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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:20:00 -
[1]
So, if I have 3 charisma, I can't respec without adding more charisma? After playing with it on the test server, it seems 5 is the minimum base. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:01:00 -
[2]
That's basically correct. |
Maren Maen
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:34:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Kahega Amielden
That's basically correct.
Actually, it's entirely, completely, thoroughly correct.
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Diegate
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:53:00 -
[4]
The big question is why?
For people who already have a low base attribute it shouldnt be necessary to add points into that attribute. For people who dont have low base attribute they can add a "5 base limit" and that way avoid people who would want to exploit this.
But CCPs goal seem to be "give everyone 5 as base to all attributes, and let people max out percp/wp int/mem twice per year.
Hurray!
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Ecky X
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:55:00 -
[5]
I wanted 30 percep and willpower for the next 6 months, but having to give up my base3 charisma doesn't seem worth it. 
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Somal Thunder
Intergalactic Peace Organization
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:10:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Somal Thunder on 11/02/2009 02:10:32
Base 3 charisma is for cigarette butts. Having 5 minimum is such a good idea (to prevent people from only having charisma when they train command ships and leadership). |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:24:00 -
[7]
the more you'll be able to chop off at the bottom, the more will be slapped to the desired atrtibs. going down another 2 points leads to 3 more with the "effective" ones. it's got to stop somewhere. sry if a few rare cases have to make tough decisions/calculations -.- |
Foulque
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Posted - 2009.02.11 03:18:00 -
[8]
I understand placing a limit on how low you can set specific attributes. The problem arises with characters that naturally have an attribute below that limit are forced to add to it to be able to use the new feature.
Either..
Reduce minimums to be inline with natural attribute combinations.
or...
Allow sub 5 specs when they are already present.
Forcing people to add to Charisma is just , it's not our fault CCP made Charisma so useless. |
Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 03:42:00 -
[9]
But it is their fault that they hopped on the achura bandwagon.
Tough noogies. I think the minimum charisma for a respec should be 8. Maybe 14.
You really think you should be able to benefit from achura god status for all this time, and also respec freely to pad out your stats even further? There's no limit to the greed of some people.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.11 03:43:00 -
[10]
well, it sneaked into quite a few skillgroups and it's far from useless. i just don't see why there has to be an exception for a handful of people.
any bending will give them a boost anyways: the 2 points saved down there will be two more in your secondary attribute then 'cause the primary is 'sploding already. two points more than anyone else can reach.
you've profited from those asymetric attributes for years now - probably even been boasting about it.
that's achura, right? that was... one week less learning skills?
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putting the gist back into logistics |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.11 05:37:00 -
[11]
I have a question also.
I have heard that a new character created can respec twice immediately, once to get out of 8/8/8/8/7, and a second time (with out waiting 6 month) as the first 'real respec'. is this true? |
EvilD's EvilTwin
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Posted - 2009.02.11 05:58:00 -
[12]
Edited by: EvilD''s EvilTwin on 11/02/2009 05:58:49
can i get some clarification on this real quick....
does it depend on what your attributes originally were..before training and implants? or just what they are prior to attempting to re-distribute.
as in my character now has lowest attribute of 13 or so in charisma...but when i started with nothing it was at 3...so can i re-distribute?
Edit:
lol....i should rename this guy Ecky X's evil twin.... |
Kilashandra
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:55:00 -
[13]
My char is Amarr/Amarr, she has 3 base charisma.
In the future I may increase her charisma to train leadership skills.
Now why shouldn't I be able to reset her back to her original state after that? Just feels like CCP is trying to force my hand with this rule of theirs.
Allow me to reset my char further down the road or don't put this feature in.
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
the more you'll be able to chop off at the bottom, the more will be slapped to the desired atrtibs. going down another 2 points leads to 3 more with the "effective" ones. it's got to stop somewhere. sry if a few rare cases have to make tough decisions/calculations -.-
this makes bloodline decission pointless, why not completely remove attributes then and give everyone same learning speed.
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RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:36:00 -
[15]
Originally by: bff Jill
I have a question also.
I have heard that a new character created can respec twice immediately, once to get out of 8/8/8/8/7, and a second time (with out waiting 6 month) as the first 'real respec'. is this true?
not as it is currently
you can re-spec but then you have to wait 6 months
but then again this is sisi and it also costs you 5 mil
--
BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 12/02/2009 14:39:39
Originally by: Kilashandra
My char is Amarr/Amarr, she has 3 base charisma.
In the future I may increase her charisma to train leadership skills.
Now why shouldn't I be able to reset her back to her original state after that? Just feels like CCP is trying to force my hand with this rule of theirs.
Allow me to reset my char further down the road or don't put this feature in.
Keyword "may"
Nobody is forcing you to respec to higher charisma for leadership skills, if you want the benefit (increasing your charisma as it suits you) you also have to suffer the drawback (not getting it down under 5 afterwards) - or you dont, your choice.
Why should characters with low charisma which arguably have been at an advantage since ages already continue to have this advantage without any drawback at all?
Sure they could make the limit for attributes 3 instead of 5 for all but that would just lead to even more extreme min-maxing, it is already silly enough as it is imho.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.02.12 14:43:00 -
[17]
the attribute respec is a bad idea alltogether ... does not matter what implementation ...
--- SIG ---
CSM: your support is needed ! |
Kilashandra
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Posted - 2009.02.12 15:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amy Wang
Edited by: Amy Wang on 12/02/2009 14:39:39
Originally by: Kilashandra
My char is Amarr/Amarr, she has 3 base charisma.
In the future I may increase her charisma to train leadership skills.
Now why shouldn't I be able to reset her back to her original state after that? Just feels like CCP is trying to force my hand with this rule of theirs.
Allow me to reset my char further down the road or don't put this feature in.
Keyword "may"
Nobody is forcing you to respec to higher charisma for leadership skills, if you want the benefit (increasing your charisma as it suits you) you also have to suffer the drawback (not getting it down under 5 afterwards) - or you dont, your choice.
Why should characters with low charisma which arguably have been at an advantage since ages already continue to have this advantage without any drawback at all?
Sure they could make the limit for attributes 3 instead of 5 for all but that would just lead to even more extreme min-maxing, it is already silly enough as it is imho.
My point would be that CCP is forcing me to respec to higher charisma if I want to use this feature at all and that there should be an option for reset to original attributes, not increasing say int/mem and decreasing per/will and keeping charisma at 3 at the same time.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 15:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Diegate
The big question is why?
For people who already have a low base attribute it shouldnt be necessary to add points into that attribute. For people who dont have low base attribute they can add a "5 base limit" and that way avoid people who would want to exploit this.
But CCPs goal seem to be "give everyone 5 as base to all attributes, and let people max out percp/wp int/mem twice per year.
Hurray!
Gotta punish the min/maxers somewhere down the line.
14 base char out.
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Leiara Knight
Gallente
The Oblivion Guard
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Posted - 2009.02.12 15:26:00 -
[20]
Consider that by being more charismatic, you'll be able to whinge about optional features in a more pleasant fashion.
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Sophia Truthspeaker
THE INTERNET.
Goodfellas.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 15:37:00 -
[21]
I have posted it in general discussion, because pretty much the same discussion came along (Linky)
Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker
So on the one side we got those who want to respec, because some attribute is very low and hinders skill progress. Next we got those who don't want any respec, for various reasons. And lastly we got those who want to respec to maximize their sp/hour rate.
Perhaps a compromise? How about being able to respec once at the end of the first month for free. And then once every year for some horrendous costs. Perhaps half a billion, and a few days recovering time, during which the char can't be played.
Ancestry would also limit the way points are being picked.
That way new player have a chance to know the game, before deciding how their attributes are distributed. Vets who are hindered because of a mistake during character creation would have the chance to redo it at a hefty price. Players who want to minmax can do so, but they'd pay even more. And the others, who don't want attribute respeccing at all (that is me, btw...) have the knowledge, it is not an on the fly respeccing, but a serious medical process, which takes time and enormous resources, so that only the pod pilots can sometimes afford it.
Somehow making the process take some time during which the char can't be played (because he is still in a hospital recovering) makes the respeccing sound a bit more like part of the eve universe than sitting in you pod and undergoing a dna mutation treatment that finishes as soon as begun.
Oh and the point the op in general discussion made was, that if you can respec every 6 month, and a veteran player can easily fill these 6 month with skills with per/wil as attributes, where is the difference to simply setting all the attributes to max for all players?
Except of course, new player won't be able to fill 6 month with same attribute of skills, so older player charge on ahead.
_________
Proposed Mining and Attribute Changes
The truth is out there |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.02.12 18:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
this makes bloodline decission pointless
I believe that may be the point. Since MMOs naturally have their share of min-maxers, I would not be surprised if CCP looks on the proliferation of Achura everywhere as a failure on their part to produce balance. As you can tell by the tone of some of the responses in this thread, to pick anything but Achura is punishing yourself (slightly) from an efficiency perspective, in the name of aesthetics, or roleplaying reasons, or something else altogether.
By separating attributes from the racial bloodlines it frees up the player to choose which bloodline they want to be based on their affinity to the story and physiognomy, rather than feeling they have to pick the "best" one.
You could also say that the face generation step (or to be really extreme, choosing a name) is "pointless" since it doesn't make any difference to your skills or training times, but it's still in there as a source of personalisation. Bloodline selection now falls into the same situation.
For my part, I think this move is a good thing. Let the new players pick what race they like best, let them get training with decent all-round stats, and let them distribute their attributes fully once they know more about the game.
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