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Gardon Three
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:41:00 -
[1]
In the last few months I saw several capital ships trying to kill a small gang and ended by being tackled themselves. When those capital pilots realized that they were dead for sure they activated self destruct. This is not right. In a small ship is impossible to do this but in a capital ship the 2 min are more then enough to self destruct. This is not the way to play this game. We try to make a plan to trap a enemy and he self destruct. Where is here the ratio between risk and win? When a capital ship is lost u lose money (the ship value) but is a lost for your personal and corp/alliance record.
The self destruct should be changed. I have a few suggestions:
1. Make Self Destruct impossible when u are locked. 2. Make Sekf Destruct with differed time: frigate 1 min - bs 4 min - capital 15 min. 3. Make Self Destruct impossible when u have agro similar to log of agro. 4. If u Self Destruct u lose insurance.
CCP is time to do something. This is as bad as dual mwd was some time ago.
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Goonda
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:49:00 -
[2]
It sounds like a legitimate tactic to me.
I do like your option #4 though.
Kinda like burning down your own house. If someone is stealing stuff from your house and rather than letting them get away with the stuff you burn the house down. Would the insurance pay to rebuild your house?
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Apolluon
Gallente No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:52:00 -
[3]
Less QQ please.
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the rainingdeath
The humble Crew
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:54:00 -
[4]
The only one I agree with is #4 and what Goonda said.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.12 21:20:00 -
[5]
Wrong forum: try this one.
How about the simple option of logging the kill record for everyone involved in the kill even if the ship dies as a result of self-destruction?
Only a cross-reference entry to get the kill to appear in the relevant players history is needed, there is no need to duplicate all of the details in the database.
... or why is it that you care that they self-destruct, they are just as dead.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.12 21:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gardon Three Where is here the ratio between risk and win?
The opponent has lost their ship because of you. That is your victory.
Self destruct was included deliberately to allow pilots some small chance of denying their vanquishers their full measure of satisfaction. Think of it as a way of them giving you some small return on the grief you caused them.
I tacitly agree with (4) on your list (insurance fraud), and a killmail should be generated for the victors in the engagement if self-destruction occurs while aggressed by other players, but other changes are unnecessary.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:16:00 -
[7]
I agree that self destructing should generate a kill mail, given to the player who did the most damage in the fight, and credit the self destruct with the remaining. Would work fine, and would allow kill boards to show that you won.
I think that self destructing to deny a kill mail is cheap and shouldn't be facilitated. I mean, you should feel good for 'winning', but its nice to have 1) Proof and 2) Bragging rights. I mean, technically, you could see a bundle of carriers go nuts on each other, but the loosing side self destructs everything, gets 2 capital kills and the killboard reads that as a win for the other team.
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Hesod Adee
KDS Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov I agree that self destructing should generate a kill mail, given to the player who did the most damage in the fight, and credit the self destruct with the remaining. Would work fine, and would allow kill boards to show that you won.
Yes. Name and shame the people who self-destruct, see if that stops them. If it doesn't, then we can talk about changing gameplay.
Though denying insurance along with the name and shame sounds tempting. ----------------------------------------------
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hesod Adee Name and shame the people who self-destruct, see if that stops them.
If in a no-win situation, why would the person who self-destructed feel any shame?
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr Outlandish Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:29:00 -
[10]
Let's have self destructs do aoe damage depending on the ship size, make it more of a final **** you then just a way of avoiding killmails.
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RisenPhoenix
Shadowyn Corp.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: mcnuggetlol Let's have self destructs do aoe damage depending on the ship size, make it more of a final **** you then just a way of avoiding killmails.
**** yes |
Isabella Montague
Gallente RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Isabella Montague on 12/02/2009 23:49:52
Originally by: Katarlia Simov I think that self destructing to deny a kill mail is cheap and shouldn't be facilitated. I mean, you should feel good for 'winning', but its nice to have 1) Proof and 2) Bragging rights. I mean, technically, you could see a bundle of carriers go nuts on each other, but the loosing side self destructs everything, gets 2 capital kills and the killboard reads that as a win for the other team.
I don't really see how it's cheap. Seems to be functioning as intended to me. The whole point of self-destructing is to prevent your enemy from gaining something.
If you're going to grant people their kill mails, then you might as well just remove self destruct from the game since it would no longer serve a purpose anyways.
The only one I agree with is #4
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:59:00 -
[13]
Would you be upset if there were no killmail system? ------------------------------------
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.02.13 00:34:00 -
[14]
Boo hoo... I can't stroke my epeen with the killmails I'm denied from printing out and covering the walls of my mom's basement!
Self Destruct, or Scuttling, is purely designed to prevent the aggressor from walking away with your property. So whining on forums because you "worked so hard" to get someone elses gear, and you were denied the satisfaction of a little email that says "U R sew awsum. Gud 4 U!"
Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. Or better yet, bottle up those tears, because I use them to fuel my Capacitor. --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2009.02.13 00:36:00 -
[15]
CCP are talking about the T3 ships causing SP loss when you lose them, but ejecting or self destructing stopping this loss. They say in the latest dev blog this will give a reason to eject or self destruct. I really don't think self destructing needs any more incentive than it already has. For a start I think that self destructing a T3 ship should definitely not save you from the SP loss. I agree with the ejecting point though. You'll have to weigh up the benefits of it. You either eject, hope they don't notice and destroy your ship anyway, or you face losing SP (one level off a random subsystem skill, so if you have them all maxed it'll take one from a lvl 5 down to a lvl 4) or you risk them getting a free (probably very valuable) T3 ship out of it. The only saving grace is I can't imagine anything cruiser sized being able to tank for long enough to let the self destruct timer run down. Although it would make it even more annoying to lose the killmail if you had managed to beat one in a frigate, for example.
In broader terms, self destructing should pod you. When a captain goes down with his ship, he should actually go down with it. Right now there is no drawback to self destructing at all. If it podded you, and you were PVPing with expensive implants or an out of date clone, you'd stand to lose something at least. If you're even thinking of self destructing, losing the ship is irrelevant, because it was going down anyway. So if you self destruct, the only ones that lose out are the people who had beaten you. I would be happy for this to cause AoE damage though. You self destruct your ship, you lose your pod, but you might take some of them out with you (though it shouldn't be too strong) You'd also have to weigh up the consequences of doing this in highsec, as you'd take a big sec hit if you did it outside Jita 4-4 for example.
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MJ Maverick
IronPig Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.02.13 01:06:00 -
[16]
/signed
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Sir Wolfgang
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.13 01:59:00 -
[17]
#1-3 Would Not keep balance, and just seem to me your on the other end of it and do not like the feature #4 Is a good idea that should be done! You dont get money for burning down your house... Well Unless you do it right.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.13 04:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: mcnuggetlol Let's have self destructs do aoe damage depending on the ship size, make it more of a final **** you then just a way of avoiding killmails.
its not a way of avoiding killmails, if the ship self destructs, it doesn't drop loot.
that is why you self destruct. it already is a final "**** you", its denying the enemy any financial compensation for their actions.
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F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.02.13 04:34:00 -
[19]
I wish npc's would also self destruct or warp off when you break their tank.
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shi'ako
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.02.13 04:41:00 -
[20]
I do like #4, its more Real and nasty, very EvE.!
The others no itĘs a legitimate option, and needs leaving in. Though maybe a kill mail should be produced to the last person to shoot it prior to detonation? That way its only denying them loot not getting you out of the fact u messed up and lost your ship.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.13 05:50:00 -
[21]
umm please forgive my noobishness but aside from not getting a killmail what does self destructing do?
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Great Citlalicue
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Posted - 2009.02.13 06:15:00 -
[22]
Gardon,
Your suggestion (point 1 and 3) are illogical and is completely against what self destruct suppose to accomplish. Essentially you are proposing to only allow ships to self destruct when they are in no danger?
What you actually proposing is to prevent capital ships form self districting. I donĘt really care if they do or donĘt but please donĘt ask for complex solutions to simple problems.
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Kalia Masaer
Rosa Castellum
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Posted - 2009.02.13 07:31:00 -
[23]
I like the insurance fraud bit to discourage people from self destructing and it would be good to show the kill mail for some proof a ship was destroyed.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.13 10:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Typhado3 umm please forgive my noobishness but aside from not getting a killmail what does self destructing do?
*sigh* i will list everything a self destrict does, fot the ebenefit of those incapable of reathing the thread.
1. prevents loot dropping.
if you descruct your carrier, you make sure your attackers cant ge ttheir theiving little hands on those 40mil+ capital reppers/triage modules etc.
2. hides you.
the flash (and on occasion ensuing lag) of a ship going up in smoke can hide your pod emergence long enough for you to warp off. otherwise, your pod appears on grid, targettable, slightly before you are actually able to make it move, meaning interceptors can snag you before you have a chance.
distant 3. prevents your enemies epeen from growing because he doesnt get a killmail.
as you can see, it has two very big advantages to its use, but everyone is crying over the third, because apparently a text document is everything.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2009.02.13 11:19:00 -
[25]
works fine leave it alone |
H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.02.13 12:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Elaron The opponent has lost their ship because of you. That is your victory.
Self destruct was included deliberately to allow pilots some small chance of denying their vanquishers their full measure of satisfaction. Think of it as a way of them giving you some small return on the grief you caused them.
I tacitly agree with (4) on your list (insurance fraud), and a killmail should be generated for the victors in the engagement if self-destruction occurs while aggressed by other players, but other changes are unnecessary.
This.
I also once believed that self destructing was lame - but then I experienced a logoffski. Since then I think it's a very valid tactic and shows that you had at least the balls to admit that you had lost the engagement.
My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance |
Osiris Andras
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Posted - 2009.02.13 13:29:00 -
[27]
the only thing I agree with on that list is 4. People shouldn't get insurance back on something they destroyed willingly.
Also, a little splash on a self destructed ship would be nice, gives not-bob a reason to lose their titans :D
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Joe Skellington
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Posted - 2009.02.13 15:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Joe Skellington on 13/02/2009 15:09:41
Originally by: Gardon Three In the last few months I saw several capital ships trying to kill a small gang and ended by being tackled themselves. When those capital pilots realized that they were dead for sure they activated self destruct. This is not right. In a small ship is impossible to do this but in a capital ship the 2 min are more then enough to self destruct. This is not the way to play this game. We try to make a plan to trap a enemy and he self destruct. Where is here the ratio between risk and win? When a capital ship is lost u lose money (the ship value) but is a lost for your personal and corp/alliance record.
The self destruct should be changed. I have a few suggestions:
1. Make Self Destruct impossible when u are locked. 2. Make Sekf Destruct with differed time: frigate 1 min - bs 4 min - capital 15 min. 3. Make Self Destruct impossible when u have agro similar to log of agro. 4. If u Self Destruct u lose insurance.
CCP is time to do something. This is as bad as dual mwd was some time ago.
Your argument sounded good until I read what you wanted which sucks in my opinion. all they need to do is change the self destruct to be able to set your own time to destruct. Making it not able to use in lock or aggro defeats the whole purpose of Self Destruct.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.02.13 19:28:00 -
[29]
#4 is cool, agreed
For the killmail, just let do the ship damaging itself with the minimal damage required to destroy it and give the final blow to the person which dealt the most damage to it.
So if the ship is selfdestructed without being engaged it does the full damage to itself and hence the owner gets a killmail (because he did the most damage).
Would the ship selfdestruct during a fight, some damage is already dealt by the enemy, the required final damage at the countdown finish will be unlikely enough for the final blow (unless the victim initializes selfdestruct in an early stage of the fight) and hence the killmail would go to someone else but the owner.
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testalus rima
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Posted - 2009.02.13 20:10:00 -
[30]
agree with #4 -> see insurance too |
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narciasss
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Posted - 2009.04.24 17:42:00 -
[31]
I totally AGREE with marcus, cry me a flippin river if you dont like it when i self destruct my ship. Thats what i am trying to get you to do. That is the purpose when the victim has no hope to hold onto.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.24 18:05:00 -
[32]
When you self destruct, do you leave behind cargo or a wreck? I'm simply wondering. I can understand if your cargo was destroyed ... you did take measures to deny your enemy that cargo, after all. But if your wreck is also destroyed, THAT makes little sense.
As far as killmails ... meh, the game would be better off without them.
Option 4, however, makes complete sense. No insurance if you destroy your own ship. Seems perfectly logical and reasonable.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Khima
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Posted - 2009.04.24 20:38:00 -
[33]
Maybe add splash damage effect to the selfdestruction of a ship above Dreadnought, it should hit both allied and enemey ships within a radious.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.24 21:39:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Khima Maybe add splash damage effect to the selfdestruction of a ship above Dreadnought, it should hit both allied and enemey ships within a radious.
I personally think ALL ships should have splash damage on destruction, but then that would cause a significant nerf to close-range fighting.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Rommel Rottweil
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Posted - 2009.04.25 00:41:00 -
[35]
Well TBH then Removing Inshurence Payout for Selfdestructs and Criminal acts would be the best way to go. Simple and easy to understand.
If you dont want to let the enemy have the simple plesure of a killmail, then go ahead and selfdestruct and you both loose out!
Crimes dont pay! If you die after doing somthing criminal you fail and dont deserve Inshurance anyway!
If this would go through then most pilots would sacrifice the bloody km and just collect on the inshurance, if you are filthy rich and dont want show your fail fittings on KB, then goahead and selfdestruct.
Pirates, if you guys want to do indescriminate killing in high/low sec then be prepared to pay the ultimate price. T1 is cheap and make shure the target is carrying enough to cover the losses. Remeber, real Pirates dont cry on forums!!
If you loose your last ship then get in a noobship and start mining!
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.25 01:51:00 -
[36]
man i thought this 'issue' was buried. There's nothing wrong with suiciding. The character suiciding is loosing their ship, they just get to the be one that laughs about keeping you from your precious kill mails. ------------------------------------
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.25 02:18:00 -
[37]
Quote: When a capital ship is lost u lose money (the ship value) but is a lost for your personal and corp/alliance record.
stop playing by the killmail. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Shu'Kam
Caldari Noble House
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Posted - 2009.04.25 02:21:00 -
[38]
agree
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TuRtLe HeAd
KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.25 09:44:00 -
[39]
The Starship enterprise Always Activates Self Destruct in overwhelming odds.
Its to prevent technology getting into the enemies hands.
this is no Different. |
TuRtLe HeAd
KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:09:00 -
[40]
Self destructing a ship. HAS to stay.
Waaaaaaa i didnt get the kill mail.. Boo hoo... |
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Hariya
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Posted - 2009.04.26 11:14:00 -
[41]
Just remove killmails from the game and people wont mind as much when they get killed.
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.04.26 12:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hariya Just remove killmails from the game and people wont mind as much when they get killed.
Oh God Please. This is needed on so many levels. ------------------------------------
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Khima
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Posted - 2009.04.26 12:18:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Khima on 26/04/2009 12:25:57
Personaly I think putting a clamp on the self-destruction sequance would make it more feasble. You need 100% cap, 80% hull HP (hull is the ship structure itself) and no modules that activly drain cap. It would just make more sence that you'd need your capacitor at full power in order for it to overload.
It would't make any kind of sence for your ship to carry around a bomb just so it could selfdestruct, what if it misfired or something?
And in addition to the splash damage thing, it would't make any kind of sence why it should do damage to people around you unless it aucttly had the energy to do so. Imagen the reactor in a friget or a cruiser, its just can't create a big enough blast for it to be usefull. Hence why it should be dreadnought & above. The reactor simply is a whole lot bigger, carrys more fuel & is more powerfull.
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.04.26 16:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gardon Three
CCP is time to do something. This is as bad as dual mwd was some time ago.
Having to forge killmails is as bad as 500,000m/s crows?
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