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Raven after the proposed missile nerf

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Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.08.05 04:50:00 - [1] Right, I've been a crow pilot for the last couple months and I've been quite succesful with one (yes, I've also lost like 5 of 'em). I have now reached a point where I can't really make my crow 'that' much better skillwise and I don't really fancy training for other ceptors either. I have always been telling my mates that I don't really fancy battleship warfare but after my last crow got eaten by drones -again- (damn u eddie, it was the lag, honest.. ;)) I thought that maybe I should train for a BS eventhough I think that I can't handle the slow motion of one. The point of this thread is that I can't really make up my mind on which BS I should aim at. I am really at a point where I could choose whichever I want since I havent even trained cruiser skills up. So, I am caldari and I've got some missile skills, the obvious goal would be a raven. However, is a raven going to be as good after the missiles get their "nerf"? Now, I am not asking whether I should or should not train caldari BS - I will make my own decisions. Not many knows how the missile boats will fare after the nerf (the proposed one). What I want from you is some educated guessing on "how do YOU think the missile nerf is going to affect the power of a raven compared to other battleships"?
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.08.05 04:50:00 - [2] Right, I've been a crow pilot for the last couple months and I've been quite succesful with one (yes, I've also lost like 5 of 'em). I have now reached a point where I can't really make my crow 'that' much better skillwise and I don't really fancy training for other ceptors either. I have always been telling my mates that I don't really fancy battleship warfare but after my last crow got eaten by drones -again- (damn u eddie, it was the lag, honest.. ;)) I thought that maybe I should train for a BS eventhough I think that I can't handle the slow motion of one. The point of this thread is that I can't really make up my mind on which BS I should aim at. I am really at a point where I could choose whichever I want since I havent even trained cruiser skills up. So, I am caldari and I've got some missile skills, the obvious goal would be a raven. However, is a raven going to be as good after the missiles get their "nerf"? Now, I am not asking whether I should or should not train caldari BS - I will make my own decisions. Not many knows how the missile boats will fare after the nerf (the proposed one). What I want from you is some educated guessing on "how do YOU think the missile nerf is going to affect the power of a raven compared to other battleships"?
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.08.05 04:53:00 - [3] Following the law of nerfs, it'll be rendered thoroughly useless to make room for the next flavor of the month. Look to railguns for examples - once they rocked, now they are horrible.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2004.08.05 04:53:00 - [4] Following the law of nerfs, it'll be rendered thoroughly useless to make room for the next flavor of the month. Look to railguns for examples - once they rocked, now they are horrible.
Abbadonuk	Posted - 2004.08.05 04:58:00 - [5] Go for an Apoc, "Balance" means Amarr BS will rule the skys. Member of Lunar Dawn
Abbadonuk	Posted - 2004.08.05 04:58:00 - [6] Go for an Apoc, "Balance" means Amarr BS will rule the skys. Member of Lunar Dawn
Roxy	Posted - 2004.08.05 08:58:00 - [7] get an armageddon. cheap, kicks ass if fitted right, and it wont be nerfed for another couple of months at least.
Roxy	Posted - 2004.08.05 08:58:00 - [8] get an armageddon. cheap, kicks ass if fitted right, and it wont be nerfed for another couple of months at least.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.08.05 09:47:00 - [9] i still think a raven will be awesome just wont be able to do the same kind of damages against small frigates (not using mwd) i guess when the missile skills come out (faster speed) they will find a use again. I think you could easily fit some 2 blasters on one and still handle frigates and i cant excpect that the damage will go down against battleships just frigates and cruisers. Hopefully thell do something about those drones tho, i love flying a crow its such a rush. Death to the Galante
Jim Steele	Posted - 2004.08.05 09:47:00 - [10] i still think a raven will be awesome just wont be able to do the same kind of damages against small frigates (not using mwd) i guess when the missile skills come out (faster speed) they will find a use again. I think you could easily fit some 2 blasters on one and still handle frigates and i cant excpect that the damage will go down against battleships just frigates and cruisers. Hopefully thell do something about those drones tho, i love flying a crow its such a rush. Death to the Galante
Shamberg	Posted - 2004.08.05 09:50:00 - [11] Personally i don't think it makes much difference which bs you go for, they will all have there nerf times and good times. I have been a Ravan pilot for ages now, i have had to adapt to lots of changes. I think the Ravan atm rocks, but then i have not heard of what and when these missile nerf will be? In the end, get what you want, you will always find good and bad points about every bs out there. Ravan is PvP, Apoc is good all rounder etc. Its up to you mate.
Shamberg	Posted - 2004.08.05 09:50:00 - [12] Personally i don't think it makes much difference which bs you go for, they will all have there nerf times and good times. I have been a Ravan pilot for ages now, i have had to adapt to lots of changes. I think the Ravan atm rocks, but then i have not heard of what and when these missile nerf will be? In the end, get what you want, you will always find good and bad points about every bs out there. Ravan is PvP, Apoc is good all rounder etc. Its up to you mate.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.05 11:31:00 - [13] large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... BS vs BS fights wont really change except the following: Sig radius will get used in the missiles dmg formula which means that a torp (dmg cloud of 400m¦) would do e.g. 20 % less dmg vs a typhoon which has only a sig radius of 320 ... The dmg is capped so the torp dmg wont exceed its maximum dmg vs e.g. a raven which has a sig radius of 460. (So all blasterthron pilots dont fear if you use a mwd even more ... all missiles will get some sort of "impact dmg" which will always be kintec for each missile! The impact dmg will vary in terms of how fast the missile and where the missile will hit its target. e.g. If a ship approaches you and the missile hits the ship head on you will do more kinetic dmg as if the missile chases the target and hits it from behind... on chaos you were able to see the stats of the cruise missile for a short time: standard speed: 3.000 m/s dmg cloud: 400m¦ dmg cloud velocity: 150 m/s main dmg: e.g. 300 thermal dmg impact dmg: 200 kinetic dmg Note: impact dmg will be way less from a torp since its way slower as well ... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.08.05 11:31:00 - [14] large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... BS vs BS fights wont really change except the following: Sig radius will get used in the missiles dmg formula which means that a torp (dmg cloud of 400m¦) would do e.g. 20 % less dmg vs a typhoon which has only a sig radius of 320 ... The dmg is capped so the torp dmg wont exceed its maximum dmg vs e.g. a raven which has a sig radius of 460. (So all blasterthron pilots dont fear if you use a mwd even more ... all missiles will get some sort of "impact dmg" which will always be kintec for each missile! The impact dmg will vary in terms of how fast the missile and where the missile will hit its target. e.g. If a ship approaches you and the missile hits the ship head on you will do more kinetic dmg as if the missile chases the target and hits it from behind... on chaos you were able to see the stats of the cruise missile for a short time: standard speed: 3.000 m/s dmg cloud: 400m¦ dmg cloud velocity: 150 m/s main dmg: e.g. 300 thermal dmg impact dmg: 200 kinetic dmg Note: impact dmg will be way less from a torp since its way slower as well ... Greetings Grim
Slippyr4	Posted - 2004.08.05 11:48:00 - [15] Quote: large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant>
Slippyr4	Posted - 2004.08.05 11:48:00 - [16] Quote: large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant>
k4rl	Posted - 2004.08.05 12:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Slippyr4 Quote: large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. thing with that is it would make frigates and cruisers 100% useless ships as everyone and their dog has a battle ship these days -------- Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage. (:D)
k4rl	Posted - 2004.08.05 12:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Slippyr4 Quote: large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. thing with that is it would make frigates and cruisers 100% useless ships as everyone and their dog has a battle ship these days -------- Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage. (:D)
Shamberg	Posted - 2004.08.05 12:07:00 - [19] yeah, but why not just take down the aglility of the missiles. Then it would just be hard to hit a frig, cruise etc.....but if you did then it would get messy !
Shamberg	Posted - 2004.08.05 12:07:00 - [20] yeah, but why not just take down the aglility of the missiles. Then it would just be hard to hit a frig, cruise etc.....but if you did then it would get messy !
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.08.05 13:20:00 - [21] As the man above says, I would be all for the agility changes. Play with the missiles in a frig but prepare to blow up if you get webbed.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2004.08.05 13:20:00 - [22] As the man above says, I would be all for the agility changes. Play with the missiles in a frig but prepare to blow up if you get webbed.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.08.05 13:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Slippyr4 <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant> Your Tomahawk missile is designed to destroy ground targets. It wouldn't help you against aircrafts. You want to wreak havoc on frigates? Fine, then put 6 named assault launchers on your raven. And stop hiding behind an alt
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.08.05 13:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Slippyr4 <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant> Your Tomahawk missile is designed to destroy ground targets. It wouldn't help you against aircrafts. You want to wreak havoc on frigates? Fine, then put 6 named assault launchers on your raven. And stop hiding behind an alt
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2004.08.05 14:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Slippyr4 Quote: large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant> From a physics point of view, your are very correct. A target only dictates the max amount of damage, not a percentage of damage. A shotgun blast against a 50 gallon drum hits with the same force as a shotgun blast to a soda can. Just that the 50 gallon drum can take more damage, while a soda can is shredded. Same about of force is applied PDQ. But missiles should not hit 100% of the time. And Frigate pilots [I do think frigates are great fun, I love to zoom around, testing myself againts nasty npc's] need to understand that it take a big pair of balls to take on any Battleship. And expect to lose. BUT, "big risk, BIG PAYOFF" Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2004.08.05 14:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Slippyr4 Quote: large missiles will do less dmg vs small targets ... like turrets ... <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant> From a physics point of view, your are very correct. A target only dictates the max amount of damage, not a percentage of damage. A shotgun blast against a 50 gallon drum hits with the same force as a shotgun blast to a soda can. Just that the 50 gallon drum can take more damage, while a soda can is shredded. Same about of force is applied PDQ. But missiles should not hit 100% of the time. And Frigate pilots [I do think frigates are great fun, I love to zoom around, testing myself againts nasty npc's] need to understand that it take a big pair of balls to take on any Battleship. And expect to lose. BUT, "big risk, BIG PAYOFF" Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2004.08.05 14:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Slippyr4 <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant> Your Tomahawk missile is designed to destroy ground targets. It wouldn't help you against aircrafts. You want to wreak havoc on frigates? Fine, then put 6 named assault launchers on your raven. And stop hiding behind an alt Tomahawk has an anti-ship mode too.... Makes big holes in the water... Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
BIRDofPREY	Posted - 2004.08.05 14:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Slippyr4 <rant> Personally, I think that is stupid, and it annoys me. Let's look at the real life navy equivalents here: an aircraft carrier vs. a rowing boat. The aircraft carrier would completely 0wn the rowing boat. A tomahawk cruise missile would completely destroy it. I think battleships should be able to wreak havoc on frigates, and to a lesser extent cruisers too. </rant> Your Tomahawk missile is designed to destroy ground targets. It wouldn't help you against aircrafts. You want to wreak havoc on frigates? Fine, then put 6 named assault launchers on your raven. And stop hiding behind an alt Tomahawk has an anti-ship mode too.... Makes big holes in the water... Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.08.05 14:53:00 - [29] The missiles should have been changed at the same time as turrets...but then so should have drones. I'm not sure still why CCP *balanced" turrets whilst leaving missiles and drones alone with old behaviour. The idea of all the changes is to make sure that a) nothing is capable of fitting/using both max offense AND max defense simultaneously and b) different ship classes stick to fighting ships of the same class. Any changes to missiles and drones will simply be to bring them into line, in keeping with b) above. The Raven will still be a devastating, long-range missile boat vs battleships, but battleship sized missiles will be ineffective vs smaller ships. The same will, or at least should be true against turrets and drones as well. If you have the missile skills already, the Raven is not too difficult a ship to fight well with, though it is an expensive one ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals
KingsGambit	Posted - 2004.08.05 14:53:00 - [30] The missiles should have been changed at the same time as turrets...but then so should have drones. I'm not sure still why CCP *balanced" turrets whilst leaving missiles and drones alone with old behaviour. The idea of all the changes is to make sure that a) nothing is capable of fitting/using both max offense AND max defense simultaneously and b) different ship classes stick to fighting ships of the same class. Any changes to missiles and drones will simply be to bring them into line, in keeping with b) above. The Raven will still be a devastating, long-range missile boat vs battleships, but battleship sized missiles will be ineffective vs smaller ships. The same will, or at least should be true against turrets and drones as well. If you have the missile skills already, the Raven is not too difficult a ship to fight well with, though it is an expensive one ------------- BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals

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