| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Abundant Cachet
   |
Posted - 2009.02.13 06:57:00 -
[1]
I like the range and visceral feel of artillery, but I notice in all the recommended setups I see here or in EON magazine, for example, that autocannons are always present, nobody seems to use artillery. Is it that inferior to autocannons? I understand the practical differences between the two, what I'm really asking is: is there some kind of consensus that arty sucks and autocannons are the de facto standard? I'd like to hear opinions with respect to both PvE and PvP. Thanks.
|
Mal Lokrano
Gallente
Faulcon de Lazy
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 07:39:00 -
[2]
autocannons are liked in pvp as pvp tends to be mid to short range affairs, not usually going more than 40km except in long range fleet warfare. Small group pvp is short range buisness typically and as such requires autocannons to be mostly effective. Artys can be used in pvp but mainly in mid to long range battles, and you will need small ship support to take on those small ships that get to close for your tracking
Now in missions artys can be effective as they can pop off the npc ships as they are coming at you, however once they get within a certain range the tracking will make good hits more difficult, especially for smaller targets than what your guns are designed to hit. This is when drones can be helpful on some ships. This also means autocannons can be used in pve but since most enemies will vary in range that they orbit, you will have difficulty with targets that like to orbit at between 30-50km range.
Now being a hybrid user myself that is just the general consensus i get with most long vs. short range weapons. personally i like the arty's outright power with single shot and yet use no cap, however they are slow to fire and use plenty of powergrid. Autocannons are good as well but as i have little experience with them i cannot say which one is better.
____________________________________________
When going to a party with wine, women, and song. Always acertain the vintage of the first two. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 07:42:00 -
[3]
In PvE artillery is fine. This is because you can get all the hostiles to fly to you in a straight line. This negates the downsides of artillery, except the low DPS. It is useable in PvE anyway. It is also used in fleet battles, since it's the only option really available for minmatar pilots. It has horrible DPS since you fight in falloff and has bad tracking, low rate of fire and low clip size. It used to be much better because it has big alpha damage, but that has lost most of its importance in todays combat.
Artillery isn't totally useless, but someone else will have to do the tackling then, if we are talking about the bigger artillery. In smaller ships it can be useful, because it allows you to stay out of webbing/scram range. Artillery will seem weaker, if you compare it with the other turret systems. If you are minmatar, you will just have to know its weak points and try to adjust accordingly. If you want to specialize in long range combat, you might want to start crosstraining though.
Autocannons on the other hand have wonderful tracking and high rate-of-fire. They still fight at falloff, so the DPS isn't that good. It is still a lot better than artillery in most PvP situations, since PvP usually happens at ranges where the artillery can't track the targets that well. Minmatar ships don't tank that well compared to other races, so you will have to use range and speed to compensate. Autocannons fit very well to this tactic.
Take notice that the shorter range variant is preferred in most PvP situations in all turret based weapon systems. This is just because you usually have to be pretty close to the target to prevent it from escaping. Since you are forced to those close ranges, you might as well use the weapons best suited for it.
|
Abundant Cachet
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 02:16:00 -
[4]
Makes sense, and is more or less what I expected to hear. We are still playing primarily PvE, but that will change at some point, so I might as well start getting used to autocannons now.
Thanks guys
|
Promii
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:46:00 -
[5]
How does artillery compare to the other long range weapons; beams and rails? Does it do less dps simply due to the whole fighting in falloff business?
|
Kesha Cachet
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:11:00 -
[6]
Why is it that speed demons like Vagabonds are still outfitting autocannons when they are more able to maintain range and get the higher damage output of artillery? A well fit Vaga with MWD should be able to keep distance outside of web range and maintain a steady stream of high damage, no? Why isn't this setup more popular?
|
Jade Vendetta
Gallente
The Babylon5 Consortuim
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:49:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Kesha Cachet
Why is it that speed demons like Vagabonds are still outfitting autocannons when they are more able to maintain range and get the higher damage output of artillery? A well fit Vaga with MWD should be able to keep distance outside of web range and maintain a steady stream of high damage, no? Why isn't this setup more popular?
Sure, they can dictate range, but as most vagabonds fits speedtank to some degree, they also need to keep a relatively high angular velocity to their opponents. This in turn makes the woeful tracking of artillery unsuited for them.
|
Abundant Cachet
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 20:46:00 -
[8]
So, once again, it appears that artillery has little purpose and small, fast-tracking autocannons are the way to go. EVE has always seemed to me to be a game where there were limited no-brainer setups, and every option had general viability. Yet everywhere I look, I see autocannons recommended and never artillery. Artillery seems to be one of those niche setups for the dedicated distance gang member. Ok, point taken. Thanks.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jade Vendetta
Originally by: Kesha Cachet
Why is it that speed demons like Vagabonds are still outfitting autocannons when they are more able to maintain range and get the higher damage output of artillery? A well fit Vaga with MWD should be able to keep distance outside of web range and maintain a steady stream of high damage, no? Why isn't this setup more popular?
Sure, they can dictate range, but as most vagabonds fits speedtank to some degree, they also need to keep a relatively high angular velocity to their opponents. This in turn makes the woeful tracking of artillery unsuited for them.
these days it is more of a gtfo tank, but yea 
|
Viikuna
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 23:43:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Viikuna on 14/02/2009 23:43:42
I'm doing better with 650MM artillery than i do with 220, 180 or 200(small) Autocannons in L2 mission currently.
Might be my skills, might be that i just suck. Hitting a volley of 450dmg every 6 seconds with 27+18 range is nice. Just need to train some more missile skills to get the range of my 2 launchers into similar levels and i'll be doing even more dmg :)
|
|
|
Vex Cachet
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 17:41:00 -
[11]
I don't know, I've tried both and, when it comes to PvE, there's no contest, Artillery is much better for mission running. I have over 2.5m SP in Gunnery, with both Autocannon and Artillery Specialization, top-notch Navigation skills with well-fitted loadouts and I've interchanged Tech II guns of both types and all ammo types many times, and there's no question about it: with Autocannons I struggle to get through missions up close and dirty. With Artillery they pop like flies from a distance and I control the battles completely. Battles are almost too easy with Artillery.
The only advantage that I see for autocannons is that in PvP the battles are up close and personal and tracking speed and tactics become critical, something that Artillery isn't well suited for. That's why ultimately I spec'd in both. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 18:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Abundant Cachet
So, once again, it appears that artillery has little purpose and small, fast-tracking autocannons are the way to go. EVE has always seemed to me to be a game where there were limited no-brainer setups, and every option had general viability. Yet everywhere I look, I see autocannons recommended and never artillery. Artillery seems to be one of those niche setups for the dedicated distance gang member. Ok, point taken. Thanks.
Everything being viable doesn't mean that nothing is preferred. YOU WILL NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, play a game where some strategy/fitting/unit/whatever isn't preferred. In EVE, short range setups are popular. This is not to say that long range boats aren't as good, but they're just not as popular among the community as a whole.
Of course minmatar take this to the extremes, as the minmatar fighting style pretty much suggests autos in most situations. This is not to say some ships don't use artillery often (Cyclone is a good example).
Extremes suck. On one extreme, you have only one "cookie cutter" ship/fitting that's worth flying, and that sucks. But the other extreme (Virtually any setup is viable) sucks just as bad because then it DOESN'T MATTER what you fit. EVE lies in the middle. There are a crapton of viable setups for any ship (Go to the S&M forum), but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to slap, for example, gyros and tachyon lasers on a Rokh.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 00:43:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Viikuna
Edited by: Viikuna on 14/02/2009 23:43:42
I'm doing better with 650MM artillery than i do with 220, 180 or 200(small) Autocannons in L2 mission currently.
Might be my skills, might be that i just suck. Hitting a volley of 450dmg every 6 seconds with 27+18 range is nice. Just need to train some more missile skills to get the range of my 2 launchers into similar levels and i'll be doing even more dmg :)
right but with 220s you could probably hit for 275 every 3 seconds, but at a much lower range.
that said pvp is usually about short range, where in a mission things will likely be orbiting at farther ranges where using ac is very inefficient (aside from maybe a varg with dual falloff rigs) .
|
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 00:52:00 -
[14]
I like the machine gun sound effects of autocannons, that's why I prefer them. Of course, all minmatar weapons have pretty good sound effects.
.............
Starbreaker Frigateers - life on the edge |
Johann Callasan
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 01:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Promii
How does artillery compare to the other long range weapons; beams and rails? Does it do less dps simply due to the whole fighting in falloff business?
That, and the fact that artillery firing speed took a hit a while back, so the ROF is much lower than rails or beans witht he same level of Rapid Firing.
Fighting in falloff = more frequent misses; low ROF means that proportionately you lose more of your DPS per miss than you would with a much more rapidly-firing weapon.
Supposedly projectile ammo was supposed to be the highest-damage ammo in the game to compensate; somewhere that got lost along the way, and we have the current situation.
|
Johann Callasan
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 01:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Abundant Cachet
So, once again, it appears that artillery has little purpose and small, fast-tracking autocannons are the way to go. EVE has always seemed to me to be a game where there were limited no-brainer setups, and every option had general viability. Yet everywhere I look, I see autocannons recommended and never artillery. Artillery seems to be one of those niche setups for the dedicated distance gang member. Ok, point taken. Thanks.
That's true ONLY if you consider the PvP aspect of the game.
Artillery are perfectly viable to PvE, which is where you really make your ISK. There, range is king as you don't want to get swarmed by the rats unless you're rediculously overtanked.. and artys can take 'em out at range, even with their slow ROF.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 03:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Johann Callasan
Originally by: Promii
How does artillery compare to the other long range weapons; beams and rails? Does it do less dps simply due to the whole fighting in falloff business?
That, and the fact that artillery firing speed took a hit a while back, so the ROF is much lower than rails or beans witht he same level of Rapid Firing.
Fighting in falloff = more frequent misses; low ROF means that proportionately you lose more of your DPS per miss than you would with a much more rapidly-firing weapon.
Supposedly projectile ammo was supposed to be the highest-damage ammo in the game to compensate; somewhere that got lost along the way, and we have the current situation.
rate of fire is lower yes, but alpha strike is higher, dps comes out rather similar.
with artys you can usually fight in optimal. it will hurt acs more.
was it now? I don't remember reading that anywhere. I always thought it was more balanced on range and tracking. oh and don't forget that projectiles can do a variety of damages and are capless.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 03:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Johann Callasan
Originally by: Abundant Cachet
So, once again, it appears that artillery has little purpose and small, fast-tracking autocannons are the way to go. EVE has always seemed to me to be a game where there were limited no-brainer setups, and every option had general viability. Yet everywhere I look, I see autocannons recommended and never artillery. Artillery seems to be one of those niche setups for the dedicated distance gang member. Ok, point taken. Thanks.
That's true ONLY if you consider the PvP aspect of the game.
Artillery are perfectly viable to PvE, which is where you really make your ISK. There, range is king as you don't want to get swarmed by the rats unless you're rediculously overtanked.. and artys can take 'em out at range, even with their slow ROF.
arty is also useful for snipe ships.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |