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Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.06.20 16:43:00 -
[31]
I do believe removing M0o with a few corps getting together is no longer a realistic option. They have 1, or maybe even 2 Dominix battleships. The only way to deal with 2 battleships and a small fleet of cruisers would be to bring in 20+ cruisers to fight them, but unfortunately that would quickly turn into a lag fest, with people being stuck for 1 minute to load the gate area, and actions being delayed by god knows how much, if anyone can even keep track of what's going on between 100 containers, 2 battleships and 25 cruisers with all the lag.
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You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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Davius Kell
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Posted - 2003.06.20 17:01:00 -
[32]
You think small corps cant earn enough to build a massive fleet of cruisers and battleships?
^^
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Deputy CEO Cutting Edge Inc
Loan providers and nasty men with big pointy stick's |
Zaal
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Posted - 2003.06.20 17:05:00 -
[33]
Everyone should just give up and say the pirate corps won.
OK so what game should we play next?
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Vrischika
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Posted - 2003.06.20 17:42:00 -
[34]
Who said anything about giving up? Passarri is one starsystem in about 5000. Go around, move HQ, set up some place else.
Aside from the odd Newbie-Butcher here and there, practically every career Pirate of note now lives in one, well-publicised star-system...I'm sure there is enough Not-Passarri to go around for everyone else...
Just because I don't see PvP as worthwhile or fun, doesn't necessarily mean that EVE has nothing for me anymore.
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.06.20 17:44:00 -
[35]
"I expect I'll be in Frigates for the foreseeable future, because, although I can afford *a* cruiser, I cannot afford *many* cruisers."
Can you drive a MoA cruiser?
Okay here is a deal - maybe some other corps will release from their greed for about a week and participate in this with other classes of cruisers:
Bring Cyberdyne Systems the base mineral requirement for building a moa and we will trade you a MoA for the mineral and only 500K in isk for a manufacturing fee.
So, now we can get everyone in cheap costing efficitive ship platforms for some good wholesome pvp action.
If your a freelance, good moral corporation, or a pirate/griefer corp you may have this deal.
Now the lame excuses on how expensive pvp is no more. So I encourage other corporations to follow suite and get greater pvp competition fueled.
There is a rumor going around that Cyberdyne Systems is a pirate corporation. This is simply not true. We kill people on sight in 0.0 systems for sport and fun - maybe that makes us worse - don't really care since it is fun for us. But we do not pod and keep our homocide activities restricted to 0.0 space where one can say you should expect this stuff. We are a friendly as can be in areas outside of 0.0 systems.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Promoters of Affordable PvP
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Koinski
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Posted - 2003.06.20 17:49:00 -
[36]
For us Industrially impaired can you tell what are the mineral needs of a Moa Builder?
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.06.20 17:55:00 -
[37]
http://www.crimsonautograph.com/eve/blueprints/browse_blueprints?bp_id=1190
There are the requirement and a useful web page also.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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vf142rex
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Posted - 2003.06.20 18:37:00 -
[38]
Players with extremely high security ratings should be able to become an employee of the empire,,,aka, he becomes a navy pilot and is given navy ships. If he loses a ship, he can get a new one at the expense of the empire. There should be plusses and minuses to this.
CCP has to allow the whole empire thing to come into play if they expect players to deal with pirate issues like this. I think allowing players to join the navy (very selectively) would be good. Then, blockades like this in empire space could be handled. |
Price Checker
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Posted - 2003.06.20 19:13:00 -
[39]
LOL The Wretched, nice sales pitch. Yeah, sure, your fee is $500,000, but what about the 3.5 mil in minerals they have to bring?
Minerals don't mine/haul themselves. Not all of us have that kind of money to throw away at a whim.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.20 19:18:00 -
[40]
I don't know where to start. I've deleted and rewritten this post 4 times already.
If people will not stand up to the pirates, knowing full well they are going to take losses, then the option that remains is to move. Leave the region and go where Mara does not turn up in your destination route.
I can hear the arguements now... "Mara is in empire space and the empire has a duty to protect us". Wrong. You have a duty to yourself to protect yourself first. And whether that means picking up a gun and doing the fighting yourself or picking up shop and moving elsewhere, choosing to wait for someone else to do the work for you means you fail in your obligation to protect yourself from losses.
Honestly, I find the "Empire" arguement flawed on many levels. From an "Empire" standpoint, what happens in Mara isn't worth more than token "Empire Attention". Mara is 1 system out of how many in Empire space? How many people get intercepted there versus how many people conducting business safely in the Empire total? How big is MOo and the others? Mara isn't even a blip on the radar.
So ends the in-character arguement. Now for the out of character one. Eve is about making isk, nothing more and nothing less. How you make that isk is up to you, the player, to decide. There are obstacles in making isk in all areas of the gameplay. Player pirates are one of those obstacles. What kind of game would it be if the entire point was to move cargo A to destination B with no obstacles? Primarily an AFK one, where all you did was set your autopilot and go play a real game.
Does it hurt to lose everything on a gamble? Yes, I've done it and it sucks. But that doesn't change the fact that without obstacles in my path the game would be nothing more than "Who has the most people to help them make isk?". I think people are more upset at the fact that they are 'losing' to another real, breathing player than to some easily outwitted NPC pirate with the IQ of an amoeba. They are more upset at being unable to force their way past an obstacle because it has a real, working brain. Unlike the NPC pirates, who can be beaten by the dumbest of tactics.
Some of the people I see posting on these topics are the same ones arguing in Eve's defense that the game is more than mindlessly killing the same rat over and over again. That you have to use your brains to succeed at Eve. Then why is it when faced with a challenge that requires brains (and not a whole lot of them IMO), the first thing people want to do is have it nerfed so they don't have to use their brains at all?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Aerick Dawn
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Posted - 2003.06.20 19:26:00 -
[41]
what is all this talk about bringing cruisers to a fight?
Jeeez...bring a frigate, not bad firepower, not bad loss if it gets hosed. A tristan is one refine of low grade ore in my indy fer crissakes.
Stand up ya whiners, and do some pirate killing.
______________________
What Aerick has been up to lately.. |
Gaius Varro
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Posted - 2003.06.20 20:09:00 -
[42]
The simple fact, ignored here by EVERYONE, is that CCP has made absolutely sure that NO corporation that has any possiblity of even denting the Passari/Mara problem has ANY interest in doing so.
Where is the problem? Empire space.
Where are the big corps? In non-empire space. Where the good ores and the good loot drops are at.
If you are not VERY well equipped, you have no real hope in Lonetrek. And if you ARE that well equipped, then what are you screwing around in empire space for?
The simple fact is, there is absolutely NO reason for a major corp to ever spend one isk keeping pirates or anyone else out of empire space. And since we mosly agree that they are the only ones to be able to do so, NO ONE is going to do so. So my advice to anyone in Caldari space is: Leave.
Simple as that. It is obvious that CCP wants us to do the dirty work, and not the empire NPCs. But they miscalculate the risk/benefit. LOTS of risk. NO benefit. So I'm leaving (Lonetrek - not the game). I wanted to be a good Caldari citizen. I waited over 3 weeks for this situation to turn around so I could contribute to the Caldari economy. I wanted to get some good agents so I could interact with the Caldari NPC and Empire corps. But I have been stupid thinking that empires actually mean something.
If you are listening CCP, just hear this part. When you make an event - "Save the Caldari Empire from the (put your own evil threat here)" - I'm going to think of the 50-75 jumps I'll have to make from where I am. Then I'm going to remeber just how much my well being meant to the Caldari Empire.
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Gauss
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Posted - 2003.06.20 20:17:00 -
[43]
Ok fellas..
First of all, I'm pretty sure it's not in the 'interest' of the empires to have the gigantic deflation. Way too much supply of everything. Prices keep dropping. And why? because it's way to easy to get materials and trade. Should an indy really ever be flying around alone? I think not.
I wouldn't be surprised if the caldaris were secretly supporting the blockade in an effort to drive prices up. (supply decreases, demand increases, etc etc)
In my opinion, there currently aren't nearly enough pirates. There oughta be pirates attempting to blockade every passage to the valuable orefields outside empire space. What do corps do now? Mine and buy their members cruisers.. and what do the cruisers do? As near as I can tell, nothing. They should be escorting convoys. That's how real corporations work. Every dime spent is expected to yield two dimes of profit. You don't buy a cruiser for a lazy coward.
That's what CCP wants, and I don't know why you people that want the empires to intervene don't see it. There's so much potential here for fun, and it's all in the mechanics that CCP has given us for player interaction. Form corporate alliances to keep valuable trade routes clear. If pirating is enough of a problem that it starts to decrease supply, then demand will increase and it will suddenly be economically feasible to hire escorts and pay people to keep regions safe. And wouldn't that be a blast? To escort a convoy? To police a region? Honestly people. Mining is not the point of this game.
And as for large corps having no interest in keeping mara clear, that's completely fallacious. The large corps have to bring their goods to market to make a profit. The market is in empire space. Whether that's by people coming out to them to buy their goods, or them bringing their goods in, its the same thing.
If enough blockades start popping up, the game will get really fun, really fast.
Gauss
moo
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Zuul
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Posted - 2003.06.20 20:42:00 -
[44]
especially when people start leaving the game altogether because they can't go anywhere.
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Gauss
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Posted - 2003.06.20 20:47:00 -
[45]
Are you just deliberately missing the point of my post? Or was it too complicated?
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Aerick Dawn
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Posted - 2003.06.20 21:00:00 -
[46]
know your enemy...
______________________
What Aerick has been up to lately.. |
The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.06.20 21:24:00 -
[47]
^^LOL^^
Gauss -
Nice post, but most of these ppl will never get it and want to have it easy in a mmporg designed to be a tough and rewarding pvp challenge.
I noticed that those doing well - both pirate, griefer, and "moral" legit corps, are not complaining. So why are they all doing so well if the game is soooo broken?
You want to end the mara problem you have to have more drive and determination then those holding it. So far NO one has or the occupiers would of been long dispatched.
Unless CCP makes a sorry intervention, I don't see mara ever being a free pass seeing those whining on this board.
So complainers can just take that looong route around mara and continue complaining. Personally the corp and I would appreciate a little more company along that route of 0.0 systems around mara ;) . It is a wonderfull pvp playground.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Edited by: The Wretch on 20/06/2003 21:29:37
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Calladen Nimitz
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Posted - 2003.06.20 23:36:00 -
[48]
"In my opinion, there currently aren't nearly enough pirates. There oughta be pirates attempting to blockade every passage to the valuable orefields outside empire space. What do corps do now? Mine and buy their members cruisers.. and what do the cruisers do? As near as I can tell, nothing. They should be escorting convoys. That's how real corporations work. Every dime spent is expected to yield two dimes of profit. You don't buy a cruiser for a lazy coward."
Gauss your post was right on the money. Part of a growing economy is the ability to FIND work for everyone. An excellent post with a good understanding of what needs to be done to ensure economic survivial.
Calladen Nimitz
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Gustavef
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Posted - 2003.06.20 23:56:00 -
[49]
I kind of like the pirates there. I know where they are :)
I just think that CONCORD should swoop in once a week or so on a random raid just to scatter the pirates. Maybe hold the gate for a few hours then leave.
Keep the Prirates on their toes. It is 0.4 sec system, so it should not be regular or too often.
-gustavef
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The Reverend
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Posted - 2003.06.21 01:20:00 -
[50]
Just a quick thanks GM Regius - moving us to let the passari gate have some rest for 10 mins was cool, u landed us on 2 cruisers, though i imagine they were a bit annoyed to have 4 cruisers drop out of no-where. *edit - not dropped DIRECTLY on them, but in the same system*
Edited by: The Reverend on 21/06/2003 01:21:34
m0ovie links |
Price Check
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Posted - 2003.06.21 01:27:00 -
[51]
"Nice post, but most of these ppl will never get it and want to have it easy in a mmporg designed to be a tough and rewarding pvp challenge."
Let me know when there actually is 'tough and rewarding PvP challenge' for being a pirate in EVE.
Sorry to sound condescending, but its stupidly easy right now to be on the wrong side of the law. Granted, it is more than your average chimp could accomplish, but don't kid yourself into thinking there's any significant skill involved at the moment.
Jumpgate blockades are far too easy to put in place, and with trivial risk involved. Save the sales pitch on how hard they are - not everyone was born yesterday.
It takes a handful very little effort to affect tens or even hundreds. Yet the effort those tens or even hundreds have to put in to actually do pose a *significant* threat to that handful utterly pales in comparison.
That's what needs to be balanced, not some chokepoint in the universe. As easy as it is for you to impose your will on others, so too should it be for them. Doesn't matter if you're a miner, a trader, a bounty hunter, or a pirate.
Give us some kind of tools to return in kind what you can do, with little effort and ease, and things will get far more interesting for those involved.
Call my cynical, but I doubt any of the "pirates" would actually support such a change...
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Nephlite
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Posted - 2003.06.21 01:36:00 -
[52]
I must say Gauss that was a great post. There is just one hole in it, these priates, who I agree serve an important role, do so by employing some very pathatic tactics that don't enrich the game experience at all.
I mean it would be great if there was a real priate fleets going against a large corp fleet. Instead you face 150 cargo containers with, 1 unit of tritanium in them, for the express purpose of creating lag and for "camofloge."
With priates creating conditions like this, how do you expect corps to take part in epic battles to break a blockade? I mean we want epic fleet battles, not epic lag.
Almost everybody will agree priates are a good thing and serve an importantrole. Its the fact that currently most priates employ such meathods that makes them so distasteful.
Nephlite
Edited by: Nephlite on 21/06/2003 01:46:22
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Alien8
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Posted - 2003.06.21 02:36:00 -
[53]
Good point there Nephlite.
Also 1 point that everyone seems to disregard or not realise.
Support.
Who is supporting the Pirates ? How did Joghurt get his Battleship ??
Ok, i know they have lots of money...but what iŠm wondering is. Are they just a flip side of 1 of the bigger corps as i believe.
They seem to be able to get all the ships they need and might also be working to eliminate competition companies through Pirate tactics.
1 thing here, if the company that sold Joghurt his BS wouldnŠt have done that (presuming it wasnŠt their own corp) then players on BS against them in cruisers would have solved all our problems :)
Well, if it WAS their company as i believe....then the thing is to just find out which one it is and unite in boycotting all their products.
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NightKrawler
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Posted - 2003.06.21 10:30:00 -
[54]
Its not true... ALl pirating and blockading should be allowed... Its called a game anyone can do what they want... Which is why I choose to have fun in the game :) Why mine? when you can steal there ore? Why Buy stuff? when you can steal peoples stuff? Why waste time doing other things? when you could just kill someone for it and/or Bribe someone out of it because you got a bounty on yourself and demand it or be podded on sight... I must say Pirating is my life :) Im sure there are a lot of people out there saying pirating is for L0sers... Well Im sure you want to be a pirate just you cant.
"A Fool Dies many times before his death"
-Shakespeare |
Gargavar
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Posted - 2003.06.21 11:56:00 -
[55]
So there are up to 6,000 people online at once and the great majority are not pirates (I'm pretty sure...). I would think that out of all those that if pirating is a so bad that a bunch of that 6,000 could get together and take out every pirate in sight.
The pirates have the same stuff we do, if we want it.
As stated by CCP they want to phase out NPCs at some point altogether so Eve has NEVER been about using NPCs to do the players job. They must be nervous wondering why people don't organise to fight back (I have seen organisation on a very small scale but thats ineffective). No disrespect to those corps and players who do/try to hold their own of course, including the pirates. :-)
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.06.21 12:12:00 -
[56]
Alien8, in most MMOGs is works like this:
Second accounts.
Which is a bit sad as the whole aspect of economical warfare and siege is eliminated (plus it effectively makes the people who employ this 'tactic' invincible - on the long run you can't win as you can't deplete them of their funds - even if you pod-kill them in EVE repeatedly they'll simply use the time needed to train skills or buy that battleship again on their 'peacefull' accounts).
This is just a general observation BTW ;)
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