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T3 ships and losing SP

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Delclara Nancekuke Gallente Frisky Space Vixens	Posted - 2009.02.09 08:49:00 - [1] Heard a nasty rumour that if you lose a T3 ship in combat then a random one of five modules the ship is made of is destroyed and the SP the pilot has that goes with it. If this is true then there will be no incentive to fly one, as I'd personally not like to lose training time I've spent to fly one of these expensive white elephants. Seems Eve is turning into Dungeons and Dragons where the mage class forgets how to cast a spell once its used and has to relearn it every day! Comments and discussions please. Flamers and trolls will be hit by a Horrid Wilting spell (tm)....oh carp I didn't relearn it!
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.09 08:53:00 - [2] And you needed to make a NEW topic for this? Nice comparison though.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.09 08:55:00 - [3] Everyone always expecting something for nothing
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.09 08:59:00 - [4] Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney Saying "this" because I missed it in the real thread.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney What was the problem with a plain, old ISK loss? ISK = time Skills = time So losing a T3 ship would be a timeloss twice over. Add up the timesink in getting the components in the first place and it's triple. It'd take you back in time faster than a deLorean with an overheated flux capacitor.
Qordel Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:07:00 - [7] Perhaps you heard the rumor from the thread of the same topic about two rows down from here on the front page...
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:08:00 - [8] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:08:01 Originally by: Navtiqes Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney What was the problem with a plain, old ISK loss? ISK = time Skills = time So losing a T3 ship would be a timeloss twice over. Add up the timesink in getting the components in the first place and it's triple. It'd take you back in time faster than a deLorean with an overheated flux capacitor. Because EVE is niche, EVE is risk vs reward, ISK loss is no different from normal MMO loss etc etc etc. It's time to put that "EVE is niche" and "risk vs reward" money where peoples mouths are
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:10:00 - [9] Originally by: Navtiqes What was the problem with a plain, old ISK loss? ISK = time Skills = time For some vets the amount of iskies is meaningless and skill time loss will be just as painful for all. Except the vets, that have all relevant skills where they want, and can afford to lose some training time. So nothing really changes, but more people will get a huge addrenaline rush when fighting. It also help to keep the previous tech levels relevant, I guess.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:08:01 Originally by: Navtiqes Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney What was the problem with a plain, old ISK loss? ISK = time Skills = time So losing a T3 ship would be a timeloss twice over. Add up the timesink in getting the components in the first place and it's triple. It'd take you back in time faster than a deLorean with an overheated flux capacitor. Because EVE is niche, EVE is risk vs reward, ISK loss is no different from normal MMO loss etc etc etc. It's time to put that "EVE is niche" and "risk vs reward" money where peoples mouths are seriously. For all the people saying the game is going carebear, well the devs must of been like "carebear are we? oh we'll show you what kind of happy hello kitty world eve is" hahaha skill loss. If you guys keep whining then CCP might put in permi-death while flying a tech 3 ship, then you'll whine for your sp loss back.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:17:00 - [11] Originally by: MotherMoon seriously. For all the people saying the game is going carebear, well the devs must of been like "carebear are we? oh we'll show you what kind of happy hello kitty world eve is" hahaha skill loss. If you guys keep whining then CCP might put in permi-death while flying a tech 3 ship, then you'll whine for your sp loss back. I'd welcome permadeath
L046 Stripey Industrial Beast Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:18:00 - [12] If ccp so badly need the extra 5days of resubs they get everytime a t3 ship pop's the game has issues. why not just charge us the 3 euros or dollars to let us keep the skill L
Karii Ildarian Caldari M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney /agree
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:25:00 - [14] Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/02/2009 09:25:12 Originally by: L046 If ccp so badly need the extra 5days of resubs they get everytime a t3 ship pop's the game has issues. why not just charge us the 3 euros or dollars to let us keep the skill L no, money isn't the point nub. They have PLEX for that and power of two. and how the hell is going to train to 5? If I DID train to 5, everytime I was going to die I would eject. I mean if I even SAW a bubble in 0.0 space, I would eject and take the implant loss. Thankfully no one is that stupid to train those skills to level 5.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:31:00 - [15] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/02/2009 09:25:12 Originally by: L046 If ccp so badly need the extra 5days of resubs they get everytime a t3 ship pop's the game has issues. why not just charge us the 3 euros or dollars to let us keep the skill L no, money isn't the point nub. They have PLEX for that and power of two. and how the hell is going to train to 5? If I DID train to 5, everytime I was going to die I would eject. I mean if I even SAW a bubble in 0.0 space, I would eject and take the implant loss. Thankfully no one is that stupid to train those skills to level 5. What if it gives like a 20% bonus per level? I'd train five days for that. Have they released a detailed list of what kinds of T3 skills are going to be added?
Footfist Headknocker	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:32:00 - [16] Originally by: L046 If ccp so badly need the extra 5days of resubs they get everytime a t3 ship pop's the game has issues. why not just charge us the 3 euros or dollars to let us keep the skill L Guess it's their way of negating the quality of life improvement we were getting with skill queues.
chatgris	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: MotherMoon seriously. For all the people saying the game is going carebear, well the devs must of been like "carebear are we? oh we'll show you what kind of happy hello kitty world eve is" hahaha skill loss. If you guys keep whining then CCP might put in permi-death while flying a tech 3 ship, then you'll whine for your sp loss back. I'd welcome permadeath Yes, this is a duplicate thread, but I'll say it here: Then all the risk vs reward types who say that SP doesn't matter, that all noobs should attack back and pvp from day one can routinely show the rest of us how effective 800K SP really is.
Denaris Aschanna	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:41:00 - [18] Oh for the love of... So here we are again, in a duplicate topic, and people are STILL worrying about something that hasn't even been confirmed by CCP yet! Here's a tip - get the latest copy of EON and read the whole T3 section. Then read it again and pay attention. Now if you've done that, you should have a good idea about what's more likely to happen! Note the phrase about "repackaging ships will make the winsauce leak out" or words to that effect. This implies that the SHIP has it's own set of skillpoints that accumulate as the ship is used. Therefore, if ship go boom, the SHIP loses IT'S skillpoints.. NOT THE PLAYER! Of course I may also be wrong, the point is nobody other than CCP knows what's gonna happen! So why not wait until we all know for sure before whining and berating CCP about 'crap game mechanics'!
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:47:00 - [19] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:08:01 Originally by: Navtiqes Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney What was the problem with a plain, old ISK loss? ISK = time Skills = time So losing a T3 ship would be a timeloss twice over. Add up the timesink in getting the components in the first place and it's triple. It'd take you back in time faster than a deLorean with an overheated flux capacitor. Because EVE is niche, EVE is risk vs reward, ISK loss is no different from normal MMO loss etc etc etc. It's time to put that "EVE is niche" and "risk vs reward" money where peoples mouths are It's not that people don't want risk. Just because EVE is built around Risk vs Reward doesn't mean that ANY risk vs ANY reward is all the same thing. I think the concern is that the risk of SP loss won't justify the rewards of flying a t3 ship. If it doesn't then nobody flies the ships and it's wasted content. I won't make a judgment call until I hear about the complete plans. I have no problem with them offering any amount of optional risk. Hopefully if the risk IS high then the rewards will be too. Your attitude seems to be that anyone that claims they enjoy risk vs reward or uses it for arguments on other subjects shouldn't ever be unhappy with any risk vs reward balance without being hypocritical. Either the risk is too high for the rewards and the content isn't used much or at all. Or the balance is worthwhile in many people's eyes and the content is appreciated by PVPers (PVE possibly too but it seems most of this "argument" is concerning using t3 in PVP). Sounds like the complaints so far are just concerns of people that don't think the balance will be fair. Premature, yes, but has nothing to do with people putting money where their mouth is blah blah. If I'm missing your point please let me know. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:51:00 - [20] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:51:55 Originally by: Gorefacer It's not that people don't want risk. Just because EVE is built around Risk vs Reward doesn't mean that ANY risk vs ANY reward is all the same thing. I think the concern is that the risk of SP loss won't justify the rewards of flying a t3 ship. If it doesn't then nobody flies the ships and it's wasted content. I won't make a judgment call until I hear about the complete plans. I have no problem with them offering any amount of optional risk. Hopefully if the risk IS high then the rewards will be too. Your attitude seems to be that anyone that claims they enjoy risk vs reward or uses it for arguments on other subjects shouldn't ever be unhappy with any risk vs reward balance without being hypocritical. Either the risk is too high for the rewards and the content isn't used much or at all. Or the balance is worthwhile in many people's eyes and the content is appreciated by PVPers (PVE possibly too but it seems most of this "argument" is concerning using t3 in PVP). Sounds like the complaints so far are just concerns of people that don't think the balance will be fair. Premature, yes, but has nothing to do with people putting money where their mouth is blah blah. If I'm missing your point please let me know. The point is, in all simplicity, that this is REAL loss, REAL risk, instead of "lost isk", which, as mentioned by several people, is nothing. Hypocrites are coming out the woodworks the moment they introduce some real loss. Ofcourse it needs to be balanced, but still, people are complaining prematurely and with no point towards balance. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:51:55 Originally by: Gorefacer It's not that people don't want risk. Just because EVE is built around Risk vs Reward doesn't mean that ANY risk vs ANY reward is all the same thing. I think the concern is that the risk of SP loss won't justify the rewards of flying a t3 ship. If it doesn't then nobody flies the ships and it's wasted content. I won't make a judgment call until I hear about the complete plans. I have no problem with them offering any amount of optional risk. Hopefully if the risk IS high then the rewards will be too. Your attitude seems to be that anyone that claims they enjoy risk vs reward or uses it for arguments on other subjects shouldn't ever be unhappy with any risk vs reward balance without being hypocritical. Either the risk is too high for the rewards and the content isn't used much or at all. Or the balance is worthwhile in many people's eyes and the content is appreciated by PVPers (PVE possibly too but it seems most of this "argument" is concerning using t3 in PVP). Sounds like the complaints so far are just concerns of people that don't think the balance will be fair. Premature, yes, but has nothing to do with people putting money where their mouth is blah blah. If I'm missing your point please let me know. The point is, in all simplicity, that this is REAL loss, REAL risk, instead of "lost isk", which, as mentioned by several people, is nothing. Hypocrites are coming out the woodworks the moment they introduce some real loss. Ofcourse it needs to be balanced, but still, people are complaining prematurely and with no point towards balance. I agree people are complaining prematurely. However the complaints are that risk vs reward will be out of whack, not that there will be what you call "real" risk now. The risk won't be much different than lost ISK really. With t3 you will have to spend the time to replace the ISK and spend the time to replace the SP. So it's really just a greater time loss as far as I see it. I still don't see how it has anything to do with hypocrisy. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
L046 Stripey Industrial Beast Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:58:00 - [22] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 09:51:55 Originally by: Gorefacer It's not that people don't want risk. Just because EVE is built around Risk vs Reward doesn't mean that ANY risk vs ANY reward is all the same thing. I think the concern is that the risk of SP loss won't justify the rewards of flying a t3 ship. If it doesn't then nobody flies the ships and it's wasted content. I won't make a judgment call until I hear about the complete plans. I have no problem with them offering any amount of optional risk. Hopefully if the risk IS high then the rewards will be too. Your attitude seems to be that anyone that claims they enjoy risk vs reward or uses it for arguments on other subjects shouldn't ever be unhappy with any risk vs reward balance without being hypocritical. Either the risk is too high for the rewards and the content isn't used much or at all. Or the balance is worthwhile in many people's eyes and the content is appreciated by PVPers (PVE possibly too but it seems most of this "argument" is concerning using t3 in PVP). Sounds like the complaints so far are just concerns of people that don't think the balance will be fair. Premature, yes, but has nothing to do with people putting money where their mouth is blah blah. If I'm missing your point please let me know. The point is, in all simplicity, that this is REAL loss, REAL risk, instead of "lost isk", which, as mentioned by several people, is nothing. Hypocrites are coming out the woodworks the moment they introduce some real loss. Ofcourse it needs to be balanced, but still, people are complaining prematurely and with no point towards balance. just seams to me to be another ccp digging into my wallet exercise tbh rather than a risk reward issue.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Gorefacer I agree people are complaining prematurely. However the complaints are that risk vs reward will be out of whack, not that there will be what you call "real" risk now. The risk won't be much different than lost ISK really. With t3 you will have to spend the time to replace the ISK and spend the time to replace the SP. So it's really just a greater time loss as far as I see it. I still don't see how it has anything to do with hypocrisy. Let's continue this on the other thread, it's hurting my head My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Gorefacer I agree people are complaining prematurely. However the complaints are that risk vs reward will be out of whack, not that there will be what you call "real" risk now. The risk won't be much different than lost ISK really. With t3 you will have to spend the time to replace the ISK and spend the time to replace the SP. So it's really just a greater time loss as far as I see it. I still don't see how it has anything to do with hypocrisy. Let's continue this on the other thread, it's hurting my head Haha OK. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
bff Jill	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Well, even if this is a duplicate topic, i'll say it again; You can toot around screaming "EVE is differentz" and "Risk vs reward!!" all you want, but the moment some REAL loss comes into play and people start to cry about it, like a 5 year old kid who got denied his fudcicle, you can all just shut the hell up and take it up the hiney Using skillpoints to fly t3 ships, which are designed to be about comparable but 'different' than t2 ships, is risking more for no additional gain. And if there was additional gain it would screw up the entire balance of the game. So effectively there is no reason to fly a t3 ship because you gain nothing from flying a t3 ship over a ship that is not a t3 ship, other than 'hay im flying a t3 ship! lol'. You are effectively throwing away something for no real reason. So send me your isk.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Destructive Influence KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.09 10:59:00 - [26] ya, I am afraid of the balance - and I fear its all gonna go out the window. . . -----------
L046 Stripey Industrial Beast Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:06:00 - [27] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/02/2009 09:25:12 Originally by: L046 If ccp so badly need the extra 5days of resubs they get everytime a t3 ship pop's the game has issues. why not just charge us the 3 euros or dollars to let us keep the skill L no, money isn't the point nub. They have PLEX for that and power of two. and how the hell is going to train to 5? If I DID train to 5, everytime I was going to die I would eject. I mean if I even SAW a bubble in 0.0 space, I would eject and take the implant loss. Thankfully no one is that stupid to train those skills to level 5. Its all about teh money for ccp, they have shown us this many times over the last year. im sure waiting for teh option on the web page to buy t3 skills back and insure the skills in the future for a fee.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:12:00 - [28] Originally by: L046 Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 09/02/2009 09:25:12 Originally by: L046 If ccp so badly need the extra 5days of resubs they get everytime a t3 ship pop's the game has issues. why not just charge us the 3 euros or dollars to let us keep the skill L no, money isn't the point nub. They have PLEX for that and power of two. and how the hell is going to train to 5? If I DID train to 5, everytime I was going to die I would eject. I mean if I even SAW a bubble in 0.0 space, I would eject and take the implant loss. Thankfully no one is that stupid to train those skills to level 5. Its all about teh money for ccp, they have shown us this many times over the last year. im sure waiting for teh option on the web page to buy t3 skills back and insure the skills in the future for a fee. lol they have never done anything of the sort. and yes you can keep your tin foil hat.
L046 Stripey Industrial Beast Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.09 11:14:00 - [29] Originally by: MotherMoon lol they have never done anything of the sort. and yes you can keep your tin foil hat. [/quote so they havnt tried over the last year to maximise the amount of cold hard cash they get out of each player??? so the 90day GTC's and the offline training issue were not about that then, must be cos they love us players so then
Tink3r Tr0n	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:02:00 - [30] I like the Idea, Lets say T3 ships were crazy expensive like billions to replace if blown up. a normal person would have to farm isk for a couple days to make that isk back. Instead of farming that 2-3 days for isk we get to click a skill for 3 days and then jump back into the T3 ship. They refer to the skills needed for t3 ships as sub skills so im sure its just those skills that we lose.

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