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40% of the mineral market comes from loot

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 16:01:00 - [1] Originally by: Ricdic I had a fairly long winded idea to combat this about 9 months ago here. It was more focused on allowing proper specialization, a miner being the core supplier of minerals, a mission runner being the core supplier of named loot, a producer being the core supplier of T1 products. It also went on a little bit about the ability to customize a producers items. It's nothing like T3 but its still a form of customization that will be able to give some form of individuality to a product. As a mission runner I enjoy the mineral yield from missions however when considering the effect on miner profession (especially as listed here now at a whopping 40%) it really shows how damaging this is. This is really the best solution. Missioning already brings in way too much money. Get rid of dropped T1 loot. Get rid of meta 1-3, they're pointless. Increase the drop rate of meta 4 somewhat to compensate. Get rid of drone drops, and add bounty to drone kills. Mining needs to be more interesting. I'm sure there are a few ways to do this. Someone else probably has some good ideas. With T1 loot no longer being dropped, we will need some way to increase yield from mining, because miners will need to make up for that 40% loss of mineral volume. That could be make mining more fun, or just buff mining roids and lasers. I prefer making it more fun, but that might take too many CCP resources right now. That's about it really. --------------------
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 17:36:00 - [2] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: SencneS Hmm so.... THAT is what happened to Nocxium... The Drone Region started flooding the market :) The problem is Mining vs Loot has a catch 22. You can't change one without it having an adverse effect on the other... If you increase Mining yields that will only serve to flood the market and lower the price of minerals. The mission runners are not going to stop reprocessing the loot, their mineral yield hasn't changed. You've increased the supply which may not be a bad thing but it's not great either. If you decrease the Mission Loot:- 1) You'll hear 10,000 farmers all whinning at the top of their lungs that the quaternary function of mission running is being nerfed. It's not good enough they get, bounty, LP, Salvage, no no they need this crap LOOT as well! 2) You'll be creating a lot more demand, the lack of literally 40%+ of the minerals would skyrocket mineral prices everywhere. Farmers come out of the wood work in hulks to totally suck every mineral out of empire! The only real solution is More roids. Simply ten fold the availability of asteroids.. GIVE people the option to mine, I feel that people are turning to Mission running as a source for Minerals because there are no roids in Highsec. Give everyone a lot more Roids and hold out for 6 months see what happens. I think its two fold. People are turning to loot because not only of the need and ability for it to source the minerals, but also because of the mission runners habit to offload them cheaply without care of the time it takes to get those minerals. I say just do away with the problem all together of mission loot and effectively nerf it's effect on the market, while at the same time boosting mining to ensure it can keep up with the demand. Again, its like you said its going to **** off the farmers. But like I said earlier, there really is no solution that isn't going to upset some area of the game's player base. Get it done with, ripping it off like you do a band aid. Actually I'm not sure you would have to buff mining too much, as if you get rid of dropped loot here's what I think will happen" - Obviously most mission runners will take a hit to income - Mineral prices go up by quite a bit, mids finally are worth mining - Mining is now worth more ISK/hr due to higher prices - More people mine - More mineral supply to take up slack Although even if you do buff yield rates, I don't think miners will really suffer. Sure the price will drop on minerals they mine because supply went up quite a bit, but hey they mitigate that anyway by mining more per hour. A wash.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 17:45:00 - [3] Edited by: nether void on 04/02/2009 17:45:54 Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 04/02/2009 17:43:42 Originally by: nether void Actually I'm not sure you would have to buff mining too much, as if you get rid of dropped loot here's what I think will happen" - Obviously most mission runners will take a hit to income - Mineral prices go up by quite a bit, mids finally are worth mining - Mining is now worth more ISK/hr due to higher prices - More people mine - More mineral supply to take up slack Although even if you do buff yield rates, I don't think miners will really suffer. Sure the price will drop on minerals they mine because supply went up quite a bit, but hey they mitigate that anyway by mining more per hour. A wash. How can more people mine if a majority of the asteroids in high-sec are already mined out a few hours after uptime? Now, it's true most station-less systems have some belts remain and some that are completely untouched. However to solve this problem you do need to increase the availability of Asteroids. Edit:- Corrected error. There are already LOTS of roids to mine in empire. If logistics is a problem, freighter FTW. Also, more people will mine mids instead of just Veld, so that will help some. Also smart miners will mine out missions. Endless supply of rocks. --------------------
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 17:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: nether void There are already LOTS of roids to mine in empire. If logistics is a problem, freighter FTW. Also, more people will mine mids instead of just Veld, so that will help some. Also smart miners will mine out missions. Endless supply of rocks. There are lots of roids to mine, but instead of just adding more. Again, just change the yield amounts and add the ability to logistically compress low end minerals in empire. Not to the same degree as a Rorq obviously, but on some level add to the ability to compress minerals and transport low ends easier. That could be added to the Orca, to some extent. But still, if you have a freighter you can pretty much move a huge stack right? I mean 900 km3 has to count for something.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 18:26:00 - [5] What I mean is will a freighter serve the needs of a mining corp moving their mins to market. I think the logistics around moving mins from high sec to low to produce capitals is intentional. It's supposed to be part of the cost of doing business, the time spent moving minerals. --------------------
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 18:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Clair Bear My first reaction was "Only 40%?" But I guess not everyone loots their L4s. And from my time in 0.0 I know not everyone loots their belt rat kills either. Removing all loot drops from NPC kills is the only way to go. Drones should drop moon minerals, and rats should drop BPCs for their named and faction items. Problem solved. I think this is close to the best approach. Maybe just remove T1 loot from drops and change drone drops to moon mins. In a complicated system, the best way to tweak it is in small doses. Much easier to analyze the effects of your change this way. If the result is still not desired, another small tweak. Changing a lot of variables at once is a recipie for disaster! hehe --------------------
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 21:15:00 - [7] Cut the bounty on NPC rats if missions are too lucrative. --------------------
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 21:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Illioe d) retain the same profit/mission balance Pretty sure we want to lower the profit/mission balance.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 22:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Nadarius Chrome Another significant issue is the overuse of Trit. Trit nearly matches Pye in price now because construction demands it more than it should. The ratios are off. This not only makes Trit more valuable but suppresses the value of other minerals. 60% of Mex comes from loot because mining for mex is impractical and not worthwhile next to mining for trit. That percentage is just showing a symptom of deeper problems, not the cause. Actually this very thing you're talking about is due to reprocessed mission loot. Especially Pyre and Mex issues. Remove T1 loot from missions, and it will reduce the issue drastically. I'm currently sitting on a ton of Pyre and Mex because I never use it all up. I've reprocessed loot for a long while, and while the Trit does get used quickly, so much Pyre and Mex (and Nocx) come from reprocessing mission loot, I've never had to buy any of it. --------------------
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 23:00:00 - [10] Originally by: xxxak Originally by: LaVista Vista As per the CSM minutes I find this worrying. I think this needs to be raised as an issue for in a few months. What do you guys think? How should this be fixed? You. Are. Wrong. People actually LIKE missions. It is somewhat fun and somewhat entertaining. Mining is not. If you force more people to mine, some of them will just quit EVE. BAD. Changing the ISK value of running missions won't make them any more or less fun. They'll still be functionally the same. Nobody is forcing anybody to mine. If you want to make the most ISK/hr, you won't care if that's missioning or mining or whatever. So if you're missioning now because you like it, nerfing it's payout while buffing mining shouldn't bother you in the least.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.04 23:19:00 - [11] I don't know where to put this in the Assembly Hall (no time to search for more than 20 minutes to find a like thread - lol), but man that would be totally awesome if you could somehow link some form of carebear crap to 0.0 sov. It would be awesome to make a better symbiotic relationship there. And I don't mean they have to be in the alliance who holds the space, but even if they just live there and 'affect' sov, that would be even better! Would be nice if 0.0 alliance space was like a mini-empire, full on pvp zone.

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