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Nuts and Bolts of Combat (probably stupid questions)

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Solo Kalone	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:04:00 - [1] Ok, im probably gonna say and ask a bunch of stupid, but after reading through several combat guides, i couldnt find any that cater to really stupid people, so here goes: 1) When i start combat, do i just hit the "orbit at" button (set to the range that is best for the weapon im using) and then switch on all weapons (and appropritate modules) once within range? 2)If i am trying to orbit at say 500m and my opponant is trying to orbit at 10,000m what happens? I am assuming that the faster, more agile ships will dictate range. 3) Once i have clicked the 'orbit at' (or keep at range') will my ship continue trying to get to the selected range forever more, or do you need to keep spamming the button? 4) Is there any point to the 'double click anywhere in space to move there' method of movement? Is this used in combat, or is it all about the 'approach', 'orbit', and 'keep at range' buttons? Any help will be great, and i apolagise if i am dragging the average IQ of the player base down the drain.
Dani SP Rupture Farms Mining	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:11:00 - [2] 1) yes 2) exact, speed sometimes wins battles :D 3) imo keep at range is useless, since orbiting function includes itself keeping at range. The keep at range could be useful for mining i.e. you want to be always next to a buddie but not orbiting him like a moron LOL 4) depends on situation. I sometimes double click or approach a random place when I do PVE.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:22:00 - [3] 1) That is one of the simple options. You can put more effort into it if for example you want to have more control over your angle of approach. IE, try that in a frigate when approaching a battleship and you probably won't make it into range, manually guiding your approach so that you maintain angular velocity will increase your chances for survival. 2) Yup, the faster ship will normally control range, but a more active pilot might be able to regain some control over angular velocity. 3) It will continue to orbit/keep-at-range until the target (or you) are destroyed. Spamming the orbit button can sometime cause your ship to become confussed as it keeps recalculating the orbital path it is going to take. This can result in undesired changes in direction and a resulting loss of angular velocity. 4) If you watch where your opponent is going you can use manual navigation to minimize/maximize angular velocity.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:29:00 - [4] Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/02/2009 16:31:08 Originally by: Dani SP 3) imo keep at range is useless, since orbiting function includes itself keeping at range. The keep at range could be useful for mining i.e. you want to be always next to a buddie but not orbiting him like a moron LOL "Keep at Range" is useful versus NPCs when you want to minimize angular velocity. If you have guns that have a hard time tracking (e.g. beams/rails/artillery) then this can be useful since it makes you go straight in/straight away. Generally the rats will be running away from you or towards you giving you a zero (or near enough) transversal and your guns blast them. Orbiting maximises your transversal (overall). As noted above this is a bad thing to do if you are in a frig versus a battleship. Those big guns will own you if they can hit you...keeping transversal high in this case is critical for survival. Which is better is, of course, situationally dependent. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 11/02/2009 16:31:08 Originally by: Dani SP 3) imo keep at range is useless, since orbiting function includes itself keeping at range. The keep at range could be useful for mining i.e. you want to be always next to a buddie but not orbiting him like a moron LOL Stuff ...or to simplify it further, use orbit if you have better tracking than your target, use keep-at-range if your target has better tracking than you do.
Solo Kalone	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:37:00 - [6] Thanks for the help guys. One more question, When in combat, does zooming right out and switching on the tactical display give much of an advantage? (im assuming it does as you can see where everything is, and helps with the whole double click to move thing) and is it worth losing the pretty pictures??
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2009.02.11 16:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Solo Kalone (im assuming it does as you can see where everything is, and helps with the whole double click to move thing) If that works for you then by all means go ahead and use it. I personally don't like the tactical display, but I do often zoom in or out to get a perspective on where everything is. Originally by: Solo Kalone and is it worth losing the pretty pictures?? Again it is a matter of personal preference. My personal preference is to see a small view of my target exploiding verses seeing a big view of me exploding.
Ka Jolo The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Solo Kalone When i start combat, do i just hit the "orbit at" button (set to the range that is best for the weapon im using) and then switch on all weapons (and appropritate modules) once within range? It depends. Since orbiting affects tracking, you need to know how important tracking is to you and to your target. If your ship tracks better than your opponent's, then orbit; he'll have a harder time hitting you than you will hitting him. But if your opponent's ship tracks better than yours, you may want to stay still to maximize your chances of hitting him. Generally, smaller turrets track better than bigger turrets. So if a frigate tackles a cruiser, the frigate might be orbiting while the cruiser tries to approach the frigate. Quote: If i am trying to orbit at say 500m and my opponant is trying to orbit at 10,000m what happens? I am assuming that the faster, more agile ships will dictate range. That's right. Hence the extreme interest PvP'ers have in microwarpdrives, afterburners, stasis webifiers, warp scramblers (they disable microwarpdrives), overdrives, nanofibers, polycarbons, etc. Quote: 3) Once i have clicked the 'orbit at' (or keep at range') will my ship continue trying to get to the selected range forever more, or do you need to keep spamming the button? No need to spam the button; your ship will keep going for the desired orbit or range until you give some conflicting navigation command or until your target is killed or leaves. Quote: Is there any point to the 'double click anywhere in space to move there' method of movement? Is this used in combat, or is it all about the 'approach', 'orbit', and 'keep at range' buttons? There are situations where it is best to use "double-click in space" navigation. Ships that are trying to break out of warp scrambler/warp disruptor range, or trying to close to stasis webifier range, for example, will often fly manually in a way that gives them a brief window of opportunity. Interceptors might steer around an asteroid that is about to drop their velocity from 5kph to 0. One ship trying to close range with another might "cut the corner" and aim for where the target ship is going to be rather than letting the navigational computer keep aiming at a moving target. These are good questions.
Navtiqes Englebarna	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:15:00 - [9] Edited by: Navtiqes on 13/02/2009 09:16:36 Originally by: Solo Kalone 4) Is there any point to the 'double click anywhere in space to move there' method of movement? Is this used in combat, or is it all about the 'approach', 'orbit', and 'keep at range' buttons? Sometimes manually steering is the only way to get in tackle range of another fast ship. On your initial approach run, it can be a good idea to use doubleclicking to go into a jousting spiral to keep angular velocity up. *Dictacting range from more than one opponent.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.02.13 13:19:00 - [10] Be advised - orbiting against a single opponent is one thing - orbiting during your average Level I mission can get you blown up. Most Level I missions consist of lots of cheap ships with short range weapons trying to swarm you. What you want to do there is: 1) Put on long range guns and a good after burner. 2) Get their agro (they start locking you) and then fly away from them. 3) Keep a good distance away from them so their short range weapons can't hurt you. 4) Shoot down your wake as they try and close, this will cut down on your angular velocity and make it easier to hit those small fast ships. This is called Kiting. The rule of thumb is: 1) If the enemy out numbers you with small, cheap ships and you have a better ship - kite them. 2) If you have one or two enemies who are in larger, more powerful ships with bigger guns then yours - orbit them. There is no Kite the enemy button though the Keep at Range button would be closest. For the most part, it is better to fly the ship yourself than to let the computer get it blown up. This doesn't mean you can't use the computer - just learn when to use it and when not to. It is unfortunate that the tutorial teaches people to orbit - when that is the wrong tactic for most new people against the NPC rats they will be immediately facing. If they're immediately confronted with another player ... they're probably going to get blown up no matter what they do. Solo PVP tends to be all about short range weapons, orbiting, webbing and warp scrambling. With PVE rats - they are stupid and will just keep mindlessly (they are AI after all) flying into your guns as you destroy them. In PVP - another human is going to try and run away if they think they are going to lose - thus warp scrambling - which doesn't have that much range, hence the close range combat. Faction Schools Orbiting vs. Kiting
girigiri	Posted - 2009.02.16 06:39:00 - [11] These replies are all quite helpful. Can I ask how are you able to tell if the ship you are facing has better or worse tracking abilty than your own?
Grods Amarr The Lone Wolves Security	Posted - 2009.02.16 10:07:00 - [12] Originally by: girigiri These replies are all quite helpful. Can I ask how are you able to tell if the ship you are facing has better or worse tracking abilty than your own? Up to a point yes you can see what weapon he has from weapon model and effects, for anything else you need ship scanner. Doesn't apply for npc's ofcourse because they dont follow our rules.
Arcelian	Posted - 2009.02.16 12:04:00 - [13] Originally by: girigiri These replies are all quite helpful. Can I ask how are you able to tell if the ship you are facing has better or worse tracking abilty than your own? Generally in missions the larger ships are going to have larger guns therefore slower tracking.

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