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xxxak
Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: xxxak on 13/02/2009 21:18:47
So 99% of the time I PvP in EvE. But getting sick of buying GTCs, I figured I would try to do some trade.
I bought about 150 mil Isk worth of large T2 guns and moved them 9 jumps to a system where they were much more expensive.
Well, I log in 10 hours later and notice that the other guy is now selling for 100k under my price. So I am now selling for 100k under his price. Before too long, however, I will lose my profit margin if this little price war keeps up.
Anything I can do about it other than use my higher income in RL to buy enough GTCs to buy every module of this type in the game to drive up prices?
PS. I realize that T2 large guns are not the best place to start with the market. I have other investments in cheaper mods that are going better.
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Synex
Gallente Oursulaert Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:33:00 -
[2]
Welcome to the other side of PvP in Eve... Market PVP. |
xxxak
Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:35:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Synex Welcome to the other side of PvP in Eve... Market PVP.
Most other forms of PvP have more than one counter, such as ECM or Warp Stabs or a Web..
Is there any counter to this other than throwing more isk at the problem or doing better research? |
Drakus
Minmatar Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:39:00 -
[4]
theres nothing you can do to counter this really.
All ya can do is be online more then they are Undercut them by a lower margin (keeping your profits up) or Undercutting them so much they don't feel its worth there time... but in doing that you risk them buying all your stock and relisting higher... diversify - don't just sell t2 large guns, sell the meds, the smalls, ammo, rigs, ANYTHING that makes a profit, that way if you get into a pricewar on one item you can make up the profit somewhere else.
there are no "counters" in this part of the game. It more paitence and the ability to spot a deal :) |
rubico1337
Caldari nefarious badgers inc
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: xxxak
Originally by: Synex Welcome to the other side of PvP in Eve... Market PVP.
Most other forms of PvP have more than one counter, such as ECM or Warp Stabs or a Web..
Is there any counter to this other than throwing more isk at the problem or doing better research?
eve is a true free market, youll only make money if you undercut him, or you buy up all the stock in region and sell it for 175% above the average and hope no other traders notice it for a couple days before they move in and undercut you |
720
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Posted - 2009.02.13 21:54:00 -
[6]
Originally by: xxxak
Well, I log in 10 hours later and notice that the other guy is now selling for 100k under my price. So I am now selling for 100k under his price. Before too long, however, I will lose my profit margin if this little price war keeps up.
So don't do that. Undercut him by 0.01. If you drop your price in increments of 100K, each time he does, your profit drops 200K. If you drop it 0.01 each time he does, your profit only drops 100K and 1/2 cents.
I think you already hit the nail on the head about more research, diversifying and, this is key, updating your orders more often than your trade opponents. I update most of my orders three times a day, before work, after work and before bed, that tends to keep things moving, even if it is a lot of work. Also, as you buy always check what the item is selling for, keep and eye on deals to be had.
Keep and eye on volume, if there are only a few of an item in the region (or within 5 jumps) it may be worth buying them all and reselling higher (this happens frequently with Frigates and shuttles).
Research and Time are key. Money, surprisingly, is less important, it comes if you have enough of the former. |
Induc
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Posted - 2009.02.13 22:10:00 -
[7]
Remember that he probably also want to get as much profit out of the items as possible, he can't keep going lower forever either or he'll lose his profit margin too.
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nether void
Caldari Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.13 22:10:00 -
[8]
If you don't plan on getting him to go way down and then buying him out, it never helps to undercut by more than 0.01 ISK. --------------------
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2009.02.13 22:24:00 -
[9]
Basically you thrown yourself into the traders game..
Learning by doing is commendable, but if you need a few pointers drop by the lounge and chat up some of the MDs..
scc-lounge that is..
scc-lounge thread |
ZenSun
Total Mayhem.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:38:00 -
[10]
He can be manipulating you until you lower your prices so much that he can buy all of your products and resell them somewhere else for a better price. Baiting <3
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Alty MacAlterson
Alt Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.17 03:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ZenSun He can be manipulating you until you lower your prices so much that he can buy all of your products and resell them somewhere else for a better price. Baiting <3
I, too, remember the Ferrogel bubble.
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: nether void If you don't plan on getting him to go way down and then buying him out, it never helps to undercut by more than 0.01 ISK.
I have forced the price just over the refining point, then when they drop it, I buy it all up and refine and sell the minerals.
So there is a reason to force the price down and yes I know not everyone would do this but watch his orders and look at the times he logs on and changes the orders so you know when he will be back on to update his orders.
Originally by: Hexxx Congratulations to him for having two brains cells to rub together and give himself a tingling sensation.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.17 04:35:00 -
[13]
Wouldn't a counter to this technique would be selling it to a trader? Meaning that you take a bulk of item from one region, move it to another region and sell it to a trader who would be willing to take it off your hand for a certain cut.
Blueprint Store |
Petyr Baelich
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2009.02.17 05:05:00 -
[14]
My advice is that there is a lot of bad advice in this thread.
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:08:00 -
[15]
Edited by: SencneS on 17/02/2009 15:10:05 You can use the marketing triangle.
I assume the buy was an opportunity buy in a one region, or at least a buy in a region that has the cheaper prices all the time.
The Triangle works like this.
Region 1) The supply triangle - Where you get your stuff. Let say it's for 100 isk.
Region 2) The high priced region - Where you can make the most ISK, re-selling the item.
Region 3) The back up - The region that sell it's higher then Region 1, but is not nearly as attractive as Region 2.
Find out how much Region 3 is selling the item for, lets say it's 108isk.
This is going to screw Region 2's prices but it works well if you just want to get rid of the item.
In R2, go to the hub and place a buy order for 105.84 (region 3 price * 0.98), with a quantity by that is equal to the amount that is sold in Region 1 over a week. Lets say that is 350 (50 a day), make sure you place a per sale quantity of at least 10 (1/5th of Region 1's daily sales).
Place 3/5th your stock on the market for 105.85, and the rest for 110 or the next cheapest amount.
You've now preventing the under cutter from undercutting. If he fills you're buy order, just take that stock and go to Region 3 and and sell for 107.99. :)
I should point out this is an ass-hat thing to do. You'll be effectively kill Region 2's prices. However it all depends on what your objective is, to capture the entire market, or just screw over the under cutter.
Amarr for Life |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:36:00 -
[16]
The other sometimes overlooked option is just not just play the game at all if its a fast moving item. There are a number of items I put on market at the price I want to sell them at. I may not move them that day, or the following, but at some point during my production week cycle they will move.
Also if you do plan on forcing the price down to near base cost and then rebuying and relisting, keep in mind how hard/easy it is to import that item or build more.
I'll give an example since I just moved all my stock out of it. Assault frigates.
In quite a few regions I produced a few from invention and started price wars to get the price down close to 17m to 19m. I then sunk excess capital into buying the entire region's supply and relisting them. And not relisting all of them in the same location either, I purposely only relisted limited amounts and moved the rest to different regions at those higher price as well to discourage people from importing into my region and screwing with my new prices.
Rinse and repeat the same thing across 4 regions and the net effect is most assault frigs are now actually listing around 22m to 26m depending on where you go.
Did the same thing with HACs as well.
Now bear in mind, the price would have corrected to this anyway because of the ferro freak out. I just help speed things along and made sure I was the one riding the profit wave for them. |
Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.02.17 15:45:00 -
[17]
I suggest you use your higher income (whatever you mean with that is a mystery) to buy gazillion GTC's! ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved. |
Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:17:00 -
[18]
/Me wants the ability to buy from someone other than the lowest listed so that I can punish the .01 isk warriors. Quite frankly it wouldn't hurt my feelings to pay .01 extra just to buy fromt he original price
Same thing on buy orders... I'd sacrifice .01 isk income to stick it to them too
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SencneS
Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz /Me wants the ability to buy from someone other than the lowest listed so that I can punish the .01 isk warriors. Quite frankly it wouldn't hurt my feelings to pay .01 extra just to buy fromt he original price
Same thing on buy orders... I'd sacrifice .01 isk income to stick it to them too
You have no idea how much I would love this added to the game. I want actually want the ability to give discounts to my + standing friends.
If you have +10 to me, you get a 3% discount on anything on the market.
If you have -10 to me, you pay a surcharge of 3%.. Market PVP to the MAX!
That way I'd just mark every 0.01 isk under cutter at some random number between -10 and -0.01. That way any market orders don't goto them, they come to me! ;)
That's just a pipe dream, I would much much much rather the ability to buy from whom I choose, If I want to pay a little more. or sell it for a little less just to screw with the 0.01 under cutters I will.
Amarr for Life |
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