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Impressions of first lvl 2 missions

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Moments	Posted - 2009.02.01 23:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Moments on 02/02/2009 00:01:04 Well, I finally reached lvl 2 missions, and have kinda hit a point where everything in EVE was actually starting to make sense, my damage was pretty good, and generally the lvl 1 missions were easy in my Frigate, but then i hit lvl 2 missions and it all goes down the pan. Suddenly, the rats are dealing huge damage - 100 hits, so I use my new cruiser to survive, and assume better weapons = more damage, but apparantly not, vs the frigates I can barely scratch them, always missing or dealing strangely low damage. My skills are really good in Gunnery, with several fittings increasing tracking speed to help hit Frigates. Not really sure what I'm suppose to be doing here, fitting a cruiser with small frigate size weapons (which seems abit backwards) or just flying in with a Frigate and trying to deal as much damage as possible before warping out. Atm I'm using a Moa with 4 250mm Railguns and an Assault Missile Launcher, I seem to deal very low damage now in Lvl 2 Missions - just an example, before my railguns would hit for 90-100 each, missing not all that much with my fittings active, but now in lvl 2 usually hitting for 20-30 :/ Have enjoyed Eve so far, even paid for more after trial (2 days ago), but now my enthusiasm for getting "upgrades" and progressing seems to be diminishing since hitting this wall where i'm being penalized for getting better ships/fittings.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Public Funded War Targets	Posted - 2009.02.02 00:31:00 - [2] I'm actually rather impressed that you hit frigates at all with that setup :) Medium sized weapons do good damage aginst medium sized targets, but suck against smaller ships. The best counter to frigs is to learn to use drones and use light drones to pop them in seconds. Of course, not all cruisers have drone bays. Alternatives are use a webber, target painter (especially for missiles) and various tracking enhancing modules.
MooKids Caldari Dark Echo Engineering	Posted - 2009.02.02 00:36:00 - [3] Bigger guns will always have trouble hitting smaller ships, but can hit them. If the target has a low orbital velocity around you, then it will be easier to hit, tracking comes into play. Also the target's lower signature radius will make it more difficult to hit. I don't know where the gunnery guide is, someone should post it shortly. This is where drones start becoming practical. The Moa can fit 3 Light Drones, which should be sufficient to take on most Lvl 2 Frigates. Use your main guns on the other cruisers and use your Assault Missile Launcher against the frigates. -------------------------------- CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity.
Grimfang Wyrmspawn	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:00:00 - [4] You can try fitting items such as tracking enhancers (low slot) or a tracking computer running a tracking speed script (medium slot). Skill up motion predicition. Are you trying to engage them in close or at range? As the others have said, in close use drones and assault missile launchers. At range the 250MM should shred them nicely.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.02 01:07:00 - [5] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 02/02/2009 01:11:33 Quote: Not really sure what I'm suppose to be doing here, fitting a cruiser with small frigate size weapons (which seems abit backwards) or just flying in with a Frigate and trying to deal as much damage as possible before warping out. Atm I'm using a Moa with 4 250mm Railguns and an Assault Missile Launcher, I seem to deal very low damage now in Lvl 2 Missions - just an example, before my railguns would hit for 90-100 each, missing not all that much with my fittings active, but now in lvl 2 usually hitting for 20-30 :/ Have enjoyed Eve so far, even paid for more after trial (2 days ago), but now my enthusiasm for getting "upgrades" and progressing seems to be diminishing since hitting this wall where i'm being penalized for getting better ships/fittings. EVE isn't a game where bigger = better. Open overview settings, go to columns, and show angular velocity. Minimize that. Remember that railguns are long-range guns, and as such have crappy tracking. Try to keep range-you'll never hit the frigates if they're orbiting you point blank. You could try reverting to smaller-sized guns of the same class...that is, still have medium railguns, but smaller medium railguns. Also, the moa has a good drone bay for a cruiser-15 m3. You could easily fit 3 light drones which would kill frigate rats without too much issue. Quote: Have enjoyed Eve so far, even paid for more after trial (2 days ago), but now my enthusiasm for getting "upgrades" and progressing seems to be diminishing since hitting this wall where i'm being penalized for getting better ships/fittings. Since this is a point worth repeating over and over and over: Bigger /= better Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Etria Issen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.02 02:56:00 - [6] Well bigger is only better on other big things ;) Trying to hit little Frigates with anything beyond Small is more difficult for all the mentioned reasons. If you recall in some Lv1 missions you had to tackle a Cruiser or two and should've noted they rarely hit you - and when they did it was for a tiny amount of damage.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.02 03:19:00 - [7] The fact you can do anything in missions with a low damage ship (Moa) fit with badly tracked, low damage weapons (rails) is mystifying tbh Drop that for a Caracal with light assault launchers. That'll do the trick.
Tai Paktu Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.02.02 03:47:00 - [8] If you insist on using the Moa, try something like [Moa, Moa - lvl 2s] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II 10MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Booster II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hornet II x3 Put together without much :effort: so it may turn out to be a terribad Moa fitting, but then again the Moa isn't all that great to start with (beyond being nice, cheap T1 sniper support). Assuming Guristas rats. Carry some Thorium M with you too for range, upgrade to better named guns if you have the ISK. Like Dirk said, an Assault Launcher Caracal may be better suited to what you're after though. If you can't fit some of the above mods, you'd be better off running the lvl 1s in your frig until you can use them. Many a cruiser (and battlecruiser, and battleship) have been lost to poorly skilled pilots trying to use them before having the support necessary to do so. Bigger doesn't mean better. Specialization means better.
Moments	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:08:00 - [9] Edited by: Moments on 02/02/2009 09:11:49 Well, I sure wish someone (in game guide) would of told me Railguns were useless :) Why do devs have weapons in the game if they suck...? I get the impression no weapon in the game is viable except for missiles, which I doubt is true especially from experience being killed always by something other than missiles. Oh well, looks like i've gone down a weapon/playstyle that is gimp, doh. Will give 4-5 x 150mm duals a try though and see how it fairs vs frigates, just my 250mm do so much more damage than missiles did, with a MUCH faster rate of fire :/
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 02/02/2009 09:54:44 Rail guns are great. They let you destroy the enemy from beyond the enemies range so that you don't even get hit. You just have to know how to use them. 1) Fly your ship so that you cut down on the amount of traversing the turrets do. Kiting the rats along behind you as you use your AB to keep ahead of them helps. When fighting lots of small ships with a bigger or better one this is what you want to do. The enemy tactic is to swarm you - don't let them do that. Fit big, long range guns and keep them at your stern to cut down on their angular momentum. 2) Train Motion Prediction. 3) Fit a Target Painter. This will increase their signature radius and make them easier to hit. 4) Fit a webber. If any of them get close to you - hit them with the Webber, the missiles and the Drones while you continue to shoot at the ones trying to close with your big guns. 5) Train up your drone skills. Drone Interfacing greatly improves their effectiveness. Good drone skills will let your drones chew through those frigates in no time. Thus, you use your big guns on big targets if you've got any while your drones and missiles take out the small ones - which after being painted and webbed are no longer small and not nearly as fast. And ... OBTW ... I had the exact same problem when I first moved to Cruisers - doing the above fixed that.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:35:00 - [11] Fitting the biggest guns you can find is almost never a good idea, for all the reasons people posted in this thread. This game takes effort, planning and tactics more than just trying to get the biggest sword. Also, when doing missions the first thing you need to work out is to stay alive, so fit/work on your tanking first. Once you're able to actually stay in the fight (SP/setup wise) THEN you start thinking about doing damage and there you'll have to consider the type of targets you meet. So then you'll have to come up with a tactic (that actually works) against those targets and fit accordingly. Just fitting the biggest guns and a load of damage mods isn't gonnawork.
Adaera	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:57:00 - [12] Your main problem is choice of ship. Moa with 250mm guns will have serious problems hitting anything small. Try a Caracal with assault missile launchers; it's cheaper and will effortlessly wipe out just about anything level 2s can throw at you.
Latrodanes	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Adaera Your main problem is choice of ship. Moa with 250mm guns will have serious problems hitting anything small. Try a Caracal with assault missile launchers; it's cheaper and will effortlessly wipe out just about anything level 2s can throw at you. Ahhh, but where's the joy in that. I gave up my Cara a long time ago for my ugly Moa. Rails take more thought, tactics and as such keep missions a bit...just a bit...more lively. I've never looked back. I fit 3x250s (LR damage) and 2xdual-150s (fitting issues and faster ROF at mid-range) along with an AML for the high slots. I manage distance with an AB and use drones for when wee lil things get too close. I have 2xMagStab IIs and 2xTracking Enhancer IIs in lows. So many things die so quickly.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Public Funded War Targets	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Moments Well, I sure wish someone (in game guide) would of told me Railguns were useless :) Nothing in the games (with very few exceptions) is useless. Railguns are actually very good for missions, allowing you to keep range and still do decent damage. For PVP this is rarely the case, things usually happen at closer range, but even there it can be very useful to snipe at enemies that have only close range weapons. For PVP people usually fit blasters. Same tradeoffs apply to any type of weapon. You will have to learn how to minimize the targets transversal velocity to optimize you chance to hit.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:16:00 - [15] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 02/02/2009 18:16:07 Quote: Well, I sure wish someone (in game guide) would of told me Railguns were useless :) Why do devs have weapons in the game if they suck...? I get the impression no weapon in the game is viable except for missiles, which I doubt is true especially from experience being killed always by something other than missiles. Oh well, looks like i've gone down a weapon/playstyle that is gimp, doh. Will give 4-5 x 150mm duals a try though and see how it fairs vs frigates, just my 250mm do so much more damage than missiles did, with a MUCH faster rate of fire :/ Been said before, nothing is useless. PVE isn't really all that well balanced because EVE is a PVP game. The moa isn't great for missions, but for PVP it allows you to take out a gang's small/support ships at a huge range. In fact, the caldari gunboats are in most cases the best snipers of their class. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Etria Issen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.02 18:19:00 - [16] I hear for frigate swarms a good counter to them is to drop a Smartbomb. It'll blow most of them into space debris. But for Cruisers and beyond for Frigates you want to have either Drones, Smartbombs, or Target Painters ideally. Without any of these Frigates will take a long time to destroy once they get in close and will slowly pick your ship apart.
Xephys Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.02 19:31:00 - [17] As suggested before, sell the Moa and the fittings and buy a Caracal, fit it with AMLs. It'll prove to be much better for those level 2s. [Caracal, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System I Local Power Plant Manager: Diagnostic System I 10MN Afterburner I Medium Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier I Invulnerability Field I Barton Reactor Capacitor Recharger I 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile 'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher, Sabretooth Light Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Warrior I x2 This is a quick fit I made with mostly T1/named stuff which should easily suffice in any level 2 mission. Change to T2 where applicable and download EFT to see how else you can fit your ship, it's a really good tool to see if you can fit the ship the way you want it and how it performs. Just don't rely on it too much.
Moments	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:06:00 - [18] Is there any other way to increase / decrease Signature Resolution or Signature Radius? Target Painter helps, and tbh my tracking speed is fine with skills/fittings - using Tracking Computer with Tracking Speed script and also Tracking Enhancer. I see the problem now that my medium railgun being "too big" to hit the smaller ship, it hits quite alot, just abit frustrating missing shots.
Grista	Posted - 2009.02.02 20:13:00 - [19] Edited by: Grista on 02/02/2009 20:14:44 Originally by: Moments Is there any other way to increase / decrease Signature Resolution or Signature Radius? Target Painter helps, and tbh my tracking speed is fine with skills/fittings - using Tracking Computer with Tracking Speed script and also Tracking Enhancer. I see the problem now that my medium railgun being "too big" to hit the smaller ship, it hits quite alot, just abit frustrating missing shots. For level 2 missions, you really want the Caracal with assault launchers, as noted above. If you can't afford or fit Arbalest, any named launcher is fine. You can also forgo fitting a booster + amplifier, and fit 2 hardeners (mission npc specific) + 2 large extenders. I've also done them in a Rupture, but the caldari missile boats all make missioning so easy, there's no good reason to use anything else.
Dawts Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.02.02 22:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Tai Paktu If you insist on using the Moa, try something like [Moa, Moa - lvl 2s] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II 10MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Booster II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Sabretooth Light Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hornet II x3 Put together without much :effort: so it may turn out to be a terribad Moa fitting, but then again the Moa isn't all that great to start with (beyond being nice, cheap T1 sniper support). Assuming Guristas rats. Carry some Thorium M with you too for range, upgrade to better named guns if you have the ISK. Like Dirk said, an Assault Launcher Caracal may be better suited to what you're after though. If you can't fit some of the above mods, you'd be better off running the lvl 1s in your frig until you can use them. Many a cruiser (and battlecruiser, and battleship) have been lost to poorly skilled pilots trying to use them before having the support necessary to do so. Bigger doesn't mean better. Specialization means better. I love seeing the "tech 2 or don't fly it" posts. What makes you think that someone who is just starting lvl 2s and doesn't really understand tracking is going have the isk/skills for tech 2. I didn't upgrade to tech 2 gear until I started running level 3s. To me level 2s were the exact same as level 1s, but had a few cruiser spawns. So what I did was fit up a cruiser similar to my frigate focused on tank, added a little gank (extra mid slots and more high slots) and there was no problem at all. lamefakeedit: I used a 1600mm plated small blaster thorax
Researchy Mcgee	Posted - 2009.02.02 23:48:00 - [21] Quote: In fact, the caldari gunboats are in most cases the best snipers of their class. I think you mean amarr... the zealot (Heavy attack cruiser) and the Apocalpse class battleship have far superiour tracking, beautiful for sniping.. The Eagles range is good for sniping SS'd inty's but I would personally prefer tanking the Eagle. Rokh Vs. Apoc sniper? Apoc wins Nothing to do with this thread but I don't want the new fellow getting the wrong info
Baltara	Posted - 2009.02.03 02:11:00 - [22] Edited by: Baltara on 03/02/2009 02:12:22 I run Lvl 2's in a passive buffer tanked Moa with 4x 250mm "Scout" rails. The only problems I have are with missions like Damsel that drop you right into the middle of a blob of rats. When that happens I align with empty space, light the burner, and take out what I can over the stern. I warp out if my shields get hammered and then come back for the rest. Once the groups close to warp in are clear I snipe the rest at 62km optimal with iron, insta-popping frigs. If a few rats get too close I can switch to Anti Matter and sic my little buddies on them while I kite. I also have a Caracal on a newbier combat alt who was born with good missle skills and can vouch for it's effectiveness on L2's.
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.02.05 03:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 02/02/2009 09:54:44 Rail guns are great. They let you destroy the enemy from beyond the enemies range so that you don't even get hit. You just have to know how to use them. 1) Fly your ship so that you cut down on the amount of traversing the turrets do. Kiting the rats along behind you as you use your AB to keep ahead of them helps. When fighting lots of small ships with a bigger or better one this is what you want to do. The enemy tactic is to swarm you - don't let them do that. Fit big, long range guns and keep them at your stern to cut down on their angular momentum. 2) Train Motion Prediction. 3) Fit a Target Painter. This will increase their signature radius and make them easier to hit. 4) Fit a webber. If any of them get close to you - hit them with the Webber, the missiles and the Drones while you continue to shoot at the ones trying to close with your big guns. 5) Train up your drone skills. Drone Interfacing greatly improves their effectiveness. Good drone skills will let your drones chew through those frigates in no time. Thus, you use your big guns on big targets if you've got any while your drones and missiles take out the small ones - which after being painted and webbed are no longer small and not nearly as fast. And ... OBTW ... I had the exact same problem when I first moved to Cruisers - doing the above fixed that. "Bows down in awe" This is the best advise you can get. Keep it on hand and dont loose it. Ever.
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2009.02.05 21:50:00 - [24] Has anybody mentioned that what you really need is RANGE? Your railguns can't hit a frigate that is orbiting at high velocity at close range. Put an afterburner on that Moa and move away from the frigate you're shooting (use the "keep at range" button) so that it is moving toward your gun in a straight line. You should pop it no problem. I pop frigates all the time in my Apocalypse (a battleship) but not closer than 20km. Just back off a bit and gun down the little rats. Also use light drones on them. .............
Bo'Tox Amarr Arkor Inc	Posted - 2009.02.05 22:56:00 - [25] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker Has anybody mentioned that what you really need is RANGE? Your railguns can't hit a frigate that is orbiting at high velocity at close range. Put an afterburner on that Moa and move away from the frigate you're shooting (use the "keep at range" button) so that it is moving toward your gun in a straight line. You should pop it no problem. I pop frigates all the time in my Apocalypse (a battleship) but not closer than 20km. Just back off a bit and gun down the little rats. Also use light drones on them. Again, bows down in awe! This also wins - 2 winners of Eve - "whodathunkit?" By keeping the distance at greater than 20KM's you can use the big guns with their good tracking (on an apoc, anyway) and if they are closer than 20KM's then switch to drones...
Elysarian Minmatar dudetruck corp	Posted - 2009.02.05 23:12:00 - [26] I flew a Destroyer in my L2 days... but I fly exclusively my own race's ships (with the exception of mining barges/exhumers). Look up PvE fits for a Cormorant - you should be able to fly that in lvl 2's, then up to a BC for L3 missions. Added advantages of Destroyers is that they're faster than cruisers, they eat frigates for breakfast and you can uaually salvage in them too. ===================================== It smells of spoon! =====================================
Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers	Posted - 2009.02.06 20:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Bo'Tox By keeping the distance at greater than 20KM's you can use the big guns with their good tracking (on an apoc, anyway) and if they are closer than 20KM's then switch to drones... In addition, the NPCs signature radii get larger as they use their MWDs to close with you. So they not only have lower angular velocity, they are bigger, as well.

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