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All (ewar/support) modules "miss" instead of end repeat.

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Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 278	Posted - 2012.04.21 06:29:00 - [1] - Quote Turrets and launchers will keep cycling when a target is out of range. This makes sense for launchers due to travel time, but for turrets this is often more a matter of convenience and network traffic. This is fine, these things make sense. What doesn't make sense, wastes network traffic, and puts people with worse connections/computers/reactions at a disadvantage are modules that only work while in range and then deactivate when out of range. By instead having eWar, Support and energy neutralizer modules miss when out of range instead of deactivating, there's a number of effects it would have. (possibly) Less network traffic (fewer initiations/cancellations). May increase traffic from event reports by the server, but this is greater download traffic rather than upload traffic for the user. Will probably increase frequency of events to be processed by server, can't exactly predict the behavior cause by changes. Slow players (mentally like me or with slow connections or computers) are at less disadvantage by having to worry less by timing. More management is necessary to prevent wasting cap or aggression, strategy to feint (get close, avoid getting too close) does more than force wasting ammunition or aggression. Cancelling activation is necessary to change targets. Players will not have to work as hard to remember differing ranges when under bonuses or overheating. Less button spamming, thousands of keyboards and fingers will weep in relief. Less spamming means less accidental deactivation. More log messages, could be annoying for some, could be useful for metric analysis. Can give away the intent of aggressors to uncertain victims sooner, hostiles would have to time their actual aggression a little more closely instead of relying on convenience. Defenders can start active defense without waiting for aggressors or unknowns to get near. Could increase the incidence of aggression, requiring more patience and awareness of consequences while also being less concerned about changes in behavior. Less work in multitasking, considering multiple ranges that fluctuate rapidly like when orbiting at high speed. Overall, this would demand more consequential consideration and less attention to many numbers which people generally suck at paying attention to. There may be some minor performance benefit in this. Necromancy ships: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1145308&#post1145308
Halete Teraa Matar White-Lotus 85	Posted - 2012.04.21 16:21:00 - [2] - Quote Supporting this just because mashing a Module when I'm entering a range doesn't add any depth to the game, just more clicks. Unless you can click perfectly the moment you enter your Module's range, when accounting for ping, every single time to the precise moment there's no reason not to like this. Remembers, fly Frigates - Capsuleers are more tenacious than baseliner crews.-á
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 280	Posted - 2012.04.21 16:33:00 - [3] - Quote Oh, also, due to the discrepancy between the server and client and also the delay in refreshing of the UI, the numbers we see aren't ever accurate unless everyone's sitting still. We have to predict that we'll be in range by the time the server receives our call to activate a module. http://www.cracked.com/article_19776_6-disasters-caused-by-poorly-designed-user-interfaces.html Not saying that the EVE UI is poorly designed, it's just that there's limitations in technology we can't really cope for. There is always a delay in network communication, there is always the delay in the server processing the command, there is always the delay in getting feedback on the client's command. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98914
Rek Jaiga Teraa Matar White-Lotus 254	Posted - 2012.04.21 16:42:00 - [4] - Quote I can see the issues raised here, and agree that something should be implemented. I have friends who don't have the reaction speeds that FPS players like me have, so it would certainly benefit them if they could just activate, say, nos or scram and simply have them "miss" when out of range. This wouldn't be overpowered either, as someone using this system to compensate for lag would still expend capacitor, even if the module "missed". So in the end, the more skilled/quicker player is still rewarded, but it also gives opportunities to folks less able to keep up (for whatever reason).
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 280	Posted - 2012.04.21 16:58:00 - [5] - Quote I likened this to kernel preemption; by sacrificing some processor time to make your Start menu pop up when you click it, the user benefits emotionally and economically by accomplishing the tasks the want to accomplish instead of waiting on their Antivirus to finish a background scan they didn't expect to begin. What this change does is reward that attention to numbers still and penalizes poor timing by wasting cap/aggression/charges, but the user benefits emotionally and economically by succeeding in activating their modules without fear of error or the frustration associated in not having the opportunity to make the not-green module green. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98914
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 292	Posted - 2012.04.25 23:12:00 - [6] - Quote I am totally bumping this because me. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98914
Halete Teraa Matar White-Lotus 108	Posted - 2012.05.01 20:05:00 - [7] - Quote Finding it hard to believe that nobody else has any input for this. Dirty heretical muld-child, reporting in.
Dux Bellorum Zebra Corp En Garde 0	Posted - 2012.05.09 03:12:00 - [8] - Quote I dig this concept.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 48	Posted - 2012.05.09 07:49:00 - [9] - Quote You mean, I can activate my scrambler when my target is not in scramble range? That's not gonna be frustrating when my target warps off while the module is still active.... This COULD be viable, if the modules only pulsed (like cloaks) when target is out of range, and then activate as soon as he is in range, but this is a bit meh. Too little management involved, and no thinking needed
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 209	Posted - 2012.05.09 11:01:00 - [10] - Quote Hannott Thanos wrote: You mean, I can activate my scrambler when my target is not in scramble range? That's not gonna be frustrating when my target warps off while the module is still active.... This COULD be viable, if the modules only pulsed (like cloaks) when target is out of range, and then activate as soon as he is in range, but this is a bit meh. Too little management involved, and no thinking needed Thinking is still involved, otherwise you're going to become complacent and not realize your module is no longer taking effect. Right now it's actually easier to pay attention to but does require a lot more button mashing. I think this is a good idea, really. Some visual indication for modules that aren't working because of range would be nice, like a yellow pulsing background. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window.
Kitt JT League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda 42	Posted - 2012.05.09 11:24:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah, this would be nice. Too many times i've sat there mashing the warp disruptor button trying to get a point, only to hit it red again.... Plus, makes people who fly curses, or bhaalgorns or something able to easily ***** on mails :P
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 298	Posted - 2012.05.10 15:11:00 - [12] - Quote It's also more consistent to have all modules act the same. All modules should always try to work, even if they fail. This is particularly helpful when you "prime" your modules during lock and the only things that fire by the time they're out of range are your guns, which might be missing anyways. It would also be nice if all modules had an optimal and falloff, especially modules with binary effects. Say, a warp disruptor at 50% falloff will have a .5 warp scramble strength. This doesn't mean a damned thing for one person with a warp disruptor, but if two people with disruptors are just out of range they'll still succeed together. If scramblers had falloff, that means that at one range they will negate 2 points and at another they will only do 1 point, and also their effectiveness at blocking MWD could be variable instead of instant. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. [ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ] Identify "North" [ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ]
NiGhTTraX FISKL GUARDS Nulli Secunda 35	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:18:00 - [13] - Quote No to falloff for points. It's a feat being able to outmaneuver two guys that have points on you. Now you want to make it even harder by increasing the range of points by 50%. Aphoxema G wrote: Slow players (mentally like me or with slow connections or computers) are at less disadvantage by having to worry less by timing. It's not the game's fault for you or anyone else being slow. As in a traditional FPS, if you fail to move your crosshair fast enough towards the victims head, it's your own fault. You are trying to remove the importance of skill from the game. Imagine Counter-Strike where your crosshair always stays on the guys head and you just have to click to shoot. Certain pilots in the game have a reputation for being able to make fast decisions under pressure. Why on earth do you want to dumb EVE down ?! PvP is not about 1-click-wins. You don't warp in and activate your guns and expect to win. You have to be prepared to change your tactic on the fly, adapt to whatever the enemy is throwing at you. That includes manually flying to lower transversal, overheating your point at the last second before the enemy warps out, switching targets based on proximity, velocity, available ammo, incoming and outgoing DPS etc. So yes, stuff should shut down when you're out of range. That means that the player should pay attention to the status of his modules. The decision of reactivating the modules at the proper moment should belong entirely to the player, not an AI. Aphoxema G wrote: Cancelling activation is necessary to change targets. Oh yeah, this totally makes sense. You're suggesting that I should spam the button to change targets when the module isn't even active yet. Yeah, so much better than spamming it when it's active. I totally agree............ Aphoxema G wrote: Players will not have to work as hard to remember differing ranges when under bonuses or overheating. Again, why dumb EVE down? I'm sorry, no, just plain no. Learn to play EVE well or at least don't come whining that certain players are better than you. I'd like to be able to implement all the stupid ideas people suggest. Then go on TQ and ruin their day with them. Uber tractor beams? Sure, I'll tractor you around with me. Uber bubbles? Sure, I'll bubble you in Jita. Uber punishments for pirates? Sure, I'll make everyone not buy your minerals anymore.
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 299	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:43:00 - [14] - Quote NiGhTTraX wrote: It's not the game's fault for you or anyone else being slow. As in a traditional FPS, if you fail to move your crosshair fast enough towards the victims head, it's your own fault. You are trying to remove the importance of skill from the game. Imagine Counter-Strike where your crosshair always stays on the guys head and you just have to click to shoot. Certain pilots in the game have a reputation for being able to make fast decisions under pressure. Why on earth do you want to dumb EVE down ?! EVE is not an FPS, it's a naval combat and socioeconomic simulator. This actually does nothing to dumb anything down, it's a mechanical change that still benefits faster people but does not negatively impact people with slower computers or connections. NiGhTTraX wrote: PvP is not about 1-click-wins. You don't warp in and activate your guns and expect to win. You have to be prepared to change your tactic on the fly, adapt to whatever the enemy is throwing at you. That includes manually flying to lower transversal, overheating your point at the last second before the enemy warps out, switching targets based on proximity, velocity, available ammo, incoming and outgoing DPS etc. So yes, stuff should shut down when you're out of range. That means that the player should pay attention to the status of his modules. The decision of reactivating the modules at the proper moment should belong entirely to the player, not an AI. These factors are not lost to this change. A failed module is still a failed attempt, and actually punishes a person for failure by costing them capacitor and flags them for aggression. It is still perfectly necessary to be fast and make a good decision. NiGhTTraX wrote: Oh yeah, this totally makes sense. You're suggesting that I should spam the button to change targets when the module isn't even active yet. Yeah, so much better than spamming it when it's active. I totally agree............ Like turrets and missile launchers, shooting at a new target will require actively abandoning the old one instead of just waiting for them to get out of range. NiGhTTraX wrote: Again, why dumb EVE down? I'm sorry, no, just plain no. Learn to play EVE well or at least don't come whining that certain players are better than you. In reality, this will do nothing to stop me from losing to people that are better than me and will actually punish me for being wasteful. I'm not whining, I'm offering a solution for a problem and inconsistency I have percieved. I'm not dumbing anything down, I'm trying to change a mechanic I find flawed. Nothing I have suggested makes the game any easier, it only empowers people to do what they are trying to do without being disadvantaged by inevitable differences inherent in having non-identical hardware and locations in the worldwide network. What this accomplishes is punishing stupidity while making just being slow less harmful. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. [ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ] Identify "North" [ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ]
Halete Teraa Matar White-Lotus 120	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:48:00 - [15] - Quote Aphoxema comes along and suggests a mechanical change that would make game-play more fluid / reduce button mashing, but punish lazy/worse players. Neanderthal comes along and flames thread for making the game easier for bad players. I love forums. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
NiGhTTraX FISKL GUARDS Nulli Secunda 35	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:53:00 - [16] - Quote Halete wrote: Aphoxema comes along and suggests a mechanical change that would make game-play more fluid / reduce button mashing, but punish lazy/worse players. Neanderthal comes along and flames thread for making the game easier for bad players. I love forums. And you are? And your contribution to this thread is? I'd like to be able to implement all the stupid ideas people suggest. Then go on TQ and ruin their day with them. Uber tractor beams? Sure, I'll tractor you around with me. Uber bubbles? Sure, I'll bubble you in Jita. Uber punishments for pirates? Sure, I'll make everyone not buy your minerals anymore.
Halete Teraa Matar White-Lotus 120	Posted - 2012.05.10 16:59:00 - [17] - Quote NiGhTTraX wrote: Halete wrote: Aphoxema comes along and suggests a mechanical change that would make game-play more fluid / reduce button mashing, but punish lazy/worse players. Neanderthal comes along and flames thread for making the game easier for bad players. I love forums. And you are? And your contribution to this thread is? More than yours, buddy. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in.
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 299	Posted - 2012.05.10 17:01:00 - [18] - Quote NiGhTTraX wrote: Halete wrote: Aphoxema comes along and suggests a mechanical change that would make game-play more fluid / reduce button mashing, but punish lazy/worse players. Neanderthal comes along and flames thread for making the game easier for bad players. I love forums. And you are? And your contribution to this thread is? You're suggesting that your opinion has more value than another person's. While this can be objectively true, depending on what each opinion provides, this is an impractical position to take as a default and does nothing to improve your own argument. It would be more productive to simply ask for Halete's opinion on the matter or ignore her entirely rather than try to discount her as a person. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. [ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ] Identify "North" [ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ]
NiGhTTraX FISKL GUARDS Nulli Secunda 35	Posted - 2012.05.10 17:07:00 - [19] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: You're suggesting that your opinion has more value than another person's. While this can be objectively true, depending on what each opinion provides, this is an impractical position to take as a default and does nothing to improve your own argument. It would be more productive to simply ask for Halete's opinion on the matter or ignore her entirely rather than try to discount her as a person. Aphoxema posts idea. I post my opinion, which, as you said, is objective and most of all, debatable. Halete calls me a neanderthal. Yeah, I see how I'm the bad guy here. Well then, I'll leave you two gals to liking each other's comments. Halete wrote: I love forums. Me too! Isn't that great? I'd like to be able to implement all the stupid ideas people suggest. Then go on TQ and ruin their day with them. Uber tractor beams? Sure, I'll tractor you around with me. Uber bubbles? Sure, I'll bubble you in Jita. Uber punishments for pirates? Sure, I'll make everyone not buy your minerals anymore.
Aphoxema G Teraa Matar White-Lotus 299	Posted - 2012.05.10 17:09:00 - [20] - Quote NiGhTTraX wrote: Aphoxema posts idea. I post my opinion, which, as you said, is objective and most of all, debatable. Halete calls me a neanderthal. Yeah, I see how I'm the bad guy here. Well then, I'll leave you two gals to liking each other's comments. I don't want you to stop arguing with me, just stop being distracted by my cute but silly friend. All modules "miss" like turrets instead of deactivating when out of range. [ http://tinyurl.com/6nrdzon ] Identify "North" [ http://tinyurl.com/7kubllo ]

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