs so you can access whatever it is you want to do. The more restricted stuff (e.g. someone has to go out and find it and sell it) may improve your abilities to build or whatever but are not strictly necessary. As such I would be surprised if this hard to get book is required for T3. First time for everything though I suppose. Second time. Invention started exactly as you stated above. When first released you could make a killing with skillbooks and interfaces.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 18:02:00 - [32] Originally by: War Fairy Second time. Invention started exactly as you stated above. When first released you could make a killing with skillbooks and interfaces. Second time...before Invention was introduced you could build T2 without all that. As noted things are different today but when it was introduced Invention was not the sole path to T2 building.
Freyya GeoCorp. Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.01.30 18:08:00 - [33] Edited by: Freyya on 30/01/2009 18:14:39 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: War Fairy Second time. Invention started exactly as you stated above. When first released you could make a killing with skillbooks and interfaces. Second time...before Invention was introduced you could build T2 without all that. As noted things are different today but when it was introduced Invention was not the sole path to T2 building. You seem to forget this was done in a poorly manner and admitted by CCP nonetheless. T2 BPO lotteries where the first step towards the system now. A poorly designed step at that. After CCP thought of a way to introduce a better manner of T2 production invention became the norm. Before that it was extremely one sided and all kinds of monopolies existed. CCP would like to return the decision of T2 BPOs but they can't simply take them away and say go invent stuff. That is the reason why most people believe T3 will follow the same rules and that is why the whole "T2 production was possible before invention" is not even in the equation. There is absolutely no indication that the skillbooks needed will be seeded to the market in any manner. The Skillbooks and other stuff WILL be THE way to make isk quick when 3rd space hits. On a different note and why i started this topic in the first place: Where the Sleeper skillbooks where being sold for 200 mil the price has risen to above 320 mil and in jita the sell price is coming up to 450 mil now. Speculation at it's best. It's just a shame i didn't hang on to my books just one day longer . The following devblogs will make them either rise higher or drop like a brick in a pond. I know i've made a profit today ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 19:09:00 - [34] Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 30/01/2009 18:14:39 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: War Fairy Second time. Invention started exactly as you stated above. When first released you could make a killing with skillbooks and interfaces. Second time...before Invention was introduced you could build T2 without all that. As noted things are different today but when it was introduced Invention was not the sole path to T2 building. You seem to forget this was done in a poorly manner and admitted by CCP nonetheless. T2 BPO lotteries where the first step towards the system now. A poorly designed step at that. After CCP thought of a way to introduce a better manner of T2 production invention became the norm. Before that it was extremely one sided and all kinds of monopolies existed. CCP would like to return the decision of T2 BPOs but they can't simply take them away and say go invent stuff. That is the reason why most people believe T3 will follow the same rules and that is why the whole "T2 production was possible before invention" is not even in the equation. There is absolutely no indication that the skillbooks needed will be seeded to the market in any manner. The Skillbooks and other stuff WILL be THE way to make isk quick when 3rd space hits. I hear you and agree that the lottery thing sucked. I was just pointing out that originally they did not narrow the opportunity to new content by restricting access to the skills. Later they did but by then T2 was well established and those who already had a T2 BPO could continue to build without needing to access the invention skills. All that said you are probably right. T3 is the next step up the ladder and in typical game fashion the more advanced stuff becomes more difficult to access. One aspect of that could be restricting the ability to make the stuff to skill books that must be found. Given how they did booster production that even seems likely. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Red lensman Gallente BlackSky inc. Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.02.07 00:22:00 - [35] They said that the skills to access W-Space will be relased by a tree'ed mission and from whats said i'd guess some of the needed skills will come from that then the rest needed will come from w-hole space
Astarte Nosferatu Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.07 16:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Masque Blanc Yan Jung skill books have risen as well in Sinq and all yan jung artefacts and lore have been either bought or pulled. Yeah, that was me. Had a few bil lying around, might as well spend it on useless junk.
Raymon James Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.02.07 21:20:00 - [37] Actualy with as many datacore alts as theirs seems to be out there you could argue that T2 is also being supplied by sleepers(alts that only wake up to pull their latest batch of RP out of the virtual oven)
mark atrelli	Posted - 2009.02.12 06:43:00 - [38] well now that you have all had some time on the test server. what are your ideas about the skills and such?

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